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DeliciousFart

Halloween submarines HP and speed calculations

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As we all know, like every other Halloween vessel, the submarines are obviously modeled after real-life counterparts. Thanks to u/teo_storm1, the counterparts are given below.

After looking at the data from gamemodels3d on tonnage and speed and comparing them to their real-life counterparts, I've created the table below.

Submarine Real life speed (kn) In-game speed (kn) In-game tonnage HP
Gato (Killer Whale) 21 28 2415 12500
Type XXI (Seelöwe) 18 24 2100 11700
Type XXVI (Gerfalcon) 23.5 31 926 8400
X1 (Barracuda) 20 27 2780 13500
M-401 (Zipper Sub) 19 24 208 6400

It's readily apparent that for most of the submarines, WG used the maximum submerged displacement for tonnage (which is larger than the surfaced displacement), with one exception. For some reason, WG decided to use the surface displacement for the X1 as its tonnage, while for all of the other submarines the submerged displacement was used. I'm not sure why that was the case, perhaps this was for balancing as the X1's submerged displacement of 3,600 tons may be considered too much. In any case, when this caveat is taken into account, doing a linear regression on the data series gives the following equation for tonnage-to-HP calculation.

HP = 2.7656 x tonnage + 5837.7

As for speed, it's pretty easy to see that for in-game speed, WG appears to have simply multiplied the real-life top speed (surfaced or submerged) by 133%. More importantly, in-game the submerged and surfaced speeds are the same, and WG simply used the faster of the two.

Now, this is simply how WG has decided to balance Halloween submarines, and from data extracted from the public test client. It's entirely possible that this can change with the live Halloween event, and may change further if WG decides to bring submarines into the main game. But from this we may be able to project what some hypothetical submarines may look like if they were implemented using the extant formulas.

Edited by DeliciousFart

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21 minutes ago, DeliciousFart said:

As we all know, like every other Halloween vessel, the submarines are obviously modeled after real-life counterparts. Thanks to u/teo_storm1, the counterparts are given below.

After looking at the data from gamemodels3d on tonnage and speed and comparing them to their real-life counterparts, I've created the table below.

Submarine Real life speed (kn) In-game speed (kn) In-game tonnage HP
Gato (Killer Whale) 21 28 2415 12500
Type XXI (Seelöwe) 18 24 2100 11700
Type XXVI (Gerfalcon) 23.5 31 926 8400
X1 (Barracuda) 20 27 2780 13500
M-401 (Zipper Sub) 19 24 208 6400

It's readily apparent that for most of the submarines, WG used the submerged displacement for tonnage (which is larger), with one exception. For some reason, WG decided to use the surface displacement for the X1 as its tonnage, while for all of the other submarines the submerged displacement was used. I'm not sure why that was the case, perhaps this was for balancing as the X1's submerged displacement of 3,600 tons may be considered too much. In any case, when this caveat is taken into account, doing a linear regression on the data series gives the following equation for tonnage-to-HP calculation.

HP = 2.7656 x tonnage + 5837.7

As for speed, it's pretty easy to see that for in-game speed, WG appears to have simply multiplied the real-life top speed (surfaced or submerged) by 133%.

Now, this is simply how WG has decided to balance Halloween submarines, and from data extracted from the public test client. It's entirely possible that this can change with the live Halloween event, and may change further if WG decides to bring submarines into the main game. But from this we may be able to project what some hypothetical submarines may look like if they were implemented using the extant formulas.

Question is, do the subs in the gameplay video have SE installed? I didn't pay attention to the HP in the PTS, so are the HP values from the PTS?

 

And are the real life speeds the speed on the surface with the diesels or underwater with the batteries? How long could they run at full power underwater on battery? Those are the things that I think will be the first things to balance the subs for game play. I'm just no so sure you can get balance play and fun at the same time.

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Well, was waiting for someone to finally tell me what types of submarines were the Halloween ships. Kind of sad I had only two right on my guess but its good to know now. So if this event does do good, and IF, wargames sees it as a good way of increasing gameplay, it appears besides the German line, {which was a give}, we will have an American, British, and Russian submarine line. I hope in the future, we will get a split line of Japanese submarines, with the main line being something along the lines of their end of war variants of midget submarines, and their carrier submarines, maybe. This is just a guess for the long future, and it might not even be implemented if this mission doesn't do go, but I plan on playing the hell out of the Halloween game-mode.

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5 hours ago, Kizarvexis said:

Question is, do the subs in the gameplay video have SE installed? I didn't pay attention to the HP in the PTS, so are the HP values from the PTS?

 

And are the real life speeds the speed on the surface with the diesels or underwater with the batteries? How long could they run at full power underwater on battery? Those are the things that I think will be the first things to balance the subs for game play. I'm just no so sure you can get balance play and fun at the same time.

Most World War 2 era submarines are faster when surfaced than submerged. Before the advent of nuclear propulsion and air-independent propulsion (AIP), submarines spent the majority of their time surfaced. For example, the Gato-class fleet submarine has a top speed of 21 knots surfaced and only 9 knots submerged. The whole reason the German Type XXI U-boat was such an innovation was that it was designed to sustain higher submerged speeds. Consequently its surface speed was only about 15 knots, but its submerged speed was 18 knots. The Type XXI would influence the American Tang class, Soviet Whiskey class, and British Porpoise class.

It was the development of nuclear propulsion that really allowed designers to optimize the hull shape for submerged performance as much as possible, which saw the introduction of the teardrop hull (also called "Lyon shape" due to the research of Hilda Lyon) as seen on the Skipjack class. Skipjack's surfaced speed was only 15 knots but submerged speed was around 30 knots (this speed was reduced slightly when the quieter but less efficient 7 bladed skewback propeller was fitted).

In-game, WG appears to give submarines the same top speed surfaced or submerged, and they usually take the highest of the two.

Edited by DeliciousFart

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Also, wow. Did not think I would find a possible dutch submarine line. Would be cool if they added that to a dutch cruiser and/or destroyer line.
 

 

Maybe Not.

Edited by SteeLeviathan

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Given the date range of the game we should also realise that these would be Tier VIII to Tier X ships so I am really concerned about how badly they would have to mangle the stats of lower tier ships as they are notorious for being MUCH MUCH slower than these late WW2 vessels. The iconic U-boat of the Type 7 class made famous in Das boot has a max speed ot 17 knots so would be stuck at an aenemic 22 knots and would be Tier 6 or 7. Imagine having to drive a torpedo armed Colorado on some of the higher tier maps!

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16 hours ago, Kizarvexis said:

How long could they run at full power underwater on battery?

Read a lot of sub stuff as a kid.

Flat out I think the battery was spent in a couple hours at most. 

At a couple knots they could stay down for a day or so. 

I do remember that the "Max underwater speed" was pretty much never used due to how fast it consumed the battery. 

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It's interesting to note that in the original video where WG showed subs, they didn't have the 133% speed boost, and also had different submerged and surfaced speeds.

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33 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Read a lot of sub stuff as a kid.

Flat out I think the battery was spent in a couple hours at most. 

At a couple knots they could stay down for a day or so. 

I do remember that the "Max underwater speed" was pretty much never used due to how fast it consumed the battery. 

That was my impression too, but I didn't read up as much on subs, especially the WWII diesel subs and there AIP counterparts.

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