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Switching from USN to IJN dd gameplay

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Been grinding on my IJN dds lately (Shiratsuyu on the one line and Kagero on the other.  Have the Herekaze that was given to me as a Premium so help train the captains.

I get tired of TRB and ghosting around so I bounce back to my USN dds (everything from T7-T10) cause I want to fire my guns without feeling guilty.  It takes a few games in Random until I get decent in them unless I play Coop a few times.

Then, when I go back to the IJN ships, it take a few games to get my torp aim back.

I don't have tons of time to play this game.  Is it better to stick with just one nation's dds each night or does it make me a better player to play multiple lines a night?

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I play everything. Maybe I would be better if I focused more... but its a game. Have fun and play what ya want.

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IJN torpedo boats (not the dakka dakkas) are rough right now.

Not only does every other DD outgun you, it SERIOUSLY outguns you.

Power creep has swept the torp boats aside. You can have an occasional success, but it is hard to land torps consistently and you get off 2 salvoes with the guns for every 5 incoming.

Add in the swarm of RN DDs around now you will be constantly trying to get yourself out of bad situations unless you just kite the battlefield edge and pray for a target.

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grind out the akizuki kitakaze and harugumo if you want to use your guns a lot on ijn dds. just remember to have IFHE

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4 hours ago, Sorys said:

grind out the akizuki kitakaze and harugumo if you want to use your guns a lot on ijn dds. just remember to have IFHE

IFHE helps but it’s not as necessary as it was before the super-pen buff. 

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It's better to diversify your gameplay instead of sticking to one. It helps improve your gameplay.

 

People love to berate and insult the IJN torpedoboats, but played properly they can easily outplay gunboat DDs and provide valuable spotting to your team.

Early caps are overrated these days with the presence of radar cruisers, which forces gunboat DDs to play,hilariously, like IJN DDs these days.

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9 hours ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

It's better to diversify your gameplay instead of sticking to one. It helps improve your gameplay.

 

People love to berate and insult the IJN torpedoboats, but played properly they can easily outplay gunboat DDs and provide valuable spotting to your team.

Early caps are overrated these days with the presence of radar cruisers, which forces gunboat DDs to play,hilariously, like IJN DDs these days.

Gearing, Yueyang, and Z52 are better torpedo boats than the Shimakaze (speaking purely at t10).

Gearing has the impressively workable, 90s cooldown fletcher torps.

Yueyang has amazing deep water torps.

Z52 can launch 8 toros every 60 seconds. While not punchy, they do hit a lot and cause floodings.

The not so good:

Khaba, it's a gunboat. Not much to say.

Grozovoi, has very competitive concealment. Torps can be workable. Main damage comes from gunning anything out of existence.

Harugumo, has ridiculous dpm and application, still gets 12 shima torps on demand.

Fence:

Daring. Havent played personally, but if the torps are similar to how the lightning performs, they are very powerful if properly applied. Can dpm anything. Should let it keep the concealment imo.

Shima is worse than all of these dds due to longer reloads on worse torps with worse detectabilty, while at the same time being more vulnerable to the aforementioned.

IJN players dont want to change from "stealth all game and torp". From this, you get a perpetuated garbage ship that has no place in the current game meta. They want everything else nerfed in order to keep their worthless playstyle.

I cannot personally recommend the IJN dd line if you want to have a positive impact on your games and matches. Every other DD line does what you do better, and does what you can't do superbly.

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1 hour ago, The_Painted_Target said:

Gearing, Yueyang, and Z52 are better torpedo boats than the Shimakaze (speaking purely at t10).

Gearing has the impressively workable, 90s cooldown fletcher torps.

Yueyang has amazing deep water torps.

Z52 can launch 8 toros every 60 seconds. While not punchy, they do hit a lot and cause floodings.

The not so good:

Khaba, it's a gunboat. Not much to say.

Grozovoi, has very competitive concealment. Torps can be workable. Main damage comes from gunning anything out of existence.

Harugumo, has ridiculous dpm and application, still gets 12 shima torps on demand.

Fence:

Daring. Havent played personally, but if the torps are similar to how the lightning performs, they are very powerful if properly applied. Can dpm anything. Should let it keep the concealment imo.

Shima is worse than all of these dds due to longer reloads on worse torps with worse detectabilty, while at the same time being more vulnerable to the aforementioned.

IJN players dont want to change from "stealth all game and torp". From this, you get a perpetuated garbage ship that has no place in the current game meta. They want everything else nerfed in order to keep their worthless playstyle.

I cannot personally recommend the IJN dd line if you want to have a positive impact on your games and matches. Every other DD line does what you do better, and does what you can't do superbly.

I think you are under rating Shimakaze.  This usually is due to players not understanding how to play her.  The only other DD that plays like her is Akatsuki, but she doesnt get the concealment advantage Shimakaze currently enjoys.  Torp pressure wise Shima spits out a ton of torpedoes, more than any other T10 DD.  She also has the third highest top speed to move into good launch positions.  That is the key to success with IJN DDs.  You really want to launch into the broadsides of enemy ships. 

When I look at the meta, its particularly punishing to DDs with these sneaky radar CLs running around.  Z-52 is almost completely countered in this meta.  Gearing takes a beating do to its sluggish acceleration and size.  Yue Yang being low in the water fairs better than Gearing but has flaws of having few modules to absorb hits.  This means when it does get hit, it almost always inflicts damage.  Some critical modules, for example the torpedo tubes are destroyed with very minimal damage, For example, I submitted a ticket to report a possible bug with YY torp tube durability when I took 3 DM HE shells in a single volley killing the mount completely from full health, the ticket was answered that it was working as intended.  Grozovoy is fast but has sluggish handling that can put it at risk if it gets caught close.  Grozovoy tends to lose guns pretty often too.  Harugumo has DPM but is really easy to hit.  Thankfully Harugumo has a bunch of short range AA guns that help act like armor absorbing hits that helps with this.  Still she's fundamentally flawed with such bad maneuverability stats I dont like using her as a scout at all.

Contrast this with Shimakaze.  She might be long, but when angled at threats she offers the smallest profile with means natural dispersion is going to cause a lot of misses right off the bat over other DDs.  She has a ton of modules to absorb damage, and unlike Grozovoy, Yue Yang, Gearing, and Z-52 you almost never get critical modules killed when they take hits.  She might have the least HP pool, but a saturated kiting Shimakaze might be the hardest to kill target in the game.  Something I feel is really missed by most is just how good her HP to ton ratio is.  You can pull off dodges no other DD can hope to perform.

image.thumb.png.fb6800e7672797c3e01bbf42e93e0d3e.png

Shimakaze has the speed and agility to speed tank radar like a Russian boat, the module protection to minimize damage better than possibly any other DD (Khaba's armor gets her in trouble as much as it helps IMO).  She can put out volleys of torps better than any other DD.  I've lost count of the DS I have landed on these radar CLs with F3 torps. 

The discussion I had with CUTER over running Shimakaze in Hurricane went like this:

1v1 DD fights are pretty rare these days, even in randoms.  DDs rarely duel to the death.  Most fights are decided by earlier trades where one DD has an HP advantage.  This makes damage avoidance and mitigation more important IMO.  Even when they do happen I win or at least trade the majority of the time.  To note this is against Hurricane DD mains as skilled as I am with DDs, I am not comparing this to random DD players.

Gearing smoke is nice for the deployment length, but lasts too long.  Good teams pull back and refuse to be free farmed.  Gearing smoke often wasted half of the duration, meaning the quick CD did not matter anyways.  Z-52's smoke is too short with a long CD, and YY per my CA players is shorter than they like, but they like the quick CD.  The problem with the quick CD is its hard to be able to spot fleeing targets and make it back in time to resmoke.  Shimakaze and Grozovoy had workable smoke duration, the speed to get around to spot and resmoke. 

That brings us to the torps.  Grozovoy vs Shima is no contest.  Shima wipes the floor with her.  Gearing and YY were good, and excelled at individual things.  To note, against good teams DW torps mean squat.  Most torps are spotted by hydro.  This means every one's torps are spotted at the same time.  It becomes a calculation of torp speed and saturation.  Shimakaze matched the speed with the Type 93 Mod 3 12km torps, and hands down had better saturation.

 

Edited by Destroyer_KuroshioKai
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11 hours ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

It's better to diversify your gameplay instead of sticking to one. It helps improve your gameplay.

 

People love to berate and insult the IJN torpedoboats, but played properly they can easily outplay gunboat DDs and provide valuable spotting to your team.

Early caps are overrated these days with the presence of radar cruisers, which forces gunboat DDs to play,hilariously, like IJN DDs these days.

I will totally agree with you there YY, Lightning and Gearing are fun but Shima is still my favorite still

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The secret of IJN Torpedo boats is distance and patience.  Honestly I feel more like a submarine skipper in this game then a DD skipper in the torp boats. (though I am much faster then any sub would ever be!)    Survival in DD's no matter the type or national flavor is picking your fights not having them picked for you!  (and hey don't get me wrong here.. I know this is "The Way" of course there is the small matter of implementation!  I'm still working on that myself.   Getting better at it  Slowly....!).

In the IJN gunboats if you can control the fight you will win it and quickly (assuming your a good shot) which is good because the longer a gun fight lasts the more that can go wrong!

Remember a ship is just a set of tools.  Its your skill with those tools that make it good.

A really critical skill to develop in higher tier play (where there are 19 point commander EVERYWHERE) is to not lock a targets up with your torpedo sights as there is a specific ONE point commander skill that tells you how many ship have you target locked.. and torpedo locks ARE counted. (they can't tell which is which for certain, but with experience you can make a real good guess due to ones situation)  I get double the amount of torpedo hits AT A MINIMUM when I don't lock targets as when I do at tier 8 and above play.  The skill is very commonly used by cruiser and BB players!   If you can master that skill you will hit with a lot more torps at long ranges.. the target is much less likely  to make defensive maneuvers to avoid what they don't know is heading toward them.   Every time I forget this I have a horrid day playing torp boats.  When I do remember I tend to get Confederate, High Caliber, the occasional Kraken and 150k damage matches.

TRB is a very nice thing in random..in clan battles it's still very useful. sometimes the trick is to not focus on getting as many torps in the water as possible in the shortest amount of time amount of time  (situational, sometime a good idea though ,mostly a waste of torps though). if they think you still have ready torps they may not be quite so anxious to rush your dry tubes self.   The down side of smoke is.. they know where to find you! And smoking up around a radar cruiser will tend to just get you killed while your driving slow or even not moving.   In organized team play (clan wars) where players are communicating it can be a liability that serves only two real uses that wont get you insta deleted and that is getting opposing teams to burn a radar charge or expend torps.  The other use is to block the LOS for friendly ships while they are re-positioning and not shooting. 

A reason to not always go full concealment build    You'll be less tempted to get any closer to the bad guys then you need to!  Keep it in mind!  Its a lot easier to avoid errors mistakes you'll know will be punished if you all ready know your weak in an area. Concealment module removal and or not speccing Concealment expert can be offset to a certain extent while also granting additional capabilities by mounting the Target Acquisition Module, and/or RPF. 

 

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