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Ensign_Cthulhu

Ships that have me tearing my hair out.

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Two ships, united only in that they are destroyers. I suck in Randoms at both of them. Either I under-perform or the whole team does or both, and I end up either dead early or alive late but with nothing much to show for it either way.

(Yes, I admit - the fault almost certainly lies not in my ships but in myself. I'll get that out of the way right now.)

 

The first is the Pan-Asian Fushun, at Tier 6. I was so looking forward to getting out of the Jianwei, but now I'm in her successor I have been getting a rude shock. It's odd, because I expected a reasonably smooth transition due to having the Anshan for a while and feeling pretty good about my performance in her. Yes, I know the Anshan has regular torpedoes and the Fushun DWT, but I didn't expect the difference to be all that great. Boy, have I been wrong. And yet, co-op games are fun and feel productive, and not just because of the inherent very high win rate.

 

The second is the US Mahan, at Tier 7. What's not to like? Farragut guns, Farragut-ish torpedoes, with a bonus set in case surprise enemies appear on the disengaged side, and a long-range torpedo option to which I promptly free-XP'd to avoid the stock grind. (Just 103,000 XP before I get to the Benson, LOL.) Or so I thought once again, because I have exactly the same sort of disastrous Random games in her that I had in the Fushun, and much worse than in the Farragut. And once again, the Co-op games feel enjoyable and productive, and I don't walk away feeling like I'm out of my depth.

 

Is it just me? Or is there something peculiar about both ships that represents a transition which mediocre players do not handle well, and which I should be aware of when trying to identify my deficiencies? For now I'm relegating them to co-op because I don't like almost always having the double-whammy of poor performance and a losing streak while I'm trying to work them out. The downside of that is the dissimilar manner in which bots and humans handle torpedo threats. (For the record, both ships have 10 point captains with Concealment Expert.)

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Dont ya worry. Gadjah madha ( cant pronounce it properly) is a ship worth grinding for. 

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Mahan's only real drawback is her horrible concealment.  I believe it is getting buffed (reduced) at some point though.

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Gadjah is the payoff as said above, also...don’t base anything off of CO Op, it is a fun game mode for feeling out new ships but in no way prepares you to play actual people. It in fact ruins you because it will teach you bad habits, and then you will have to unlearn to be good in random play. Good luck.

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I want to say that, at least in Mahan's case, it's a changing meta issue.

I'm not much of a DD player, but I had the same experience.

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1 minute ago, Ace_04 said:

Mahan's only real drawback is her horrible concealment.  I believe it is getting buffed (reduced) at some point though.

Was about to say the same. Mahan until recently had 6.9km detection, making you quite often the first one to be spotted. This has been fixed though, I think her max concealment now is 6.6km which is workable.

It's been a while since I did the Mahan grind, but I actually enjoyed her, the torpedoes were a very welcome addition and the good smoke and fire rate helped quite a bit in caps.

As for the Fushun, same as Anshan she is a hybrid. You can do some open water gunboating if using the Sierra Mike or have engine boost, or a combination of the two. Her shell ballistics definitely help in that regard.

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Take your boat to training room and load up 6 AI at High Int. Their only objective will be your destruction, and they don't miss.

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7 minutes ago, IAMMUDBONE said:

also...don’t base anything off of CO Op, it is a fun game mode for feeling out new ships but in no way prepares you to play actual people.

Oh, don't worry, I'm well aware of the differences (particularly as regards anything with torpedoes) and I'm MOSTLY a Randoms player. But sometimes I need a break.

4 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

I want to say that, at least in Mahan's case, it's a changing meta issue.

Can you be more specific on that one? I suspected as much, but I'm not perceptive or experienced enough to take it further than that. Just a vague stirring in the Force, so to speak.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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38 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Two ships, united only in that they are destroyers. I suck in Randoms at both of them. Either I under-perform or the whole team does or both, and I end up either dead early or alive late but with nothing much to show for it either way.

(Yes, I admit - the fault almost certainly lies not in my ships but in myself. I'll get that out of the way right now.)

 

The first is the Pan-Asian Fushun, at Tier 6. I was so looking forward to getting out of the Jianwei, but now I'm in her successor I have been getting a rude shock. It's odd, because I expected a reasonably smooth transition due to having the Anshan for a while and feeling pretty good about my performance in her. Yes, I know the Anshan has regular torpedoes and the Fushun DWT, but I didn't expect the difference to be all that great. Boy, have I been wrong. And yet, co-op games are fun and feel productive, and not just because of the inherent very high win rate.

 

The second is the US Mahan, at Tier 7. What's not to like? Farragut guns, Farragut-ish torpedoes, with a bonus set in case surprise enemies appear on the disengaged side, and a long-range torpedo option to which I promptly free-XP'd to avoid the stock grind. (Just 103,000 XP before I get to the Benson, LOL.) Or so I thought once again, because I have exactly the same sort of disastrous Random games in her that I had in the Fushun, and much worse than in the Farragut. And once again, the Co-op games feel enjoyable and productive, and I don't walk away feeling like I'm out of my depth.

 

Is it just me? Or is there something peculiar about both ships that represents a transition which mediocre players do not handle well, and which I should be aware of when trying to identify my deficiencies? For now I'm relegating them to co-op because I don't like almost always having the double-whammy of poor performance and a losing streak while I'm trying to work them out. The downside of that is the dissimilar manner in which bots and humans handle torpedo threats. (For the record, both ships have 10 point captains with Concealment Expert.)

You could have used the Mahan last 2 weeks in Dynamo Op for good xp

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3 minutes ago, Commander_367 said:

You could have used the Mahan last 2 weeks in Dynamo Op for good xp

I tried; it didn't work out well because I'm lousy at shooting the enemy Schnellboats and I don't have the C hull. I mostly used Dynamo to burn through my Monaghan XP bonus missions before they expired (good AA on that boat), generate needed cash (lots of ship purchases recently) and give my primary destroyer captain a leg-up towards his next point. 

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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3 minutes ago, Commander_367 said:

You could have used the Mahan last 2 weeks in Dynamo Op for good xp

'C' hull version is great for that Op or the Sims

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3 minutes ago, Junostorm said:

'C' hull version is great for that Op or the Sims

I'll bear it in mind next time it's in the rotation, but right now all the XP is counting towards the Benson grind. Until I find my way through to a solution, I don't want to be in this ship any longer than I have to. And that means the C hull is no more than a frivolous diversion. Maybe when I'm another 20 or 30K towards the next ship I'll splurge a little.

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10 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Oh, don't worry, I'm well aware of the differences (particularly as regards anything with torpedoes) and I'm MOSTLY a Randoms player. But sometimes I need a break.

Can you be more specific on that one? I suspected as much, but I'm not perceptive or experienced enough to take it further than that. Just a vague stirring in the Force, so to speak.

Basically more radar, more patience required, more willingness for BBs to shoot at DDs.

Mind you, I played all my games in Mahan before T4 "protection", so T7 wasn't as ideal a tier to play, and mid-tier BBs weren't as prone to target DDs as they are now.

I also had the same issue going from Nicholas to Farragut. It was ironic, I played both in the Ranked season where the first part was T5&6 together, and did far better in Nicholas than Farragut, even with a new 3-point captain on Nicholas and a 10-pointer on Farragut.

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10 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I tried; it didn't work out well because I'm lousy at shooting the enemy Schnellboats and I don't have the C hull. 

I hear you. It was either kill E-boats with Gnevny, and barely tickle the planes, or claw planes from the sky with Mahan, and whiff at any boats past 3km lol.

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I rarely play DDs and I'm pretty bad with them.  I can't get good damage so I just try to play objectives and spot and take out other DDs.  That said, the Mahan was the DD I did the best with, in spite of her horrid concealment.  I think I used FXP to unlock the hull before starting, but I was done with that grind in about 35 games.  I was really looking forward to Benson after that.  And...I can't make the Benson work for me...

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I think I cranked out around 300K Free XP on the Sims in Dynamo when it was up... To you, that's a Gearing. Mahan was a nice (brief) ship for me. One knows the good ones because they pass by so quick - like the T9 Baltimore [for me]. I did a bit of Random in the Mahan and found it to be more a 'stay back and escort' ship rather than charging the caps. I've had to knife-fight IJN DDs that I couldn't see - so the WASD was always happening. Three times, I was the lone DD defending our standard cap from enemy DDs while my team was stalled in some obscure corner of the map.. (Hey guys !!! Enemy Cap is to your LEFT). RD is mandatory in this mode

Edited by AVR_Project

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3 hours ago, AVR_Project said:

RD is mandatory in this mode

Are you talking about RDF? I have a feeling one letter got left off.

I haven't ever had enough captain points to throw at such luxuries, though from time to time I dabble with such things in Public Test. It might pay as a DD skill at higher tiers once I've got a couple more 19 pointers worked up and am really churning out the Elite XP, but right now it seems to me to be one of those things that depends on having a ship with the best speed & the best guns, and a driver with good accuracy under pressure. So far, that latter one isn't me. It's one of the things I'm working on in co-op, though. At least there, learning to shoot and lead fast-moving destroyers under pressure still has validity when carried across to randoms.

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For me I suck in any torpedo focused ship where the torps are shorter than or equal to the detection range I can achieve. Maas in particular is painful for me right now. Emearald has me blocked on british cruisers as well as I am saving free xp for other things.

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8 minutes ago, Ellyh said:

Emerald has me blocked on british cruisers

It's awful, but getting the Leander at the end of it all is worth the trial. When all that's standing between you and winning your first premium ship is the Emerald grind (because it's your only Tier 5 ship*), you man (or woman) up and push through the pain. 

 

 

* = The missions that got me the Vampire around this time last year could also be run with Tier 4 ships, so I found myself alternating between the Danae and the Emerald according to what hadn't been sunk. They were the only eligible ships I had. So I just ploughed on regardless of loss or disaster until the task was done. By the end of it, the Vampire was in port... and when I looked up from that success, I saw that the Emerald had accumulated enough XP on her to unlock the Leander on almost the same day. It felt as good as winning a second ship.

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41 minutes ago, Tieberion said:

Seattle.  Save your hair and flair and FXP to tier X.

I've heard all sorts of things about that ship, two of which are that she replaces the Izumo as the ship most worthy of being FXP-jumped and that she is less powerful than the Cleveland in every way.

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5 hours ago, Ace_04 said:

Mahan's only real drawback is her horrible concealment.  I believe it is getting buffed (reduced) at some point though.

^ This.

Due to power creep, many new tech tree and premium destroyers at tiers 6 and 7 are getting lower and lower detection. This means that both Mahan and Sims are getting outspotted by *everyone* . So while they are excellent gunboats and can (weakly) stealth torp, they cannot easily engage other DDs in caps due to other DDs spotting them, keeping out of their own concealment range, and calling on their buddies to start shelling that hapless Mahan.

That being said, Mahan is otherwise an excellent DD ... and it leads to the Benson which is just amazing.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Are you talking about RDF? I have a feeling one letter got left off.

I haven't ever had enough captain points to throw at such luxuries, though from time to time I dabble with such things in Public Test. It might pay as a DD skill at higher tiers once I've got a couple more 19 pointers worked up and am really churning out the Elite XP, but right now it seems to me to be one of those things that depends on having a ship with the best speed & the best guns, and a driver with good accuracy under pressure. So far, that latter one isn't me. It's one of the things I'm working on in co-op, though. At least there, learning to shoot and lead fast-moving destroyers under pressure still has validity when carried across to randoms.

RDF if you like.  I chose it over concealment on the Mahan, and it really worked out well with 80-ish win rate in Randoms over 23 games.

With that kind of win rate, the ship grinds quick and now I'm languishing on the Benson.

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5 hours ago, KAGA_kaini said:

Dont ya worry. Gadjah madha ( cant pronounce it properly) is a ship worth grinding for. 

I saw one of those last night.  It didn't stand up well to 2 15-gun HE salvos  from Boise at 6 km! :cap_cool: 

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1 hour ago, mavfin87 said:

I saw one of those last night.  It didn't stand up well to 2 15-gun HE salvos  from Boise at 6 km! :cap_cool: 

To be fair, two salvoes like that with most shells on target will end many destroyers' days and have the survivors doubting their life choices.

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