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SubTender_Taigei

Buff the Black please

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Black is one of those really awkward ships in port that you both want to play and not at the same time. It's pretty, its cool, its unique, and exclusive. But jeezums, its not a fun ship to play at all. The torps are horrendously bad at 44 knots, none of the other stats matter if they cant even hit one. Theres zero skill involved with hitting them, either some enemy sailed in a straight line for 90 seconds, or you hit something you werent even targeting. Thats cool and all but come on, how often does that really happen? The torps are way too frustrating to use simply because of their speed, and the ship doesnt have enough perks to make up for such an inconsistent form of damage. Its not a gunboat like the Russians cause of USN shell velocities, and it has the worst radar in the game. No matter if it has radar and smoke, when said radar is a whopping 7.5km and lasts for 25 seconds. Whew, truly gamebreaking OP stuff there. Fletcher is miles better than her, and now with Chung Mu, just give Black something so that shes not so frustrating to play.

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Never mind the fact its going to get power creeped by hydro dd's getting longer spotting ranges with their hydro's....

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Well I am not sure what to think of this. Buff a ship that only some of the best players in the game have?

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I'm not sure where you want performance to go, but it has a 9% higher win rate than the next highest ship, and does 13% better than the Fletcher with the addition of radar and removal of Fletcher torpedoes.

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Dear WG jesus, please buff the OPs Black just for them because they are a very special player and very special players need special buffs. 

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8 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

qd6GCzH.png

I'm not sure where you want performance to go, but it has a 9% higher win rate than the next highest ship, and does 13% better than the Fletcher with the addition of radar and removal of Fletcher torpedoes.

I looked that up when I saw the post. A ship that is best in type for every thing but plane kills and that is not terrible doesn't need buffs.

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1 hour ago, SubTender_Taigei said:

Black is one of those really awkward ships in port that you both want to play and not at the same time. It's pretty, its cool, its unique, and exclusive. But jeezums, its not a fun ship to play at all. The torps are horrendously bad at 44 knots, none of the other stats matter if they cant even hit one. Theres zero skill involved with hitting them, either some enemy sailed in a straight line for 90 seconds, or you hit something you werent even targeting. Thats cool and all but come on, how often does that really happen? The torps are way too frustrating to use simply because of their speed, and the ship doesnt have enough perks to make up for such an inconsistent form of damage. Its not a gunboat like the Russians cause of USN shell velocities, and it has the worst radar in the game. No matter if it has radar and smoke, when said radar is a whopping 7.5km and lasts for 25 seconds. Whew, truly gamebreaking OP stuff there. Fletcher is miles better than her, and now with Chung Mu, just give Black something so that shes not so frustrating to play.

Only if we buff Belfast while we are at it...

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16 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

I'm not sure where you want performance to go, but it has a 9% higher win rate than the next highest ship, and does 13% better than the Fletcher with the addition of radar and removal of Fletcher torpedoes.

5 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I looked that up when I saw the post. A ship that is best in type for every thing but plane kills and that is not terrible doesn't need buffs.

I am not saying the Black needs buffs.....but the server stats are completely worthless for this thing based on the player base that has access to it and should not be used as justification for or against buffing it.  

The majority of the players who have access to the Black are those that successfully ranked out on 5 separate occasions, while everyone else who has it are players that managed to earn enough steel through Clan Battles and the last ranked season.  Not everyone who ranks out is necessarily a good player, but as a rule of thumb any ship that is mostly in the hands of players who have ranked out on 5 separate occasions is going to perform far better than the average tier 9 ship.  

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Umm. The Black is a gun boat first, and a very very strong one.  When played to it's strengths it is more then a bit OP.   If you have one its theoretically because your a superior player.  On the  other hand it is a DD and the DD driver skill set is quite different then that of a CV, or BB, or CA driver.  Time to develop those mad DD skills.

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5 minutes ago, yashma said:

I am not saying the Black needs buffs.....but the server stats are completely worthless for this thing based on the player base that has access to it and should not be used as justification for or against buffing it.  

The majority of the players who have access to the Black are those that successfully ranked out on 5 separate occasions, while everyone else who has it are players that managed to earn enough steel through Clan Battles and the last ranked season.  Not everyone who ranks out is necessarily a good player, but as a rule of thumb any ship that is mostly in the hands of players who have ranked out on 5 separate occasions is going to perform far better than the average tier 9 ship.  

Do the players that have the Black really need a helping hand? Basing buffs on how the top players are doing helps the top players a lot more than the lesser players and basing nerfs on how the top players are doing hurts the lesser players a lot more then the top players.

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6 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Do the players that have the Black really need a helping hand? Basing buffs on how the top players are doing helps the top players a lot more than the lesser players and basing nerfs on how the top players are doing hurts the lesser players a lot more then the top players.

I never said the Black needed buffs nor was I comment on the current state of her balance.  I just took issue with the flawed use of statistics and wanted to set the issue straight.

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6 minutes ago, yashma said:

I never said the Black needed buffs nor was I comment on the current state of her balance.  I just took issue with the flawed use of statistics and wanted to set the issue straight.

I know you didn't but the OP did. They only way to see if a ship like the Black needs buffs or nerfs is to put it into the hands of average players. If it still over performs it needs nerfs and if it under performs it needs buffs.

Edit: it is too bad it is tier 9 and not 10 because that would allow it to be used in CW and they could see how it performs in the hands of mere mortals.

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9 minutes ago, yashma said:

I am not saying the Black needs buffs.....but the server stats are completely worthless for this thing based on the player base that has access to it and should not be used as justification for or against buffing it.  

The majority of the players who have access to the Black are those that successfully ranked out on 5 separate occasions, while everyone else who has it are players that managed to earn enough steel through Clan Battles and the last ranked season.  Not everyone who ranks out is necessarily a good player, but as a rule of thumb any ship that is mostly in the hands of players who have ranked out on 5 separate occasions is going to perform far better than the average tier 9 ship.  

 

We can examine individual brackets. The top 50% of Black players, which I think is fair to say "these are people who have obtained Black and know how to play DDs, and have roughly the same skill level to rank out" have a 73% WR, comparable to the top 10% of all other DDs

5ew4BlV.png

When we compare this subset to the top 10% of DD players, which by definition is super-unicum DD players.

xQMpMXT.png

The Black comes in right below Chung Mu and Kitakaze, both of which are remarkably strong ships. In fact, it isn't until we look at 5% general pop that we see its win rate middling.

EyFicyt.png

 

The Black's torpedoes may be remarkably awkward to write home about compared to most destroyer torpedoes, but that's like saying a cruiser like the Worcester is awkward to play because it has no torpedoes, or that Harugumo is inferior because it only has 1x6 torpedo launcher compared to 3x5 Shimakaze.

The Black's strength is that it comes on a very strong destroyer platform and has access to both radar and smoke, a lethal combination which no other ship in the game has. Pan-Asian destroyers have to give up smoke for radar, and Germans have significantly shorter range and worse smoke, and cannot realistically stealth sonar without it.

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1 hour ago, Compassghost said:

qd6GCzH.png

I'm not sure where you want performance to go, but it has a 9% higher win rate than the next highest ship, and does 13% better than the Fletcher with the addition of radar and removal of Fletcher torpedoes.

Be fair, Compassghost.  It's only being played by the best of the best, so it's hardly fair to compare it to any other DD out there.

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1 hour ago, lemekillmister said:

a very special player and very special players need special buffs. 

Why do you think they super buffed BBs early on in the development of the game?

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14 minutes ago, The_Painted_Target said:

Why do you think they super buffed BBs early on in the development of the game?

Who said I ever thought or cared about such a thing to begin with? 

 

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3 hours ago, SubTender_Taigei said:

Black is one of those really awkward ships in port that you both want to play and not at the same time. It's pretty, its cool, its unique, and exclusive. But jeezums, its not a fun ship to play at all. The torps are horrendously bad at 44 knots, none of the other stats matter if they cant even hit one. Theres zero skill involved with hitting them, either some enemy sailed in a straight line for 90 seconds, or you hit something you werent even targeting. Thats cool and all but come on, how often does that really happen? The torps are way too frustrating to use simply because of their speed, and the ship doesnt have enough perks to make up for such an inconsistent form of damage. Its not a gunboat like the Russians cause of USN shell velocities, and it has the worst radar in the game. No matter if it has radar and smoke, when said radar is a whopping 7.5km and lasts for 25 seconds. Whew, truly gamebreaking OP stuff there. Fletcher is miles better than her, and now with Chung Mu, just give Black something so that shes not so frustrating to play.

wanting a buff to a ship that was deemed OP upon its arrival because of it having radar and all that

 

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I trudged through over 100 battles in Black, so Im not wack for saying this, im just putting out how I experienced the ship. Im really finding it hard how anyone can think Black is OP. Everyone says its because of radar and smoke combo. But guess what, said radar is 7.5km and 25 seconds, literally the worst in the game. You dont even have firepower like cruisers, so its very hard to do crippling damage. After radar, what can you do? Shoot some torps that never hit things unless they sail in a straight line. The thing isnt necessarily terrible, but it sure feels like it with the torps it has. It absolutely either needs a buff to its torps, or form a role as only a knife-fighter with much better guns or radar, or literally anything so it isnt such a piece of hot garbage

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