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embeddeddear97

Graf spee, worth it?

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I’m working on the german cruiser line and possibly the BB line after and I’ve been thinking about the Graf spee as a cheaper premium to get to help retrain the commanders. I’ve watched multiple videos on it for mixed results on if it’s worth it or not. So, is it worth it’s unique play style or should I look at something else to get to retrain my german commanders?

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4 minutes ago, embeddeddear97 said:

I’m working on the german cruiser line and possibly the BB line after and I’ve been thinking about the Graf spee as a cheaper premium to get to help retrain the commanders. I’ve watched multiple videos on it for mixed results on if it’s worth it or not. So, is it worth it’s unique play style or should I look at something else to get to retrain my german commanders?

I certainly think so. She is tough as nails for a CA at tier 6 and has guns that hit hard. She is a bit hard to learn since she is a battleship cruiser hybrid, but overall is a fun and strong ship.

 

strengths: Good armor, good torps with excellent firing arcs, powerful guns.

cons: slow-ish, long reload (20 sec), mediocre dispersion.

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Spee is fun and does has her charms, but she can be frustrating sometimes with only six guns and weak armor. She can function quite well with either a BB or cruiser captain. However, Scharnhorst will be more fun and a better trainer. I know Scharn is more expensive, but she is a better value.

edit: I disagree with Horama’s opinion on her armor. Spee is a large, relatively slow target that sees a lot of BB guns that can overmatch her armor. She has a good health pool and heal to somewhat makeup for it, but she is very vulnerable to battleship caliber guns.

Edited by SavageTactical
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9 minutes ago, Horama said:

I certainly think so. She is tough as nails for a CA at tier 6 and has guns that hit hard. She is a bit hard to learn since she is a battleship cruiser hybrid, but overall is a fun and strong ship.

 

strengths: Good armor, good torps with excellent firing arcs, powerful guns.

cons: slow-ish, long reload (20 sec), mediocre dispersion.

I think so also. She has over a 54% win rate which is, I do believe, near the top of all cruisers in the game. This is with over 900,00 matches. Some love her some don't. Tricky to play at first IMO but once you get the hang of her you can be dominate over all other cruisers she faces. Also, she has great torps!  I feel this is her ace in the hole. Fast torps with long range!

Edited by dmckay
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Absolutely.  Fun as hell.

Prinz Eugen is a solid choice too and her camo includes a 50% captain xp bonus.  Although its a tougher cruiser meta at Tier 8.

14 minutes ago, embeddeddear97 said:

I’m working on the german cruiser line and possibly the BB line after and I’ve been thinking about the Graf spee as a cheaper premium to get to help retrain the commanders. I’ve watched multiple videos on it for mixed results on if it’s worth it or not. So, is it worth it’s unique play style or should I look at something else to get to retrain my german commanders?

 

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All of the German premiums are fun, but that fun comes at a price and that price is a higher learning curve. Drive it like you stole it, works for all German BB's between Bayern and GK....the GK handles like a double trailer logging truck however lol and really doesnt fit the style of the others

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25 minutes ago, embeddeddear97 said:

I’m working on the german cruiser line and possibly the BB line after and I’ve been thinking about the Graf spee as a cheaper premium to get to help retrain the commanders. I’ve watched multiple videos on it for mixed results on if it’s worth it or not. So, is it worth it’s unique play style or should I look at something else to get to retrain my german commanders?

Its fun as hell but dont expect to do a ridiculous amount of damage everytime.

Just remember to aim at little bit above the belt, were the secondaries are, if you're engaging bbs while using AP. Against cruisers and dds this ship is very fun.

Sail her like a drive-by bote. Switch rounds accordingly (AP to HE), stay mobile always, support the dds and cruiser as a second line gunfire support ship and you'll do fine.

Edited by Sidelock

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8 minutes ago, SavageTactical said:

Spee is fun and does has her charms, but she can be frustrating sometimes with only six guns and weak armor. She can function quite well with either a BB or cruiser captain. However, Scharnhorst will be more fun and a better trainer. I know Scharn is more expensive, but she is a better value.

Only issue I can see there is that Scharn is a BB in MM, and Spee is only a CA. You can probably get away with playing Spee however you want without jeopardising the match as much.

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According to the review by LWM she is apparently a great trainer for all 3 lines German lines, that’s a very flexible ship in that case and makes her a worthwhile purchase.

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7 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

Only issue I can see there is that Scharn is a BB in MM, and Spee is only a CA. You can probably get away with playing Spee however you want without jeopardising the match as much.

People get hung up on Scharn being a BB with smaller guns.  Honestly, it's a great boat with BB armor, good secondaries, and torps.  You don't play it the same as her sister BUT that doesn't take away from her value.  Just like any ship, it's as good as it's player.

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I love my Graf Spee, it is not your standard cruiser so be careful with it. It hits like a battleship but plays more like a cruiser, even though it is a little bit slow. The torps are a nice edition and come in handy. In tier 6 it really is a beast.

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36 minutes ago, embeddeddear97 said:

I’m working on the german cruiser line and possibly the BB line after and I’ve been thinking about the Graf spee as a cheaper premium to get to help retrain the commanders. I’ve watched multiple videos on it for mixed results on if it’s worth it or not. So, is it worth it’s unique play style or should I look at something else to get to retrain my german commanders?

Depends what you like to play. As a cruiser she is glacially slow at everything. As a battleship she is as quick as greased lightening.

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4 minutes ago, MG1962 said:

Depends what you like to play. As a cruiser she is glacially slow at everything. As a battleship she is as quick as greased lightening.

What I like about it is, it doesn't really have a solid identity, so it lends itself to different playstyles depending on the lineup.

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I'm not a great player and I have the triad of German premiums...  The Graf is the lesser of them.  I call her an "in between" combatant.  She was designed for merchant raiding and at that, wow.......a terror is showed up with light and smaller escorts....  Even with Cruiser escorts, the Graf was a handful...

In game, I find my self caught "in between" the concentric rings of naval warfare:  seriously too light for any intentional BB engagements; seriously out-gunned in the middle when cruisers start to fill out the middle battles; and, awkward at best up front at the caps and dealing with DD and DD screen at caps....   Now, if we had merchant scenarios...........oh boy, she'd be a terror.  We don't and she has many neat traits but, she's too slow, too out-of-place and, out-gunned almost all of the time everywhere else....   I play the ship in coop only now and every once and a while in random.......

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Love the Spee.  Only 6 guns, but they hit hard.  Make sure you know how to aim.  Long reload.  Good heal.  

A lot of people forget it has torps, till they eat a couple.  Good firing angles, too.

Slow for a cruiser, but I think of it as a small battlecruiser.  Be careful around DDs.  If a DD is charging you, wait for that good shot and give him all 6 barrels if you can.

Edit: as Asym_KS mentions, she's a terror in scenarios.  

Edited by mavfin87

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It was my first german premium, since it was $10 in the Steam sale before summer. Played her a bit but then I accumulated enough doubloons for the Scharnhorst and I haven't played her since. For me personally was never a fun boat. 

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A cruiser that packs a punch but doesn't do so well with DDs. I like the time I spent with the ship.

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3 minutes ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

It was my first german premium, since it was $10 in the Steam sale before summer. Played her a bit but then I accumulated enough doubloons for the Scharnhorst and I haven't played her since. For me personally was never a fun boat. 

I think the Graf Spee is a love or hate boat.  You either love her or you hate her.  Just takes a different style.  She's too hybrid for most min/maxers as well.

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Guns define the ship--it's a fragile BB with only 6 guns. Don't expect hunting DDs. Basically long range support plus occasional torps when you have opportunity to yolo enemy BB.

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49 minutes ago, firemedic1428 said:

Eh, 6 guns with a slow reload. I never play mine anymore.

That's the thing with the Spee.  She's a slow for a cruiser and has near battleship grade guns, which of course, mean that they are slower loading... which on a cruiser is very much a double edged sword.  The Spee can hit enemy cruisers HARD and do quite nice damage to battleships, but at the same time, those guns are not particularly good for engaging DDs, due to their low number and relative inaccuracy.  Yes, if they hit a DD, they can hurt, but that's a big "if".

I think that the Graf Spee is an acquired taste.  Some will like her, others not so much.

 

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Graff Spee is certainly different and potentially powerful. But are there other options that will work better for you? Probably.

Its two turrets can hit hard against most any ship at tier 6 (even BB's will feel the hurt if you put shells where they need to be). They also fire rather quickly for the caliber that is being used, but they are also slower to reload than most other cruisers. This means that you had better be on good terms with RNGesus and make sure those shells hit. Because the enemy ship will manage to hit you between shots. Where as you have excellent alpha damage, your damage over time starts to lag behind other ships that can keep those shells flying.

Now, you do have torps with amazing angles and range that allows you to use them offensively while pushing towards a ship, or defensively as you attempt to retreat, but they are torps and more often than not can be avoided. They will not be the primary reason for your enemies destruction, but they certain can and will count towards your Kill/Death ratio.

The hull is tough. …well, tough enough to deal with some incoming BB fire and tough enough to shrug off some cruiser fire as well. But it is not impervious and you can and will sustain damage from every shot. The only good thing is that you can repair some of that damage.

Vs a cruiser, you have a "decent" advantage in open water; you are not however going to be KO'ing cruisers left and right; unless they are all showing you their broadsides. You also have to make sure those shells hit (again, preferably in the enemies sides). If you don't, most cruisers will simply overwhelm you with HE and kill you off with their superior fire rate. When the shells land, you will do damage. 1000 here on a bad shot, 3000 there on a good one, 5000 is not that uncommon with full salvos, the glorious citadel from time to time, but you've got to remember that the enemy will be doing that same amount of damage back; they'll just have to expend more time/shells to get it.

Vs a BB, you are at a disadvantage (well, all cruisers are so...) regarding survivability but with more potential to deal significant damage to that BB with the time you have left. Your guns can citadel a couple of the BB's at tier 6 (not common, but can be done more reliably than most other tier 6 cruisers) and they are at least more than accurate enough to hit the enemy ship reliably at max range (given the larger profile). Your HE isn't a slouch either so that works well enough for starting fires. The best tools and strategy for use against the enemy BB's would be to either stay as far away from them and kite (AND DODGE!!!-Piccolo) and/or get into some islands and setup an ambush using your torps. You've at least got two options. The least suggested option would be to yolo towards that enemy BB. You'll die for certain if it can get shots off, but again, those torps of yours can be used while you are nearly bow on; you've got a chance to take it out with you.

Vs a DD, your only option for spotting them is your plane (which may or may not be completely useless). Or hoping that the enemy smokes up, allowing you to push towards them with hydro active. Luckily at tier 6, there aren't too many stealth DD's that can torp you from the shadows, so you do at least have an advantage if/when they show themselves.

If you are focused or up tiered, your chances of victory are drastically reduced as you have neither the fire rate nor the durability to outmatch the enemy. And at tier 8... RNGesus help you.

Overall, Graff feels more like a support ship. OR, at the least, a ship that requires support to make up for it's slow rate of fire. Its other characteristics feel equal or above average to other tier 6 cruisers. Alone, it's a threat to just about any other Cruiser. If it has support from even one other cruiser or a BB, it can be a force to be reckoned with as it has more time to get its guns fired off before being killed. With just another cruiser at my side (or equal distraction), Graff can potentially tackle a BB and come out on top.

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Spee is the sort of ship I like to play when not plugging away at some kind of grind.

Problem is, it’s been a grind fest since... April? And it looks to continue until probably February ‘19.

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    If you really like cruiser play then yes. Shes a little different than the rest of the line at a glance but actually fits in well enough with the heavy cruiser play of the line.

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