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Kizarvexis

Dev Blog British ships, Vanguard & Wichita

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Besides the update news on West Virginia '41 and WV late war, there are updates on British ships and Wichita

 

ST. British ships.

In the 0.7.10 update cooldown of the standard consumable "Smoke Generator" for the researchable British destroyers and Cossack will be fixed.

Since the addition of the unique "Smoke Generator" for British destroyers, the difference between standard and premium consumable was 20 seconds (60 and 80 in the first stage of testing and 70 and 90 in the second) instead of 50% as it should be.

In update 0.7.10 we will fix this bug and bring the reloading of "Smoke Generator I" consumable to the system, now this value will be equal to 105 seconds. The changes do not affect the recharge time of the "Smoke Generator II" consumable.

 

The parameters of the consumable "Engine Boost" for the British destroyer Cossack will be changed. This fixes a bug that resulted in lower cornering speeds with activated "Engine Boost" consumable than without it.

 

Cruiser I tier Black Swan: increased reload time of Main Battery from 4 to 6 seconds. The changes put the ship at the same one level of combat effectiveness with class rivals.

 

Tier X destroyer Daring: increased surface detectability Range from 7.2 to 7.6 km and detectability when shooting from smoke screen to 2.61 km, the duration time of the equipment "Repair Party" is reduced from 15 to 10 seconds.

 

Tier IX destroyer Jutland: increased surface detectability Range from 7.0 to 7.25 km and detectability when shooting from smoke screen to 2.47 km, the duration time of the equipment "Repair Party" is reduced from 15 to 10 seconds.

 

Increased detectability range will allow destroyers with less visibility and weaker weaponry to perform the evasion maneuver in a timely manner and get away from the battle, keeping most of the Hit Points. At the same time, British ships still have very high damage per second. Reducing the time of the "Repair team" should lower the average life time of ships in battle, bringing it to a close value with class rivels(sp rivals).

 

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ST. Pre-configuration of test ships.

In preparation for testing, the parameters of the following ships were changed:

American cruiser Wichita, VIII tier:

Increased the sector of fire of all the weaponry;
Main Battery reload time reduced from 12 to 10 seconds;
Rudder Shift Time reduced from 9.86 to 7.78 seconds;
Changed the characteristics of the consumable "Surveillance Radar":
Duration reduced from 30 to 25 seconds;
Detection range is reduced from 9 to 8.5 km.

 

British battleship Vanguard, VIII tier:

Increased armor penetration parameter HE shells from 63 to 95 mm;
The fuse AP shells has a value of 0.015 instead of 0.033;
Sigma parameter increased from 1.8 to 2.0;
Main Battery rotation speed increased from 2.5 to 4 deg./sec.;
Repair Party now repairs 60% of normal damage instead of 50% and 33% of citadel damage instead of 10%.
UPD. Main Battery reload time reduced from 30 to 28 second

 

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7 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ST. Pre-configuration of test ships.

In preparation for testing, the parameters of the following ships were changed:

American cruiser Wichita, VIII tier:

Increased the sector of fire of all the weaponry;
Main Battery reload time reduced from 12 to 10 seconds;
Rudder Shift Time reduced from 9.86 to 7.78 seconds;
Changed the characteristics of the consumable "Surveillance Radar":
Duration reduced from 30 to 25 seconds;
Detection range is reduced from 9 to 8.5 km.

 

British battleship Vanguard, VIII tier:

Increased armor penetration parameter HE shells from 63 to 95 mm;
The fuse AP shells has a value of 0.015 instead of 0.033;
Sigma parameter increased from 1.8 to 2.0;
Main Battery rotation speed increased from 2.5 to 4 deg./sec.;
Repair Party now repairs 60% of normal damage instead of 50% and 33% of citadel damage instead of 10%.
UPD. Main Battery reload time reduced from 30 to 28 second

 

So Wichita is basically going to get borderline DD levels of stealth when fully equipped?

And Vanguard basically gets all the Royal Navy BB gimmicks now.  No surprise there.

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I love all these changes. Wichita needed both a DPM boost as it was noticeably worse than Baltimore, and it needed a radar nerf to account for it's amazing concealment. So looks balanced now.

Vanguard's guns are now much more reliable, and the turret rotation is great. Makes her gunnery more enjoyable. Only thing they need to make sure to address is the citadel size as shown off by CCs on the test server. I'm hoping it's just a modeling error as her citadel currently is the size of a WW1 era battleship all on it's own, lol. If they make her citadel similar to the other RN BBs (not counting Nelson as Nelson has a superheal at tier 7), then I'd be happy to get her. Would also seem balanced.

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10 minutes ago, RagingxMarmoset said:

The changes are generally good. I'd prefer that they dropped radar from Wichita and added a heal instead.

That would be nice, but I think the devs want to keep at least some radar in there as that's national flavor.

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The one thing the RN DDs have is detection range. That nerf is going to hurt

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While I'm still concerned about Vanguard's AP pen and citadel size, she's getting closer to being Warspite 2 and that's good.

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Daring and Jutland concealment nerf is necessary. They already are at 5.5km concealment max, and can easily destroy Kagerou, Yuugumo and Shimakaze with them not being able to fight back, and their superior concealment allows them to dictate the engagement against other gunboat DDs.

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2 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Daring and Jutland concealment nerf is necessary. They already are at 5.5km concealment max, and can easily destroy Kagerou, Yuugumo and Shimakaze with them not being able to fight back, and their superior concealment allows them to dictate the engagement against other gunboat DDs.

 

Wasn't their concealment at 5.7 with max skills/mods?

 

Also, their speed does't allow them to dictate range so they really can't dictate anything. If any DD pushes you there is no escape. 

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25 minutes ago, Flashtirade said:

While I'm still concerned about Vanguard's AP pen and citadel size, she's getting closer to being Warspite 2 and that's good.

That short-fuze AP is going to be murder on cruisers of all kinds. She's looking more like "I could try to win this ship if offered" (and oh God, I just promised in print on these forums I was going to take a break from that) and less like "If a supercontainer came along..." material.

 

4 minutes ago, Schindlers_Stink_Fist said:

The nerf to Daring's conceal was too high. Now it's the slowest tier X DD and it will have Z-52 conceal.

 

Fail.

She's a tech-tree ship, so they can always buff her back if in-game experience in the first patch or two is awful. There are without doubt people who have the free XP to jump to her the minute she unlocks, regardless of what she's like, and we will find out how the nerfs affect her in short order. And if you read closely,

50 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

Tier X destroyer Daring: increased surface detectability Range from 7.2 to 7.6 km and detectability when shooting from smoke screen to 2.61 km, the duration time of the equipment "Repair Party" is reduced from 15 to 10 seconds.

 

Tier IX destroyer Jutland: increased surface detectability Range from 7.0 to 7.25 km and detectability when shooting from smoke screen to 2.47 km, the duration time of the equipment "Repair Party" is reduced from 15 to 10 seconds.

 

it's on the order of a 250m to 400m nerf without concealment mods or captain bonuses. Relax. Chill. See what happens. Then judge. Because this person...

4 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Daring and Jutland concealment nerf is necessary. They already are at 5.5km concealment max, and can easily destroy Kagerou, Yuugumo and Shimakaze with them not being able to fight back, and their superior concealment allows them to dictate the engagement against other gunboat DDs.

is seeing it in context, and IMO they are right.

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4 minutes ago, Schindlers_Stink_Fist said:

 

Wasn't their concealment at 5.7 with max skills/mods?

 

Also, their speed does't allow them to dictate range so they really can't dictate anything. If any DD pushes you there is no escape. 

Given how much dakka dakka the daring has it would be the other dd trying to escape.

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Yeah I'd rather have heal than radar on Wichita also.   We'll see.  Love the ship. . . hopefully in game it is fun.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

That short-fuze AP is going to be murder on cruisers of all kinds. She's looking more like "I could try to win this ship if offered" (and oh God, I just promised in print on these forums I was going to take a break from that) and less like "If a supercontainer came along..." material.

Vanguard's guns are going to be similar to Warspite's guns, except on a T8 ship that will often see T10 opponents. I don't think I've had any issues penning cruisers with Warspite, so the short fuses against targets with more armor doesn't really make sense to me. If anything, I think Vanguard would need more penetration or better autobounce angles.

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I totally disagree with the concealment changes to Daring (sorry, didn't see you posted about that too). The whole RN DD flavor is low concealment in exchange for being the slowest DDs. At 35 knots with no speed boost, Daring will get absolutely smoked at tier 10 whenever another DD outspots her. The only DDs with worse concealment are Z-52 who's Hydro extends to near her concealment and can bully out any other DD from a cap, and Grozovoi that is more of a support DD with wickedly good long range gunnery. Khab is of course not a DD but a light cruiser.

I'd personally rather they keep the excellent concealment on Daring and just remove the Repair Party altogether.

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35 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

At 35 knots with no speed boost, Daring will get absolutely smoked at tier 10 whenever another DD outspots her.

I think it's a problem certainly, though at least if you have to use a smoke to get out of it you have a good number to burn through.

55 minutes ago, Flashtirade said:

Vanguard's guns are going to be similar to Warspite's guns, except on a T8 ship that will often see T10 opponents.

She does get supercharges, at 15km I think probably ~440mm of penetration instead of Warspite's 372mm. A useful improvement.

That's based on (u/Careoran post on reddit) this: https://gyazo.com/cafc514bca94c284ce5f53a887563586

While Bismarck gets about 456mm of pen at 15km you can see Vanguard trails only slightly.

Whether or not an 18% penetration improvement at T8 over T6 is enough for seeing T10's with 400mm belts is a good point.

2 hours ago, Ace_04 said:

So Wichita is basically going to get borderline DD levels of stealth when fully equipped?

I think you're mis-reading her radar range as her concealment. She's getting 8.5km radar range. Her detection is unchanged and is best-case 8.7km if I remember correctly.

While this means she can't stealth-radar, crossing 0.2km on a closing DD is pretty trivial.

2 hours ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Daring and Jutland concealment nerf is necessary. They already are at 5.5km concealment max, and can easily destroy Kagerou, Yuugumo and Shimakaze with them not being able to fight back, and their superior concealment allows them to dictate the engagement against other gunboat DDs.

I'm not sure there, Daring was 5.7 and Jutland 5.5. Jutland was stealthy but had pretty similar DPM to Fletcher all things considered.

Not so long ago Shimakaze had 5.9km concealment, the same as Gearing and close to the others and it wasn't the end of the world. The procedure wasn't too different - turn out, smoke, fire with good aft-firing turret arrangement.

Nerfing Jutland and Daring concealment nerfs them against all the dozens of T8-T10 ships, not just against Shima, Yugumo and Kagero.

While it's tough being Shima 5.6km from Daring, it's tough being daring 10.5km away from some nice BB begging to be torped too.

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1 hour ago, Flashtirade said:

I don't think I've had any issues penning cruisers with Warspite, so the short fuses against targets with more armor doesn't really make sense to me.

The thing I was referring to was the potential for overpens against cruisers to be significantly reduced; we may see a statistical uptick in the number of CL and CA Dev strikes, from T6 all the way up. Destroyer captains might not like it either.

You raise an important point about whether it will get deep enough into Tier IX/X battleship hulls, but I think other factors are operative there too. I will be waiting with interest to see what the high-level number-crunchers like Mouse and iChase have to say about it once they've had a chance to run the math. You might not blow out citadels, but as with US super-heavy cruiser shells you might take off a hell of a lot of HP with upper-belt hits. If there is a problem in initial supertest they might have to lengthen the fuze time, but again it'll possibly be a backroom exercise we won't get to see in detail and which will almost certainly be NDA territory for anyone who does.

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7 minutes ago, mofton said:

I think you're mis-reading her radar range as her concealment. She's getting 8.5km radar range. Her detection is unchanged and is best-case 8.7km if I remember correctly.

While this means she can't stealth-radar, crossing 0.2km on a closing DD is pretty trivial.

8.7km surface detection is still Belfast levels of ridiculousness.  Especially considering she shares the bulk of her hull and setup with the Baltimore-class cruisers, which have a much higher detection range.

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3 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

8.7km surface detection is still Belfast levels of ridiculousness.  Especially considering she shares the bulk of her hull and setup with the Baltimore-class cruisers, which have a much higher detection range.

Yep. Even without stealth radar, at a closing speed of 40kt if the DD's coming toward you it's 2s until they're in your radar envelope.

This ship pretty much spots the same as the low-tier RN light cruisers, outspots Edinburgh and then has radar and 8in SHS at 6 RPM to deal with it, heck outspots Neptune and Minotaur.

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3 hours ago, RagingxMarmoset said:

The changes are generally good. I'd prefer that they dropped radar from Wichita and added a heal instead.

This.  We don't need more radar, and I am a cruiser main.

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