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capncrunch21

Submarine deck guns - secondaries or 'main' gun control?

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I was wondering how most people think deck guns should work on Submarines in-game.

Currently on the Test Server, the Halloween subs have deck guns that work just like secondaries while on the surface. While this allows the player to concentrate on moving the sub and firing torps, it does take away the more accurate player aimed fire.

I can see why WG decided to try this route first, with the fast paced up and down positioning and difficulty in maneuvering for a torpedo attack. The controls already have a player scrambling to get stuff done. However, I would really like to control these guns (like cruisers who can swap between guns and torps). But perhaps that is just a death wish, seeing how trying to 'artillery duel' with anything other than another sub would be suicidal (with a usually single 5 inch deck gun and next to no hit points or armor). The only way to kind of do this is to take the 'manual secondaries' skill, but man, what a waste of 4 commander points for so little firepower.

What do you all think? Would you like control of your sub's deck guns? Or is 'secondary battery' truly the smart way to go? (With unique subs like the French Surcouf being the exception?)

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I can't wait to engage high tier battleships with a single 88mm! Awesome, amazing firepower! That'll be sure to make them think twice about engaging me!

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9 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

But perhaps that is just a death wish, seeing how trying to 'artillery duel' with anything other than another sub would be suicidal (with a usually single 5 inch deck gun and next to no hit points or armor). 

I agree with this.^ 

I thought about it myself but I came to the conclusion subs have so little real gun firepower and durability that it probably isn't worth manual control. Even T1 colonial gunboats can outgun them badly. You also can't really target meaningfully with one gun. May as well let the AI do it. You'll have enough things to monitor (torpedo aim, depth, air etc.) without bothering to have to target the deck guns. If they implement Surcouf or a similar sub then I'll revise my opinion. Here's the French submarine Surcouf for those unfamiliar with it. 

Spoiler

See the source image
 

 

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2 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

Here's the French submarine Surcouf for those unfamiliar with it. 

There is a Submarine, that I would like to see in game.

18 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

Or is 'secondary battery' truly the smart way to go?

Secondary Battery would be my choice

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Barley worth the space to create the thread.

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Secondary only for the event. 

If WG goes nuts with some of the more crazy sub designs then I would love to have direct control for the big main batteries. For most subs single tank caliber deck gun secondary control is fine with me.

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I wouldn't mind being able to manually control my little pop gun.  That said if you're using the thing at all you've probably made a mistake.

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Just make it a single ultra-accurate (for a secondary, so still badly drunk gunners) secondary about as good as a Manual Secondary gun. Until we get into the french Surcouf Submarine-Cruiser... rise to surface 4km off an enemy's broadside and drive two 203mm AP shells into their cits, submerge and leave? :)

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A PT boat with only 50 cals and 20mm cannons would be able to damage a Sub to the point that it couldn’t dive. 

I don’t think it’s worth wasting time over. 

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Probably the only way to get some damage would be to be in someones smoke and then fire away for a few miniscule points I would imagine.... otherwise...maybe the risk is not worth it. 

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Secondary only, the deck gun was only ever used for plinking merchants when they had the time and didn't want to expend a costly torpedo. Even the fabled Sourcouf with twin 203mm guns will loose a gun duel with anything other than a Mtsucky base hull.

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1 hour ago, Lert said:

I can't wait to engage high tier battleships with a single 88mm! Awesome, amazing firepower! That'll be sure to make them think twice about engaging me!

So would ifhe be mandatory on it or what?

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3 minutes ago, monpetitloup said:

So would ifhe be mandatory on it or what?

Let's see ...

88mm is a German caliber and German HE tends to have a quarter caliber rule, so 88 / 4 = 22, with IFHE this would become 28.6, which will allow it to directly damage 25mm and 27mm extremity plating, which is very common at mid / high tiers.

So, yes.

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1 hour ago, FirestormMk3 said:

I wouldn't mind being able to manually control my little pop gun.  That said if you're using the thing at all you've probably made a mistake.

Oh God pop guns. First time I worked at Cabelas we got a shipment of thousands of those. Had to remove them from their bags, slap a price tag on it and then off to the floor. That was my whole shift one night was pop guns. Day shifters hated me after that.

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Deck guns were used on smaller ships not worth a torpedo and to pick off the crippled ships no longer able to keep up with the convoy. No sub skipper would engage a DD or larger warship with a single deck gun.

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2 hours ago, Lert said:

I can't wait to engage high tier battleships with a single 88mm! Awesome, amazing firepower! That'll be sure to make them think twice about engaging me!

Playing Silent Service II on my Atari ST I once engaged a Yamato class BB using my Improved Gato's deck gun.  I hit it once and then it hit me once and then I got the screen showing a wreath floating on the water that was shown when your submarine failed to return from its patrol.  The game gave me 3 points for the damage I did to the Yamato.

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When you fired the Surcouf's guns  you would get an auto flood on yourself...that is what happened when they fired her guns...interesting idea, typical French or Italian thinking, but limited practicality.  Her guns were very inaccurate...should have worst sigma in the game. (had to be almost a flat calm to hit anything)  Subs in general for WoWS would be an work of futility, and after a while few people would bother playing them.  Considering the work that WG would have to do to make subs viable in the game...adding depth charges to ships, sonar, planes spotting, map placement(because starting them anywhere outside the middle of the map means you drive for 10 minutes, make one attack and then die) etc....when there are REAL problems to fix like, radar, CVs, behooves WG to work on problems in the game rather than ADD more problems... because subs will do that.

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2 hours ago, Helstrem said:

Playing Silent Service II on my Atari ST I once engaged a Yamato class BB using my Improved Gato's deck gun.  I hit it once and then it hit me once and then I got the screen showing a wreath floating on the water that was shown when your submarine failed to return from its patrol.  The game gave me 3 points for the damage I did to the Yamato.

lmbo...

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Deck guns should be controllable, not the least for scenarios.  That said, there are plenty of times you end up with targets with absolutely ridiculous hp (like 12) that are perfect for an opportunistic strike, especially if you have to surface anyway.

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Secondary is fine by me.  Lets you concentrate on what you need to be doing and let your little guns do something in the mean time.  I also think having them be secondary will discourage people from doing silly things,  like trying to get into a gun fight with...basically anything.  But I do think they should at least have improved accuracy so that if you have a target sitting at 10 hit points you aren't screaming in frustration as your drunken gunners shoot wildly at the water a quarter a mile away from your actual target.

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For variety sake, I'd say make then as a main battery. Sure, 76mm wont pen much at either tier; but they would be good at interrupting ships capping while using terrain for concealment.

Guns could also be used to gun down other enemy subs when torpedoes are neither an option or a risk.

Yes, make submarine deck guns main batteries instead of secodaries.

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How????? We cant get acces to gun deck???? Ohhh Noooo..... what can I do with this then....Sky4.jpg.fd89703ff6177ed5dd62e3f1c81eeee0.jpg

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20 minutes ago, Feyevich said:

How????? We cant get acces to gun deck???? Ohhh Noooo..... what can I do with this then....Sky4.jpg.fd89703ff6177ed5dd62e3f1c81eeee0.jpg

Plenty, but only when they bring missiles into the game. :cap_haloween:

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20 hours ago, Lert said:

I can't wait to engage high tier battleships with a single 88mm! Awesome, amazing firepower! That'll be sure to make them think twice about engaging me!

Classic Lert just classic line

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21 hours ago, Lert said:

I can't wait to engage high tier battleships with a single 88mm! Awesome, amazing firepower! That'll be sure to make them think twice about engaging me!

 

on the other hand as the surface detection range is going to be very low, there may be a range you can stealth fire your peashooter.

 

death by a thousand cuts is still death....

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