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GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND

My Tier 7 Experience

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So every now and then i like to play my Atlanta because I love the ship it is just fun to play.

But I am still very competitive and want to Win so of course I play it and tier 7 just as I would any of my Tier 10 Cruisers.

But apparently at Tier 7 which I was very unaware of, Winning or at least playing to Win is not a thing in my games.

Any advice, or lightly negative comment like please do not throw this game lol,  gets the same reaction.

Which would be F..k You!!!! or F..k Off, or This is not tier X and we do not give a S..T about getting better followed by another F..k YOU!!!!

Now that is only the F words lol, I  want even start trying to tell you about all the other words.

It would seem to be that this reaction is mostly around Tier 7 as I never see anyone act like that at tiers 9 or 10 its not even close.

It is so saddening to realize that these players somehow exist in the game and I can only hope they never ever stop playing tier 7.

But yet So many players would like Ranked to be Tier 7....... apparently this is where the competitive players hang out.

Yeah ok lol

 

Edited by GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND
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Well if you bust out with "Please don't throw this game" there's so much condescension and scorn wrapped up in something like that, I'm not surprised at the reactions you're getting.   Maybe try some more constructive advice?  I find it usually gets a good reaction.

You might want to spend some of your captain points on social skills.

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3 minutes ago, GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND said:

So every now and then i like to play my Atlanta because I love the ship it is just fun to play.

But I am still very competitive and want to Win so of course I play it and tier 7 just as I would any of my Tier 10 Cruisers.

But apparently at Tier 7 which I was very unaware of, Winning or at least playing to Win is not a thing in my games.

Any advice, or lightly negative comment like please do not throw this game lol,  gets the same reaction.

Which would be F..k You!!!! or F..k Off, or This is not tier X and we do not give a S..T about getting better followed by another F..k YOU!!!!

Now that is only the F words lol, I  want even start trying to tell you about all the other words.

It would seem to be that this reaction is mostly around Tier 7 as I never see anyone act like that at tiers 9 or 10 its not even close.

It is so saddening to realize that this players somehow exist in the game and I can only hope they never ever stop playing tier 7.

But yet So many players would like Ranked to be Tier 7....... apparently this is where the competitive players hang out.

Yeah ok lol

 

I see no reason for people to act that way (eyeroll). I have this awesome way of playing myself. I play MY ship and only MY ship and I never have the issues you mentioned.

Give it a shot?  Not everyone judges their self worth on a win rate.

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3 minutes ago, TheDreadnought said:

Well if you bust out with "Please don't throw this game" there's so much condescension and scorn wrapped up in something like that, I'm not surprised at the reactions you're getting.   Maybe try some more constructive advice?  I find it usually gets a good reaction.

You might want to spend some of your captain points on social skills.

Constructive advice gets worse results than any negative comment sadly Dread.

I mean i would not be shocked if i told someone hey your doing good..... only to get chat raged for mentioning someones name.

 

Edited by GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND
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3 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

I see no reason for people to act that way (eyeroll). I have this awesome way of playing myself. I play MY ship and only MY ship and I never have the issues you mentioned.

Give it a shot?  Not everyone judges their self worth on a win rate.

Well I do not either it is only tier 7..... Why is it only at tier 7?

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I have begin to loathe T5-7 games if only due to the fact they are now plagued with CVs for some reason to the point I'll just stay up in t10.

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14 minutes ago, GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND said:

I mean i would not be shocked if i told someone hey your doing good..... only to get chat raged for mentioning someones name.

 

Put cursor  aim tic on ship. Hold B.  Click "Well Done".  It identifies the player and gives them a "Well done".  I've done this hundreds (perhaps thousands!) or times.  I've never received a negative response...ever.  I often receive a thank you.  

Edited by Soshi_Sone
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2 minutes ago, Slumlord_Cheeto said:

I have begin to loathe T5-7 games if only due to the fact they are now plagued with CVs for some reason to the point I'll just stay up in t10.

yeah every game is a cv game is it not, crazy how that is

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To be honest, it's not only T7. I had a montana in ranked tell me I was a lucky **** when I deleted his broadside at 10km. When I responded that it might have had more to do with the lack of angle on his ship he blew up and called some of the nastiest names I've seen in game. Some people never learn.

T7 is messed up because T4 is protected, which means T6 can't see T4 and T5 can't see T3. Result is most games are T5-7, where the T7s are top tier. Thus players have figured out that if they play T7 they are usually top tier, and can club the helpless T5s. If they play T8 they might not be top tier (gasp), so there's no incentive to move up. Thus you have a stagnant base at T7 with no real skills against equal or higher tier ships and no wish to improve, because they don't have to. Also, T7 has a couple of premiums that are, shall we say, very comfortable to play, which doesn't help the problem.

The biggest argument against +/- 1 MM is the mess it's made of mid tier battles right now. 

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14 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

 

Put cursor  aim tic on ship. Hold B.  Click "Well Done".  It identifies the player and gives them a "Well done".  I've done this hundreds (perhaps thousands!) or times.  I've never received a negative response...ever.  I often receive a thank you.  

Ok Soshi I will try that out and just stay out of Chat altogether.  I am however keeping a list of everyone who tells me to F-OFF.

If i see them on the enemy team I will be sure to make them have a wonderful experience in the match :cap_look:

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23 minutes ago, GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND said:

yeah every game is a cv game is it not, crazy how that is

It's almost as if there's a fourth type of ships that people want to play with.

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just play coop, its a far better class of people than the tawdry PvP crowed that get easily offended :Smile_hiding:

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Hi GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND it might be possible they see you as a top player and the last thing average and bad players want to see (I know because I am one) is a top player criticizing them with negativity. Some handle it okay but some will react with the same or worse energy as they are given and sometimes you have to be more polite to people in this world because lots of people just expect that plus being nice to people is a pretty good idea in general. I'll say I remember playing with and against you a handful of times and you've never been rudely critical to me and I play like a real boob lots of times that's for sure but if you ever see me in game and I play like a fool and you say "Hey Pytheas that was a dumb move" I'll probably agree brohan thanks for reading.

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25 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

To be honest, it's not only T7. I had a montana in ranked tell me I was a lucky **** when I deleted his broadside at 10km. When I responded that it might have had more to do with the lack of angle on his ship he blew up and called some of the nastiest names I've seen in game. Some people never learn.

T7 is messed up because T4 is protected, which means T6 can't see T4 and T5 can't see T3. Result is most games are T5-7, where the T7s are top tier. Thus players have figured out that if they play T7 they are usually top tier, and can club the helpless T5s. If they play T8 they might not be top tier (gasp), so there's no incentive to move up. Thus you have a stagnant base at T7 with no real skills against equal or higher tier ships and no wish to improve, because they don't have to. Also, T7 has a couple of premiums that are, shall we say, very comfortable to play, which doesn't help the problem.

The biggest argument against +/- 1 MM is the mess it's made of mid tier battles right now. 

Oh ok I see what I am dealing with now.... I am not gonna spell it out but I understand why.

Edited by GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND

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38 minutes ago, GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND said:

yeah every game is a cv game is it not, crazy how that is

not suprising.  tier 7 sees the most of the active CV tiers.(5-8)  you dont see 4, and CVs are rare tier 9+.

 

 

its why I always take DF on mid tier cruisers.   just too many CVs to make hydro even worth it.(kind of annoying having to pick one or the other tbh)

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15 minutes ago, Pytheas said:

Hi GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND it might be possible they see you as a top player and the last thing average and bad players want to see (I know because I am one) is a top player criticizing them with negativity. Some handle it okay but some will react with the same or worse energy as they are given and sometimes you have to be more polite to people in this world because lots of people just expect that plus being nice to people is a pretty good idea in general. I'll say I remember playing with and against you a handful of times and you've never been rudely critical to me and I play like a real boob lots of times that's for sure but if you ever see me in game and I play like a fool and you say "Hey Pytheas that was a dumb move" I'll probably agree brohan thanks for reading.

Yeah I am hardly critical of anyone and if I am it is because I want that player(s) to be successful,  I never go on long Rants dropping the F-Bomb every other word in chat that is for sure even if I am the one being criticized.

I will try to turn down the competitive juices just a few notches when I am down there and thanks for the insight.

 

 

 

Edited by GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND
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57 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

T7 is messed up because T4 is protected, which means T6 can't see T4 and T5 can't see T3. Result is most games are T5-7, where the T7s are top tier. Thus players have figured out that if they play T7 they are usually top tier, and can club the helpless T5s. If they play T8 they might not be top tier (gasp), so there's no incentive to move up. Thus you have a stagnant base at T7 with no real skills against equal or higher tier ships and no wish to improve, because they don't have to. Also, T7 has a couple of premiums that are, shall we say, very comfortable to play, which doesn't help the problem.

^This, and T7 is the highest tier where a mediocre to slightly bad game can still earn you credits, for players not wanting to spend any money on the game.

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1 hour ago, GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND said:

So every now and then i like to play my Atlanta because I love the ship it is just fun to play.

But I am still very competitive and want to Win so of course I play it and tier 7 just as I would any of my Tier 10 Cruisers.

But apparently at Tier 7 which I was very unaware of, Winning or at least playing to Win is not a thing in my games.

Any advice, or lightly negative comment like please do not throw this game lol,  gets the same reaction.

Which would be F..k You!!!! or F..k Off, or This is not tier X and we do not give a S..T about getting better followed by another F..k YOU!!!!

Now that is only the F words lol, I  want even start trying to tell you about all the other words.

It would seem to be that this reaction is mostly around Tier 7 as I never see anyone act like that at tiers 9 or 10 its not even close.

It is so saddening to realize that these players somehow exist in the game and I can only hope they never ever stop playing tier 7.

But yet So many players would like Ranked to be Tier 7....... apparently this is where the competitive players hang out.

Yeah ok lol

 

I mostly play Tier 7.  I've never had any of that tossed at me.  I'll usually open with a query about AB or BC?, then say where I am going once some response has happened, or after a delay even with no response.  Sometimes I admonish to support the DDs and for BBs to please advance behind the cruisers and for BBs to shoot at enemy DDs as well.  All of that is driven towards winning and I've never been told to Eff off and that this isn't Tier X.

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56 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

T7 is messed up because T4 is protected, which means T6 can't see T4 and T5 can't see T3. Result is most games are T5-7, where the T7s are top tier.

I really do not think that this is the cause.  I think you have to look at the other end of the spectrum for the reason: it is because Tier X is the highest you can go.  Players like to get their Tier X, like to play their Tier X, and WG wants to make sure that the Tier X players feel good about earning and playing their Tier X so they make sure that there are lower-tier ships in every battle for them to beat up on.

There have been multiple posters here and in other WG media who have done (semi-)scientific studies of how often their Tier VIII ships are placed into top/mid/bottom-tier battles, in order to test the regular complaint of "my tier VIII is always against tier X!"  All the reports seem to agree that Tier VIII ships are put into Tier X battles 50% of the time (a far cry from "always" but certainly more than their share!), are top-tier about 35% of the time, and mid-tier only about 15% of the time.  So the VIII and IX are very often put into Tier X battles, and that is why you so seldom find a Tier VII ship as bottom-tier in a tier IX battle.

This is the real reason why Tier VII seems to be favored in matchmaking: not as many Tier IX ships in play, and most of those being thrust into Tier X battles.

Tier VI is not always, nor even particularly often, bottom-tier.  See how the Tier VIII are only top in about a third of their battles?  The honest complaint at Tier VI is that they will also infrequently themselves be top-tier (like the Tier VIII and IX ships), and that they can never be +2 since they cannot face Tier IV.  Only this last is a product of the protected Tier IV matchmaking.

Tier V does get screwed in matchmaking by both factors: more often being bottom-tier due to the excess of Tier VII battles, and not getting to be +2 since they cannot face Tier III ships when they do get to be top-tier.  But again only this last is caused by the Tier III/IV matchmaking protection.  

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42 minutes ago, Mono_De_Mantequilla said:

I really do not think that this is the cause.  I think you have to look at the other end of the spectrum for the reason: it is because Tier X is the highest you can go.  Players like to get their Tier X, like to play their Tier X, and WG wants to make sure that the Tier X players feel good about earning and playing their Tier X so they make sure that there are lower-tier ships in every battle for them to beat up on.

There have been multiple posters here and in other WG media who have done (semi-)scientific studies of how often their Tier VIII ships are placed into top/mid/bottom-tier battles, in order to test the regular complaint of "my tier VIII is always against tier X!"  All the reports seem to agree that Tier VIII ships are put into Tier X battles 50% of the time (a far cry from "always" but certainly more than their share!), are top-tier about 35% of the time, and mid-tier only about 15% of the time.  So the VIII and IX are very often put into Tier X battles, and that is why you so seldom find a Tier VII ship as bottom-tier in a tier IX battle.

This is the real reason why Tier VII seems to be favored in matchmaking: not as many Tier IX ships in play, and most of those being thrust into Tier X battles.

Tier VI is not always, nor even particularly often, bottom-tier.  See how the Tier VIII are only top in about a third of their battles?  The honest complaint at Tier VI is that they will also infrequently themselves be top-tier (like the Tier VIII and IX ships), and that they can never be +2 since they cannot face Tier IV.  Only this last is a product of the protected Tier IV matchmaking.

Tier V does get screwed in matchmaking by both factors: more often being bottom-tier due to the excess of Tier VII battles, and not getting to be +2 since they cannot face Tier III ships when they do get to be top-tier.  But again only this last is caused by the Tier III/IV matchmaking protection.  

I get what you're saying about the TX cap, but not sure what could be done about it. If you add tiers, you just move the problem up a couple tiers. As long as you have a top tier with +/-2 MM, the top tier is always going to be top tier, and the next two tiers will be affected accordingly. T10 always sees T9 and T8, and T9 can only see one tier higher. Thus T8 will be pulled into T10 more often because T10 can't go up to fill the battle, so they have to go down. Thus the 50% stat you quoted makes perfect sense. Basically T7 is as high as you can go without getting into the top tier problem, so as the T8s are already getting pulled up more often than not, that already increases the chance for them to be top tier. Added to the fact is that T6 and T5can only pull ships one tier lower instead of two. Thus T7 is the first tier that can pull ships from two tiers lower, and avoids getting pulled into higher tier battles because of the pull from T10. That's what creates the sweet spot at T7. T5 gets really screwed, T6 basically is almost never going to be top tier, but they're generally not bottom tier either. T7 is often top tier, and T8 is most often bottom tier, and T9 is usually mid tier, never bottom tier, and rarely top tier.

A lot of text. But I don't think it's a huge problem, at least not yet. The solution isn't easy, even deprotecting T4 would only help half the problem, and obviously there are already the problems that forced that change in the first place. Then again, the Cleveland, which I believe was the main reason T4 was removed from T6 battles, is now T8, so maybe it'd be OK.

The next solution would be to go to +/-1 MM, which a lot of people have been yelling for. Obviously there are population problems there, which may or may not make that change possible. But let's think that through. T9 would then be screwed, because T10 could ONLY pull from T9, as there is no T11. That makes T8 more commonly top tier, which influences T7, making that bottom tier. By this point the effect is probably pretty diluted, but my guess is that T6 would tend to be top tier, leaving T5 on the bottom. So it would move the current problem to high tier, and maybe reduce it a bit, but +/-1 MM would not solve the problem of being top and bottom tier a disproportionate amount of the time. Yes you're not 2 tiers down, but you're still facing ships that outclass you.

Didn't mean for this to be so long, just my thoughts on the matter.

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Yeah, +/-1 matchmaking would tend to benefit even-tier ships and hurt odd-tier ships for just those reasons.  Unless WG would commit to try to make as many all-Tier X games as possible, to dilute the top-of-the-line cap a bit.  However, I think they do want to make the Tier X owners feel special to reward them for the grind.  After all, they may question the point of getting to the pinnacle of the ship lines if it means you will fight all ships that are just as strong as yours.

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21 hours ago, Slumlord_Cheeto said:

I have begin to loathe T5-7 games if only due to the fact they are now plagued with CVs for some reason to the point I'll just stay up in t10.

Funny...I'm upset when I do NOT get a CV when queuing in my QE.  If you need to thin the mid tier CV herd, a QE is the BEST BB in the game to do it.

That said, the mid tier CVs don't really have much of a punch, IMHO...no matter what ship I'm playing at the time.

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