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GrampaStyle

a newcomer question

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I am new to the game so please take it easy on any responses.  Why is it that no one comes to the aid of teammates under fire in this game?  Instead I see them circling an already occupied base (even when the enemy team occupies more), refusing to fire their guns, and refusing to move in order to cover open flanks?  I am getting melted a lot cause I just can't, for one, watch as a friendly is getting overwhelmed and do nothing about it, to at lest try to help even if it means going down fighting.  I mean what is the point of the focus being solely on capping if your team sinks one by one? 

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It's kind of an impossible question to answer, Gramps.  there are a lot of reasons, from poor situational awareness, low skill, just goofing around...

Instead, some advice for you  -  just because you don't see much, or get much, help, doesn't mean you should stop trying to help.  A lack of teamwork means nobody is helping anybody - but, if you try to help, that IS teamwork, and you are improving things a little.

So, if the team is losing on points,there's often no point to guarding the cap you do have,  but by sinking ships, you can buy time to correct the point imbalance.  That is, you gain points sinking a red, while they lose points for losing a ship.  That might buy enough time to win.

Always watch the mini-map, get an idea of how the battle is flowing, always be ready to get to where you can be more effective.

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7 minutes ago, GrampaStyle said:

I am new to the game so please take it easy on any responses.  Why is it that no one comes to the aid of teammates under fire in this game?  Instead I see them circling an already occupied base (even when the enemy team occupies more), refusing to fire their guns, and refusing to move in order to cover open flanks?  I am getting melted a lot cause I just can't, for one, watch as a friendly is getting overwhelmed and do nothing about it, to at lest try to help even if it means going down fighting.  I mean what is the point of the focus being solely on capping if your team sinks one by one? 

Unfortunately, because in random battles, the teams are made up of 12 random people on a side. Some will do teamwork, but most do not.

 

Welcome to the game. Check out the new player forum for interesting guides. We tend to be a pretty friendly bunch, but there are jerks in every group.

:Smile_honoring:

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Welcome Newbie  I'm one of the so called jerks

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Welcome to the game. I hope that your experience so far, hasn't been a hard one. As to why there is no cooperation between allies, I ask that same question, every time I get into a match. Best solution is to say that you are willing to work with people at the beginning of the match and stick with them. Tell them when you are pushing, but don't go to hard on the chat, as it often can leave you typing when you are getting fired upon.

 

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Just now, KURT_WOLFF said:

Welcome Newbie  I'm one of the so called jerks

I haven't seen you be a jerk. I'm talking about the people that stat shame and put other people down for having an opinion. Or the ones that jump all over an innocent question.

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5 minutes ago, Nukelavee45 said:

It's kind of an impossible question to answer, Gramps.  there are a lot of reasons, from poor situational awareness, low skill, just goofing around...

Instead, some advice for you  -  just because you don't see much, or get much, help, doesn't mean you should stop trying to help.  A lack of teamwork means nobody is helping anybody - but, if you try to help, that IS teamwork, and you are improving things a little.

So, if the team is losing on points,there's often no point to guarding the cap you do have,  but by sinking ships, you can buy time to correct the point imbalance.  That is, you gain points sinking a red, while they lose points for losing a ship.  That might buy enough time to win.

Always watch the mini-map, get an idea of how the battle is flowing, always be ready to get to where you can be more effective.

Bravo! Excellent response.

I would apply this advice to all players, not just newcomers.

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If I see a ship that has pushed farther than he should and trying to help him will put me at risk, and he's likely going to die, I'm not going to help him. 

If he's going to die anyways, but I can engage the enemy without great risk to myself, I'm going to be helping, if I'm in a spot where I'm not at great risk, I'll likely be engaging whether or not a team mate needs help or not. 

But there is absolutely no reason for me to go get myself killed for someone else who is undoubtedly going to die. Then instead of my team being down 1 ship they are now down 2.

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Why don't players come to the aid of other players? There are several reasons, you are too far from them to help and they are already engaged themselves are the most likely reasons. Other reasons include tunnel vision so they don't even realize that someone needs help and yes, being self centered donkeys.

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Thanks guys. I guess I have to stick closer to my team, and not get deleted so quickly, yet still aid a guy who is trying make it difficult for the enemy to flank.    Thank-you all for being patient with an FNG like me.

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With that many battles you are possibly still in protected newbie matchmaking up to tier 4 ships.  If you are in tier 5/6, then many players are still newer in those tiers as well.

One thing to keep in mind is that WoWS has a strategic pacing to it that similar games do not.  It's very hard to reposition certain ships safely or with any hurry.

You may need help, but depending on you and the map it's not going to get there.  Overextending is a hard habit to break.

 

 

Edited by FlakKnight

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8 minutes ago, GrampaStyle said:

Thanks guys. I guess I have to stick closer to my team, and not get deleted so quickly, yet still aid a guy who is trying make it difficult for the enemy to flank.    Thank-you all for being patient with an FNG like me.

You are welcome. Feel free to ask questions. There are a few that might jump on you for a question that has been asked many times before, but most everyone here is really nice.

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25 minutes ago, GrampaStyle said:

I am new to the game so please take it easy on any responses.  Why is it that no one comes to the aid of teammates under fire in this game?  Instead I see them circling an already occupied base (even when the enemy team occupies more), refusing to fire their guns, and refusing to move in order to cover open flanks?  I am getting melted a lot cause I just can't, for one, watch as a friendly is getting overwhelmed and do nothing about it, to at lest try to help even if it means going down fighting.  I mean what is the point of the focus being solely on capping if your team sinks one by one? 

Team play or the lack of is a common source of complaints in this forum. Two valid reasons not to help is the distances and the number of red ships you are facing. I suggest you stay within range of support and never expect anyone to come to your aid. I've had a few DD's lay smoke screens to protect my heavily damaged BB while repair party did its work but this is rare.

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45 minutes ago, GrampaStyle said:

I am new to the game so please take it easy on any responses.  Why is it that no one comes to the aid of teammates under fire in this game?  Instead I see them circling an already occupied base (even when the enemy team occupies more), refusing to fire their guns, and refusing to move in order to cover open flanks?  I am getting melted a lot cause I just can't, for one, watch as a friendly is getting overwhelmed and do nothing about it, to at lest try to help even if it means going down fighting.  I mean what is the point of the focus being solely on capping if your team sinks one by one? 

Hey, brother! Welcome to the forums!

I am going to be honest here, but nothing that follows is meant as disrespect to you. It is simply a sincere attempt to give you a straight answer, one player to another.

I note that other than the Massachusetts, a T8 BB, your highest tier ship is T3. At lower tiers there are a lot of players still struggling with game mechanics. How do I zoom in and out? Which button fires? There is a way to fire all guns at once? What is that flashy thing on my screen and that soun- Oh, I just got hit by a torpedo! How do I shoot down planes? How do I navigate around this island withou- damn... I just crashed into an island. You get the idea. For players still in that phase of learning the game, tactics and situational awareness are generally not yet on the table. Even if they understand the concepts, trying to apply them while learning game mechanics like knowing what the information on the mini-map and main screen are telling you constantly is pretty overwhelming.

In your Massachusetts, if you are experiencing this, I think there are two explanations that are most likely. The first is that there are quite a few terrible players in any free-to-play online game and WoWS is no exception. And even the worst of players can, by just continuing to play, eventually end up with high-tier ships. I might fall into that category myself. And the second is that there is a surprising complexity to this game that is covered by a veneer of arcade game simplicity. And if you have less than fifty games in tiers 1 through 3, then jump into a T8 ship that requires a lot of game knowledge and (arguably) a highly trained and specialized ships' captain to make proper use of, it is very unlikely that you know enough about the game (detection ranges, spotting mechanics, when to use HE or AP, how to avoid torpedoes, making use of the mini-map, positioning on any given map, etc.) to be effective and that your own lack of experience with the game might be creating a false impression of your team mates. In other words, they may be doing the smart thing in many cases, while you are not, but you might not have the experience with the game to recognize that. Your average damage in the Massachusetts is roughly one third that of the server average, which suggests that you have not yet really gained a handle on some important things about the game, the ship, or both. Your team mates may very well be aware of and seeing things that you are not. Not in every case, to be sure. But given your relative inexperience with the game, it is probable that most players will have a bit more "big picture" understanding of the game than you likely currently do.

There are some great community contributors that post up very helpful and informative Youtube videos ranging from general game knowledge to "how-to" play a particular ship to maximum advantage. If you have not already done so, allow me to respectfully suggest that you type in "WoWS Massachusetts" and watch some videos made by very experienced players about the strengths and weaknesses of the ship. I think most of us here will agree this is a great way to learn more.

And finally, I really encourage you to return to tier three and to work your way through the ship tech tree, one tier at a time. This can be done deeply (pick one nation and one ship type and climb up that ladder) or broadly (many nations and many ship types, working slowly up multiple directions at once) as you like, of course. I think a slow and broad-based approach to the game is the best teacher, personally, for what that is worth.

Whatever you decide, I wish you many hours of enjoyment here playing the game!

Respects,

Am

 

Edited by Amracil

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Go to YouTube and look up how to enable replays, if you haven't already. Then send them to @Lord_Zath, who will give you inestimable help with your game. He does a weekly replay stream on Twitch from 1pm CST most weeks, and he has about 300 games that people have sent to him already up and analysed on YouTube.

In this way you will see replays in a wide variety of ships, sent in by players ranging from the expert (not like me) to the somewhat mediocre (exactly like me) and occasionally downright hopeless (sometimes what I am), discover what mistakes they made, and hopefully avoid making them yourself. But ultimately there is no substitute for practice and getting familiarity with the way a ship handles and its guns and/or torpedoes work.

 

Best of luck in the game.

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Another reason to withhold fire is to remain concealed, if (for example) a ship is capturing the enemy base it is best if it remains concealed, so the enemy cannot shoot it and therefore reset the capturing action. In this example, the allied getting shot is actually distracting the enemy from looking for you, and hopefully dragging them away from you.

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Your attitude of helping teammates is great and will be widely applauded.

That being said, just yesterday there was a tragedy where 6 rescue divers tried to save a swimmer in a whirlpool and everyone died.  Sometimes you simply can't help someone without risking your own ship, and that is a legitimate reason to stay "dark."  Dark means staying undetected, not firing.  It often can be better to save your ship and live, to fight later in the match from a different position.

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There are also limited options in the game to come to the aid of a player in distress.  Unless I can physically interpose my BB between you and who is shooting it, and be so close that they can't shoot you anymore, the only thing I can possibly do is put fire in whoever is shooting you, and due to how durable ships are that is not likely to make a difference in your survival.  DDs and some cruisers can lay smoke to cover you, but you need to cease fire to take advantage of that.

Sticking closer to allies is a good start as is checking out videos by people like flamu, notser, iChasegaming and even, with a grain of salt, Mighty Jingles (his more recent videos are much stronger on accurate tactics).

LittleWhiteMouse does excellent text/picture reviews of premium ships.  Here is the link to the thread with all of them:

Here  is the link to her review of the Massachusetts:

 

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16 minutes ago, Amracil said:

I note that other than the Massachusetts, a T8 BB, your highest tier ship is T3.

As an inexperienced player, you will get absolutely crushed at Tier 8.  I know you spent good money on the Mass, but you will enjoy it a lot more if you gain experience at the lower tiers first and work your way up slowly.  Up to Tier 4 is considered "low tier" and once you touch Tier 5 it gets significantly harder in the "middle tiers."  Then it gets harder again at T8, which is considered "high tier."  If you want a Premium Battleship to play with, look at the Mikasa (Tier 2, $12) or Ishizuchi (Tier 4, $14)

Edited by n00bot

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Welcome, Gramps!

I feel your pain, went 2-10 yesterday. It seems that most of my teams were all going in one direction, leaving a flank open. So I guarded the open flank, and of course being alone that did not end well for me. I was hoping the mass push on the other side would break through, and mostly it didn't. Thing is, I didn't let it get me down - I knew I was going to suffer, but I just looked at it as away to improve my WASD skills. Take the good, forget the bad, learn from each game, and just have fun.

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Welcome Gramps!  You've got a great ship in the Massachusetts, but you need to check out articles on how to spec your captain.  He'll be unique from most if not all of your other BB's.  You won't get the most out of this ship until you have 14 points in your captain, and really 19 points.  Hang in there, its a great game, and be sure to check out coop and operations modes.

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1 hour ago, GrampaStyle said:

I am new to the game so please take it easy on any responses.  Why is it that no one comes to the aid of teammates under fire in this game?  Instead I see them circling an already occupied base (even when the enemy team occupies more), refusing to fire their guns, and refusing to move in order to cover open flanks?  I am getting melted a lot cause I just can't, for one, watch as a friendly is getting overwhelmed and do nothing about it, to at lest try to help even if it means going down fighting.  I mean what is the point of the focus being solely on capping if your team sinks one by one? 

Basically it boils down to Survival Mentality.  Safety in numbers.  If I'm with 3 ships and I see a lone friendly ship?  Well depending on my direction it might take a long time to turn around towards him.  Then the speed factor, can I close in and be of help before he's sunk?  Most when they see a lone ship automatically assume he's done something wrong and is lacking in the skill department, so why go help that one guy all alone who probably won't be able to help me in return?  Then add in experience.  Many have tried to do this and you run into two outcomes usually:

  1. He dies before you get close enough.  Rest of your team has balled up and now you're the one out of position and alone and will be getting picked apart by the enemies who just took out that lone ship.
  2. You take the focus of the enemy team allowing the lone ship to go dark and escape.  He goes and joins the ball of friendlies and doesn't assist and now you've simply traded your ship for his in the bad situation. 

Not saying this happens every time, but happens enough to make an impact in players minds.  Same reason you see many reluctant to push a flank even with superior numbers and odds.  Too many times people have begun the push with 5 ships, and now find themselves the lone ship at the front of the attack while everyone else instead of steaming forward, has begun turning away and opening the distance. 

 

Basic way to counter this is communication and map pinging.  You've got a number of people on your team who don't know who they can and can't rely on for support, it's the nature of matchmaking and being grouped with a bunch of strangers.  But if someone is calling the battle and asking for assistance, trying to put a plan together, it tends to make others at ease and more prone to help.  If someone is saying I'm going to push and could use help, well, whoever is near now know that they will have backup as well.  Tends to make people realize they won't be left out to dry by at least one other person on the team.  If you've got 5 ships on the flank and two of them think that you're going to help, add in your ship?  Well now three out of five are pushing and the two who might be reluctant to go in and push now fall prey to the Survival Mentality and safety in numbers and will want to stay with the group. 

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1 hour ago, GrampaStyle said:

I am new to the game so please take it easy on any responses.  Why is it that no one comes to the aid of teammates under fire in this game?  Instead I see them circling an already occupied base (even when the enemy team occupies more), refusing to fire their guns, and refusing to move in order to cover open flanks?  I am getting melted a lot cause I just can't, for one, watch as a friendly is getting overwhelmed and do nothing about it, to at lest try to help even if it means going down fighting.  I mean what is the point of the focus being solely on capping if your team sinks one by one? 

Answer is really complicated since some players can be a little clueless about things, but others will still try to do teamwork when possible. And that includes sometimes letting 1 allied ship be sunk in exchange for several enemy ships or saving the rest of the allied ships. That is often a question of what comes to mind when a ship should is in trouble is how far away the allied ship is, what the map terrain is, how much of the enemy fleet might be there? Since let’s say an allied ship will be sunk before I can reach them and they had say 5 enemy ships surrounding them, if I rush over it could result in 2 of us losr or 3-4 if 2-3 ships followed me to try to assist.

Now have I helped cover for a retreating allied ship or even distracted  or sunk their attackers, yes many times since I enjoy being a team player, but as I said I often will think of the team as a whole. Since if I rush to aid 1 ship I may abandon couple other ships that are depending on me to escort them.

Now if I am the one in need of aid I will not request aid unless I know it will benefit the team since I don’t want allied ships to sail into a trap. Instead I may try to excale or if escape is impossible I will see how much pain I can inflict on enemy in exchange for  my ship. Have launched cruiser torpedoes before I died in one battle and sank 4 enemy ships that had surrounded me. While not the most optimal outcome, it was still acceptable.

As for  sailing around in a captured base they may of course be clueless of course, but other reasons are there may be some enemy ships nearby that you did not see that need to be dealt with, or maybe Battleships got hit pretty hard and are trying to heal up some HP before leaving a sheltered area( had to do that one myself yesterday). Or if they are making a circle with a base they may be attempting to get turned around to head in the proper direction when leaving the base out the other side may have been more dangerous or taken longer.

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2 hours ago, GrampaStyle said:

I am new to the game so please take it easy on any responses.  Why is it that no one comes to the aid of teammates under fire in this game?  Instead I see them circling an already occupied base (even when the enemy team occupies more), refusing to fire their guns, and refusing to move in order to cover open flanks?  I am getting melted a lot cause I just can't, for one, watch as a friendly is getting overwhelmed and do nothing about it, to at lest try to help even if it means going down fighting.  I mean what is the point of the focus being solely on capping if your team sinks one by one? 

Don't go out on your own. Most often I see people dying 'without support' are those that are all alone. Not saying that you are doing this, but this what I see the most:

If you charge out alone and get focus fired, don't expect help. A yolo rushing ship getting sunk hurts the team enough. Two more ships running into slaughter right behind it hurts even more.

Pay attention to your teammates. The thing I had most trouble with was not realizing when my teammates retreated (usually because there were too many reds on that flank and we were all going to get sunk).

Other than that, see if anyone wants to join you before you head for a cap.

Happy hunting

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20 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Go to YouTube and look up how to enable replays, if you haven't already. Then send them to @Lord_Zath, who will give you inestimable help with your game. He does a weekly replay stream on Twitch from 1pm CST most weeks, and he has about 300 games that people have sent to him already up and analysed on YouTube.

In this way you will see replays in a wide variety of ships, sent in by players ranging from the expert (not like me) to the somewhat mediocre (exactly like me) and occasionally downright hopeless (sometimes what I am), discover what mistakes they made, and hopefully avoid making them yourself. But ultimately there is no substitute for practice and getting familiarity with the way a ship handles and its guns and/or torpedoes work.

 

Best of luck in the game.

o/

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