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HMCS_Devilfish

IFHE or DE .. but not both?

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Just checked my Captain skills on Hindenburg and Zao both 19 point Captains and on both ships IFHE is blocked, it says the ship is not configured for this skill, when and what is the change ... it’s a Cruiser with big guns for god sakes

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The skill isn't blocked, you can still pick it. The reason it's 'not efficient' with those ships is because IFHE on 203mm guns is questionable at best and a waste of four points at worst.

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They have some weird rules for how they categorize the captain skills.  Just ignore them and get it anyway if you want it.

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55 minutes ago, Lert said:

The skill isn't blocked, you can still pick it. The reason it's 'not efficient' with those ships is because IFHE on 203mm guns is questionable at best and a waste of four points at worst.

Those are really only general suggestions and you have to base using that skill on that ship on your experience. There are some wild although often situational captains builds such as IFHE on the Nelson, standard penetrations with HE against bow on cruisers for example.

55 minutes ago, TheDreadnought said:

They have some weird rules for how they categorize the captain skills.  Just ignore them and get it anyway if you want it.

This, if you feel you are going to benefit from that skill take it.

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1 hour ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

Just checked my Captain skills on Hindenburg and Zao both 19 point Captains and on both ships IFHE is blocked, it says the ship is not configured for this skill, when and what is the change ... it’s a Cruiser with big guns for god sakes

I have IFHE on my Mass captain... and the skill now has a big no symbol over it.

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22 minutes ago, Gen_Saris said:

I have IFHE on my Mass captain... and the skill now has a big no symbol over it.

But some German ships have IFHE backed into the ship, so what's the value in taking it again?  That's probably why is has the not recommended symbol over the IFHE skill in the first place.

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2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

But some German ships have IFHE backed into the ship, so what's the value in taking it again?  That's probably why is has the not recommended symbol over the IFHE skill in the first place.

My apologies for the confusion... Mass as in battleship Massachusetts, not Maass the German DD.

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28 minutes ago, Gen_Saris said:

I have IFHE on my Mass captain... and the skill now has a big no symbol over it.

You are showing your age using that abbreviation for the state. :Smile_hiding: I am from Minn.

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

But some German ships have IFHE backed into the ship, so what's the value in taking it again?  That's probably why is has the not recommended symbol over the IFHE skill in the first place.

That may very well be true but it is also blocked on my Zao, the skill does work on Vllll and under Cruisers, it did work when I first put it on some months ago and it did make a difference in damage done .. time to file a ticket, I should not have to pay  about a 1000 Doubloons to change there change

1615237D-CCBB-42CD-A8E8-B73B457F2AD0.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Lert said:

The skill isn't blocked, you can still pick it. The reason it's 'not efficient' with those ships is because IFHE on 203mm guns is questionable at best and a waste of four points at worst.

 

On topic but not same situation/ship .. I've always found it odd that BB shells like Yamato's have such poor penetration even with IFHE (yeah I tried it during the free respect week)... given that if you think about it, an 18 inch shell's explosive power should have significant punch compared to a measly 8 inch gun yet neither zao's nor Yamato's HE can citadel a light cruiser even with IFHE.

 

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1 minute ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

That may very well be true but it is also blocked on my Zao, the skill does work on Vllll and under Cruisers, it did work when I first put it on some months ago and it did make a difference in damage done .. time to file a ticket, I should not have to pay  about a 1000 Doubloons to change there change

 

The no symbol doesn't mean the skill is blocked. The skill still works and you can still choose it, the symbol is merely an indication for newer players what skills may not be optimal for a particular ship.

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2 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

I've always found it odd that BB shells like Yamato's have such poor penetration even with IFHE (yeah I tried it during the free respect week)

Most HE shells have a 1/6 pen rule. This means they can defeat armor with a thickness 1/6 the caliber of the shell. In Yamato's case this means it can apply direct damage to 76mm armor plates and thinner.

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9 minutes ago, Lert said:

Most HE shells have a 1/6 pen rule. This means they can defeat armor with a thickness 1/6 the caliber of the shell. In Yamato's case this means it can apply direct damage to 76mm armor plates and thinner.

that 1/6th caliber is the odd rule that makes it that way. A Yamato HE round should vaporize a light cruiser or destroyer (and yes, they do arm). But in the game you hit a DD with a Yamato HE and it does not apply the full damage ..nor to a light cruiser. Yet it does to a BB or cruiser superstructure (which ironically have more armor than a DD).

Have it hit a Khabarovsk's 50mm plate and the damage is significantly lower than if it hit a minotaur for example. just weird stuff

 

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11 minutes ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

That may very well be true but it is also blocked on my Zao

IT'S NOT BLOCKED. You can still pick it. It still does what it's always done. It's just a graphical warning for noobs. That's all this is. Nothing's changed.

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18 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

You are showing your age using that abbreviation for the state. :Smile_hiding: I am from Minn.

FLA reporting for duty.

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21 minutes ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

That may very well be true but it is also blocked on my Zao, the skill does work on Vllll and under Cruisers, it did work when I first put it on some months ago and it did make a difference in damage done .. time to file a ticket, I should not have to pay  about a 1000 Doubloons to change there change

1615237D-CCBB-42CD-A8E8-B73B457F2AD0.jpeg

It's not blocked, you still have it.  It's not recommended because it's bad for Zao.

Also, it works on ships under T8 too.  IFHE should only be on ships with 155mm or lower main guns, OR BB captains that want it for secondaries.  On 203mm armed cruisers, it is a waste in most situations.

Edited by crzyhawk
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Jesus people nothing changed.  Still the same rules as before, but they put on training wheels for new players.

 

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It is not blocked, it is telling you that it is inefficient skill to have. However, that recommendation only takes the main batteries into consideration, not secondary batteries.

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35 minutes ago, Lert said:

IT'S NOT BLOCKED. You can still pick it. It still does what it's always done. It's just a graphical warning for noobs. That's all this is. Nothing's changed.

Thanks :Smile_honoring:

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3 hours ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

Just checked my Captain skills on Hindenburg and Zao both 19 point Captains and on both ships IFHE is blocked, it says the ship is not configured for this skill, when and what is the change ... it’s a Cruiser with big guns for god sakes

The ONLY thing IFHE can pen with 203mm guns is Iowa, Montana, and Yamato/Musahi deck armor. That's it.  Pretty much a waste 4 points. And it is completely useless on the Hindenburg since German HE already has 1/4 pen. The only exception is the Henri - IFHE allow it to pend Khaba belt armor, Moskva plating, and GK deck.  Still a questionable use of a skill. 

This is like the 3rd thread over the last couple days where IFHE's use has been discussed.  Flamu breaks it down in the below video, and the thresholds and usefulness of IFHE are detailed at the link below. 

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_thresholds

 

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2 minutes ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

The ONLY thing IFHE can pen with 203mm guns is Iowa, Montana, and Yamato/Musahi deck armor. That's it.  Pretty much a waste 4 points. And it is completely useless on the Hindenburg since German HE already has 1/4 pen. The only exception is the Henri - IFHE allow it to pend Khaba belt armor, Moskva plating, and GK deck.  Still a questionable use of a skill. 

This is like the 3rd thread over the last couple days where IFHE's use has been discussed.  Flamu breaks it down in the below video, and the thresholds and usefulness of IFHE are detailed at the link below. 

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_thresholds

 

Yeah, ironically the BB's get better use out of it on their mains.

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9 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

that 1/6th caliber is the odd rule that makes it that way. A Yamato HE round should vaporize a light cruiser or destroyer (and yes, they do arm). But in the game you hit a DD with a Yamato HE and it does not apply the full damage ..nor to a light cruiser. Yet it does to a BB or cruiser superstructure (which ironically have more armor than a DD).

Have it hit a Khabarovsk's 50mm plate and the damage is significantly lower than if it hit a minotaur for example. just weird stuff

 

Um, that's not how it works. Armor thickness only impacts if damage is dealt at all, not how much, at least for HE. (AP does have less damage if the armor is too thin, I.E. an overpenatration.)

Basically, when a HE shell hits a ship, the game checks the penatration against the armor of wherever it hit. If the penatration is less, no damage. (Fire can still happen.) If it is more, damage is dealt.

The only time more penatration means more damage with HE is when you have a huge shell hitting a spot that is both lightly armored and has the citadel right behind it. These HE citadel hits are mostly limited to RN BBs, though.

Damage saturation to the target may reduce the damage, but armor can only stop damage, not reduce it.

 

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12 hours ago, Lert said:

The skill isn't blocked, you can still pick it. The reason it's 'not efficient' with those ships is because IFHE on 203mm guns is questionable at best and a waste of four points at worst.

To add some on to this. 

IFHE doesn't give these ships enough penetration to warrant getting it, as they can already penetrate 32mm of armor which is the thickest common plate you will see.  If the plate is thicker than that they usually can't penetrate it even with IFHE.

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10 hours ago, crzyhawk said:

It's not blocked, you still have it.  It's not recommended because it's bad for Zao.

Also, it works on ships under T8 too.  IFHE should only be on ships with 155mm or lower main guns, OR BB captains that want it for secondaries.  On 203mm armed cruisers, it is a waste in most situations.

180mm , don't forget the donskoy.

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11 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

that 1/6th caliber is the odd rule that makes it that way. A Yamato HE round should vaporize a light cruiser or destroyer (and yes, they do arm). But in the game you hit a DD with a Yamato HE and it does not apply the full damage ..nor to a light cruiser. Yet it does to a BB or cruiser superstructure (which ironically have more armor than a DD).

Have it hit a Khabarovsk's 50mm plate and the damage is significantly lower than if it hit a minotaur for example. just weird stuff

 

If it arms then it does the same amount of damage regardless of what it hits. 33% it reaches the full amount only if it hits a citadel.

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