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Mothermoy

bbs need reward system reworked to where potential damage is the biggest factor in how much credits an xpee are made

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i think that alone would fix the majority of our hide and snipe bb drivers. 

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 I don't see something inherently wrong with sniping, why do you think such tactic should be "fixed"?

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I have no actual hard data to back the following up but my own anecdotes and experience. But I get more potential damage in my KGV than my Scharnhorst in many cases. Both are tier 7, so it can’t be the tier. My anecdote is because my KGV doesn’t like to brawl like the Scharnhorst it actually retains some semblance of outright dodging salvos whereas the Scharnhorst outright eats the salvos because it’s too close to dodge/mitigate and score potential damage. 

I have a suspicion if a such a change went through it would be learned that distance gave better potential damage scores as shell flight times would enable more outright evasion of salvos. Not to mention the commonly associated feature of sniping being the last alive and therefore longer battle time, therefore more time to accumulate said potential damage. 

So I don’t think said change would necessarily bring about the change you hope it would. 

Again no hard data, I could be completely off, but that is just my anecdote.

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2 minutes ago, Meatshield_No13 said:

I have no actual hard data to back the following up but my own anecdotes and experience. But I get more potential damage in my KGV than my Scharnhorst in many cases. Both are tier 7, so it can’t be the tier. My anecdote is because my KGV doesn’t like to brawl like the Scharnhorst it actually retains some semblance of outright dodging salvos whereas the Scharnhorst outright eats the salvos because it’s too close to dodge/mitigate and score potential damage. 

I have a suspicion if a such a change went through it would be learned that distance gave better potential damage scores as shell flight times would enable more outright evasion of salvos. Not to mention the commonly associated feature of sniping being the last alive and therefore longer battle time, therefore more time to accumulate said potential damage. 

So I don’t think said change would necessarily bring about the change you hope it would. 

Again no hard data, I could be completely off, but that is just my anecdote.

good point. make where the bb has to be with oh 15k of said ship to get the credit. and preteen, my experience has been while bbs are back sniping where the rng is THE WORSE, the rest of your team gets melted. where as you stick your nose up into the thick of the fight, and have all the ships shooting at you, then the rest of your team can do their job. and being closer means your shells hit more often as well. snipping bbs are about as good as arty in wot. 

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Then again, you might just get teams lining up at the back edges and trading long range fire even more, since you get lots of misses(potential damage) and very few hits. Then when the clock winds down you have a DD race to see who can grab a cap first. It will be almost as exciting as watching your toenails grow, not quite, but almost.

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I'm all for a reward system change, but not to misguidedly change the BB behaviour. Because I do not believe such a change will incentivise BB players to come any forward than they already do.

My issue is that the BBs are there primarily to battle other BBs, but they get penalised for going after BBs. Damage dealt against BBs gives the least amount of XP and credits, whereas DDs give the most. Which is ironic, given BBs are demonstrably harder to kill than DDs. 

The rhetoric (amongst others) against such rebalancing is because the BBs have the "potential" to deal massive damage, yet when you look at the stats, BB damage averages aren't that much higher than cruiser averages.

So given that BBs and cruisers perform comparably on the average, I don't get why BBs get penalised for going after their designated targets; other BBs.

It's really quite off-putting to score 150k damage in a game and place in the middle of the scoreboard, just because all that damage was done against BBs.

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10 minutes ago, Doombeagle said:

Then again, you might just get teams lining up at the back edges and trading long range fire even more, since you get lots of misses(potential damage) and very few hits. Then when the clock winds down you have a DD race to see who can grab a cap first. It will be almost as exciting as watching your toenails grow, not quite, but almost.

thats a good point. why i suggest making the change where bbs only get 'potential damage if they are within 15k of the ship shooting at them. 

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4 minutes ago, Mothermoy said:

thats a good point. why i suggest making the change where bbs only get 'potential damage if they are within 15k of the ship shooting at them. 

How bout no. Some BBs and certain builds on others make them poorly suited for pushing in early.

 If my Musashi is getting shot at by an island humping Gearing at 10km and a Montana who's 24km away, why shouldn't I get credit for the Pot dam from the Monty? Because I'm not stupid enough to push a DD my XP should suffer?

 I hope you didn't spend much time thinking about your idea.

 

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As Ares said, I don't think this will work. Not all BBs make good tanks. Many BBs are too big and slow to escape a bad situation or a bad position. So if more reds show up they are hosed if they are too close to escape. Sure they can all tank, but not all them are inherently good for it.

This is the same as DDs in a way. Not all DDs are good cap contesters. Not all DDs are great torpedo boats. Not all DDs are great gun boats. Sure they can all cap, but not all them are inherently good for it.

Some cruisers have enough speed and maneuverability to fire in the open, others don't but have good arcs capable of firing over islands.

Cookie cutter approaches will help some ships in the class and harm others. I really do wish we got more XP for potential damage, especially when I tank 2 to 3 million potential damage in my Hindenburg while my team throws a broadside parade in front of the red team and gets deleted two at a time. :Smile_facepalm: I just don't think it would be a good idea to make potential damage the primary method of awarding XP.

Edited by MasterDiggs

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Nope, it will not work in the way you want it to as the others have pointed out.

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3 hours ago, Mothermoy said:

i think that alone would fix the majority of our hide and snipe bb drivers. 

Yeah, and maybe we should make all the maps 10 km squares that way there's absolutely no advantage to having long range guns. Better yet make the water brown and then we just have WOT II.

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3 hours ago, Preteen said:

 I don't see something inherently wrong with sniping, why do you think such tactic should be "fixed"?

The team with the most snipers usually loses. BBs need to be putting pressure on caps driving out the opposing team not hiding behind an island 26km away spraying and praying.

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10 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

The team with the most snipers usually loses. BBs need to be putting pressure on caps driving out the opposing team not hiding behind an island 26km away spraying and praying.

 No, the team with the worse snipers usually loses. Good snipers can hit their shots and deal tons of damage and sink ships at long range. 

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No, damage still needs to be important.... but potential damage taken needs to be more highly rewarded than it is today.

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You don’t know know what the [edited] that you’re talking about.

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4 hours ago, Mothermoy said:

where as you stick your nose up into the thick of the fight, and have all the ships shooting at you, then the rest of your team can do their job. 

That's two different things. What actually happens is you stick your nose up into the thick of the fight, the enemy continues to take out your squishy CAs and oh-so-important DDs that are trying to do their jobs, and then uses you for target practice, because you're too close to avoid any hits or torps, or train your guns on faster-moving targets.

Now, if you're in close, and you're actually laying waste to the enemy in massive chunks, then maybe you'll draw enough fire to allow the squishies to operate unhindered. But if you're doing that, you don't need XP from potential damage, you'll get plenty for doing damage yourself.

Why would a reasonably intelligent enemy shoot the damage sponge, when there's more gratifying and important targets, like radar cruisers and DDs, and the sponge isn't going anywhere anyway?

This isn't a PvE MMO, and BBs don't have a Taunt skill.

In general, operate at whatever range lets you fire effectively, yet gives you room to maneuver.

Edited by Skpstr
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22 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

BBs need to be putting pressure on caps driving out the opposing team not hiding behind an island 26km away spraying and praying.

No argument there. You just don't have to do it by getting into brawling range.

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3 hours ago, Doombeagle said:

Then again, you might just get teams lining up at the back edges and trading long range fire even more, since you get lots of misses(potential damage) and very few hits. Then when the clock winds down you have a DD race to see who can grab a cap first. It will be almost as exciting as watching your toenails grow, not quite, but almost.

And that would be different how?  :Smile_hiding:

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30 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

No argument there. You just don't have to do it by getting into brawling range.

Yes. There is a middle ground between being 26 plus km away and useless and suiciding into brawling range which is also useless.

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1 hour ago, Vaffu said:

The team with the most snipers usually loses. BBs need to be putting pressure on caps driving out the opposing team not hiding behind an island 26km away spraying and praying.

Why should we get sent back to port by braindead HE spam and magical ninja assault boats just so you can keep playing?

Edited by Highlord

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There's no arguing with scrubs that think they should engage at max range.

If WG set max acquisition distance to like 16km (range at which a spotted red ship becomes visible), then yes, snipers would either quit or push in. Personally, this would solve all the campfest issues, but first WG would need to improve ship agility and builds so even a Yamato can handle it--right now, some ships handle close-quarters stuff poorly.

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8 minutes ago, Reymu said:

There's no arguing with scrubs that think they should engage at max range.

If WG set max acquisition distance to like 16km (range at which a spotted red ship becomes visible), then yes, snipers would either quit or push in. Personally, this would solve all the campfest issues, but first WG would need to improve ship agility and builds so even a Yamato can handle it--right now, some ships handle close-quarters stuff poorly.

They don't really need to cap the acquisition range. They can just widen  dispersion over distance if necessary. Long range shots are a poor return as it is unless the target is stationary, but they can simply choose make it worse. 

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There's a thin line between patience and stupidity. This line is what most players fail to identify and is one of the reasons of the neverending problem many face to this date (although not the MAIN reason).

The problem with this proposal is that some BBs are unsuited to brawling (Yamato, any UK BB) and they will die fast, punishing the player for doing unsatisfactory damage. However that's not the main problem. The real problem is very simple, many BBs are driven either by cowards or by very simple minded players that prefer to let the other guy take the punishment so they can farm damage for that purple unicum status.

I'm a BB main (although i'm lately playing dds and cruisers too), and it took me almost 6k games to actually learn how and when to properly push.

Sadly, no amount of rework can change the mindset of this players. You can propose anything and you will still see this guys around.

 

Edited by Sidelock

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19 minutes ago, Sidelock said:

There's a thin line between patience and stupidity. This line is what most players fail to identify and is one of the reasons of the neverending problem many face to this date (although not the MAIN reason).

The problem with this proposal is that some BBs are unsuited to brawling (Yamato, any UK BB). However that's not the main problem. The real problem is very simple, many BBs are driven either by cowards or by very simple minded players that prefer to let the other guy take the punishment so they can farm damage for that purple unicum status.

I'm a BB main (although i'm lately playing dds and cruisers too), and it took me almost 6k games to actually learn how and when to properly push.

Sadly, no amount of rework can change the mindset of this players. You can propose anything and you will still see this guys around.

 

I don't think it is usually cowardice or simple-mindedness. I think most newer players don't really know that they aren't being that effective. They think living to the end of the game is how you be productive for your team and the scoring system doesn't really make it clear that isn't the case. The biggest number on the screen is damage and that makes it look like damage (and surviving to do damage) is what wins when map control is really what wins. Sniping at a distance basically concedes map control. Someone has to move up to contest good shooting locations and contest the caps otherwise you will lose, and you need your BBs to move up to take some heat off of the smaller ships so they can move up and try to flush the enemy out of the good map locations. 

I do find it interesting that a lot of the sniping BBs complain about HE spam and torpedoes from hidden enemies not realizing that the enemies are hidden because no one on your team is moving forward to reveal them or force them out.  They've conceded the good map locations to the enemy. The BBs won't move up and risk damage so lighter ships who depend on the BBs to move up also won't move up (or they get destroyed by enemy BBs who did move up if they try). 

Edited by Tzarevitch

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