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So, Mogami

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I finally did it, I finally, FINALLY have managed to unlock and purchase every ship I had in the Beta. And there was much rejoicing! I've got Mogami, the last hold-out!

...

Now what?
I'm running the B hull with the 155mm guns right now and... It's okay? I've resigned myself to eventually switching to the 203mm guns if only for skill reasons, but beyond that I'm just not getting the hang of Japanese cruisers in the higher tiers. That weird mix of high speed and huge size just makes them awkward. I can't close in because I'm visible from space and my ship isn't maneuverable enough. I have trouble fighting in open water because bringing all five turrets to bear flashes that "SHOOT HERE FOR FREE CITADELS!" that is my belt armor. Kiting is something I should have learned a good while ago from Nurnberg, Konigsberg, and Roon but can't consistently get the hang of.

What about you guys? How do you Mogami? Maybe if I get some extra perspectives I'll see what I'm doing wrong.

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As you mentioned, kiting is the key. I also like running the 155's and will travel with a pack ALWAYS. I will usually unload my spread only after my group has fired and be ready to turn 90' at the first indication someone is targeting me. I will stay in a group, until it turns into (IMO) too many BB's. I know 1 well predicted BB spread will delete me, so Ill hang back and just start fires where I can, shadowing the group. I don't utilize islands but tend to open water steam. I prefer the ability to turn and go dark if necessary. Stealth and fire setting are how she is specced. Just realize, 155's lay a ton of firestarting hurt on BB's and it will get their attention, even while you are in a flotilla, so be ready to turn and go dark.

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I spec'ed mine for a quicker rudder response and guns but switched to the heavier 202's and have been very happy with the damage I can land with a full salvo on an unsuspecting CR and even BB.    Kiting with the quick rudder is very productive and I also prefer to sail and be moving all the time in it.    I've never mastered using islands because every time I do it where I can also fire at the enemy I end up quickly sunk in any ship I own including (especially including ) my Des Moines.    The Mogami has been a ship I've enjoyed playing, though lately have been doing horribly with all my ships and don't know why.

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    Mogami in my experience is a flexible ship. You can do cap support because with the 155's you can murder DD with a quickness. You can take a play from the USN playbook and shoot over islands with them as well. You can act solo and stalk folks once the fleets disposition is known or any enemy destroyers are tied up. Light people on fire, disappear. Watch for distracted people and rain down on them. Get in front of an enemy push and flood the area with torps without ever having to open up with main guns. It was my second or third fav in the line. Zao and Kuma are the two I maybe liked more.

Edited by Alabamastan

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Congratulations, I am running the 8" big guns because the ballistics of the 6" made it impossible for me to hit. Most people do run the 6's over the 8's because of the volume of shot they can put out for fires but the 8's have the advantage of being able to citadel broadside BB's.

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I love Mogami but I am struggling with her. I want to use the 20cm guns for the look and feel of a “real Mogami but the ship feels just weak somehow. 

Concealment is good but each BB shell hit seems to be a guaranteed citadel and the range is short. Pair that with being in TX matches all the time and it somehow sucks.

 

I have seen a post on the second rudder shift module which I am going to test now but I find her lacking. Maybe a scout plane would help? Or better range on the bigger guns? I don’t know

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Im starting to love it. I play her with 203 that usually start 2 fires with a salvo (i havent IFHE to try 155)  and the AP is good against broadside cruisers. I maximised steering gears and concealment with captain concelament too, so my detection is low than 10km, so you can stealth torp you can fire 16 torps when running out from a BB or you can ambush enemies. Yesterday ambush a Bismark and one Zao, no one saw me.

Its a very competent ship.

 

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On 9/30/2018 at 12:06 PM, BrushWolf said:

Congratulations, I am running the 8" big guns because the ballistics of the 6" made it impossible for me to hit. Most people do run the 6's over the 8's because of the volume of shot they can put out for fires but the 8's have the advantage of being able to citadel broadside BB's.

There isn't much of a difference

C23.thumb.PNG.1da3835a07823a107428eb2cdac93c0b.PNG

Mogami_0 is 155 Mogami_1 is 203s

Source: https://mustanghx.github.io/ship_ap_calculator/

Also, 155 Mogami Alpha / DPM is ridiculous and AP is pretty useless on both guns [203s are light shells that don't have much pen to begin with, for a 203, and loses it rapidly]

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3 hours ago, 901234 said:

There isn't much of a difference

C23.thumb.PNG.1da3835a07823a107428eb2cdac93c0b.PNG

Mogami_0 is 155 Mogami_1 is 203s

Source: https://mustanghx.github.io/ship_ap_calculator/

Also, 155 Mogami Alpha / DPM is ridiculous and AP is pretty useless on both guns [203s are light shells that don't have much pen to begin with, for a 203, and loses it rapidly]

All I know is I couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from inside with the 6" but when I switched to to 8" I started getting hits. I am not going to argue with success.

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4 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

All I know is I couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from inside with the 6" but when I switched to to 8" I started getting hits. I am not going to argue with success.

Even angle of fall doesn't differ too far, so it's probably due to something else. 

- If someone [still] wants to trade anecdotes I got 103k avg in it using the 6" guns

Edited by 901234

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29 minutes ago, 901234 said:

Even angle of fall doesn't differ too far, so it's probably due to something else. 

- If someone [still] wants to trade anecdotes I got 103+ avg in it using the 6" guns

I don't know what else it could be, all I did was switch out the guns. Maybe it is all in my head but it worked.

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I'm mainly planning on swapping out for the 203s for the grind so that I don't need to re-spec my captain for optimum damage. Once I unlock Ibuki my plan (currently anyway) is to keep Mogami around with a dedicated captain running IFHE on the 155s.

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On 10/3/2018 at 4:57 PM, BrushWolf said:

I don't know what else it could be, all I did was switch out the guns. Maybe it is all in my head but it worked.

The 8-incher retain energy better; they will fly more consistently.  The 6.1's bleed energy much faster, so they float at longer ranges as they loose velocity.

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Just got the Mogami recently and now have her fully upgraded but I'm using the 155 guns. First thing I found out is she can't take damage worth a crap and is easily citadeled when exposed. Have to play the island hideout game with her basically but I do like spamming torps with her. I have a 10pt CE captain with the concealment upgrade for around 9km detection. But I'm going to use one of my old ARP Myoko captains in reserve and change him to a IFHE 10 pt captain. My concealment will be less but if I can stay hidden well my damage should increase.  I will play both to see which way I like the captain spec'd more.

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Mogami is most effective with a 14-point captain. You want BOTH CE and IFHE for the 155mm guns.

Yes, it has thin armor. But, practically speaking, it makes no difference against BB AP - virtually all T8+ cruisers are citadeled from all angles when subject to BB AP.   So the Mogami's armor really isn't an issue. It's more that BB AP is overpoweringly strong once you hit T8 in a cruiser (of any flavor).  The only issue with the Mogami's armor is against some heavy cruiser AP, where it noticeably weaker than its peers' protection.

But that's the point: the Mogami's prime target is BBs. It is also highly effective against slow-moving CAs as well as DDs at mid-to-long ranges.  You DON'T want to get in a fight with a CA that moves well. Stealth up and disengage.

 

There's simply no comparison between the 155mm (with IFHE) and the 203mm performance. The former is massively superior. Very, very rarely will you be shooting at something where 203mm AP will be more effective than 155mm AP.  And in every other situation, the 155mm simply massively out-DPMs the 203mm.  50% more guns. 50% better ROF.  At the cost of a 25% per-shell HE damage reduction and a 15% worse turret rotation.

The 155mm also fights open water well, if you're not greedy, and of course excels at the island-hugging spammer mode. 

Here's how the 155mm Mogami beats the 203mm as an open-water stealth strike specialist:

Stalk a BB or cruiser with slower-rotating gun turrets. Wait until their pointed elsewhere.  Now, open fire. With the 203mm, your barely able to squeeze 2 salvos in and then go stealth again, before a BB can turn it's guns 180 degrees. You get just 1 salvo before a cruiser can start firing back.

With the 155mm?  You get a full additional salvo in.  That's huge, given a typical 155mm HE salvo (with say 50% of shells hitting, almost all being pens) does 7000+ damage and will usually cause a fire.

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On 11/10/2018 at 3:57 PM, dust340man said:

Just got the Mogami recently and now have her fully upgraded but I'm using the 155 guns. First thing I found out is she can't take damage worth a crap and is easily citadeled when exposed. Have to play the island hideout game with her basically but I do like spamming torps with her. I have a 10pt CE captain with the concealment upgrade for around 9km detection. But I'm going to use one of my old ARP Myoko captains in reserve and change him to a IFHE 10 pt captain. My concealment will be less but if I can stay hidden well my damage should increase.  I will play both to see which way I like the captain spec'd more.

Mogami still sucks and I doubt even when I get a 14pt capt on her she'll be any better. That won't stop the citadels. Worst armor even when angled of any ship I've player so far thru Tier 10. Can't shoot guns in open water, no spotter plane to use, have to hide behind islands. Basically she just sucks except for the occasional decent game. Total disappointment! Grade F and by far the worst Tier 8 cruiser especially when uptiered against T9 and T10 ships.

Edited by dust340man

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27 minutes ago, dust340man said:

Mogami still sucks and I doubt even when I get a 14pt capt on her she'll be any better. That won't stop the citadels. Worst armor even when angled of any ship I've player so far thru Tier 10. Can't shoot guns in open water, no spotter plane to use, have to hide behind islands. Basically she just sucks except for the occasional decent game. Total disappointment! Grade F and by far the worst Tier 8 cruiser especially when uptiered against T9 and T10 ships.

I'll have to disagree with you.  Yes, Mogami's protection is pretty bad, but she also maneuvers better than most any cruiser and you need to take advantage of that and simply don't get hit.  Hiding behind islands doesn't do you a lot of good when she can't shoot over them in the same manner as USN cruisers.  I have no problem playing her when bottom tier and some of my best stats are in here.  If you go with a full concealment build you can stealth torp, or you can use the rudder module instead of the concealment module and that makes her incredibly shifty and more able to avoid taking damage.  I use the 155mm guns and I absolutely shred DDs, she's a really good fire starter, and I don't really have a problem with same tier cruisers.  Facing upper tier ships you want to keep the range open and sling HE.  With a concealment build (which is what I use) you'll want to go dark, close the range and stealth torp, then open the range again and start slinging HE once more.  Like any light cruiser she's completely different once you get a 14 point captain and have IFHE and CE.

If you don't like the Mogami then you're probably going to hate the Ibuki, the only advantage she has is longer gun range.

 

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On 11/24/2018 at 8:41 AM, dust340man said:

Mogami still sucks and I doubt even when I get a 14pt capt on her she'll be any better. That won't stop the citadels. Worst armor even when angled of any ship I've player so far thru Tier 10. Can't shoot guns in open water, no spotter plane to use, have to hide behind islands. Basically she just sucks except for the occasional decent game. Total disappointment! Grade F and by far the worst Tier 8 cruiser especially when uptiered against T9 and T10 ships.

With a stealth build, the Mogami has a 9.3 detection radius. Use that to your advantage on getting the jump on ships. Know when to hold your fire, don't be the first spotted (especially in a bottom tier match). If you note a lot of ships focusing you, then stop firing, assuming that you have nothing within range to detect you. If you are detected and fired upon, then use the ship's maneuverability to dodge the shells. For instance, you're sailing full speed broadside to a BB that has just launched a salvo at you from say, 18 km away. That's plenty of time to dodge for the Mogami. Immediately slow down and turn so that the shells land short of the ship. If you do get caught with a broadside, then pray it isn't a citadel (it will be though).

The transition from the Myoko to the Mogami is drastic. In the Myoko you can angle and tank the damage, Mogami... not against the ships you'll be going against (Yamato ;-;). Make the best use of your camo and agility, avoid that instinct to constantly sling HE at ships, only do so when you're confident you can avoid incoming fire. I only have 50~ games in the ship though, so I'm still getting the hang of it myself. :)

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Imo Stealth Mog, should use the 155s as she has the ability to make use of their DPM more easily. But imo, the more fun build, a double rudder Mog should stick with the 203mm guns as her swinging back and forth will easily, and often, pull her guns off target and not allow you to use the DPM advantage. With this build you want alpha strike ability. You will have to learn to dodge like a mad man to make this setup work but it can be outright hysterical to dodge a salvo and return several of your own depending on your target. Good luck with the Mog and have fun in her, shes definitely a keeper for me. ^^

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The lack of armor on the Mogami is only relevant when taking cruiser fire.  Against any BB, all cruisers at T8 take regular citadels, as T8+ BBs come with guns which overmatch all cruiser armor except belts, so every single T8+ cruiser takes citadels (particularly plunging and stern ones) when being shot at by BBs.  That's just the way it is.

Mogami's lighter armor (which, frankly, is still much better than the CLs) does have problems with some of the better 8" cruiser AP.  Not so much from plunging (where it will take pens but not citadels), but horizontal fire will citadel the Mogami at 8-10km. So you want to stay away from the CAs, or at least far enough away that they can only use plunging fire against you.

That all said, the Mogami (particularly the 155+IFHE) absolutely does open-water firing just fine. It also does anti-DD work quite well, but you have to plan ahead. It doesn't have to be an island camper. 

For open-water use, the Mogami can kite quite well.  It doesn't have to swing too much to get at least 1 (and usually 2) front turrets in play, and even if you don't, there's 6 guns facing the stern all the time. Double rudder helps, but isn't necessary. I just run the Concealment + single rudder, and it kites very well.  The key here is that you DON'T want to be targetted by more than 1 ship at a time.  If you are, stealth up and run.  If you aren't, then burning down or raw DPM-to-death a BB or slower CA is actually quite easy.  Throw in the rear-facing torps, and the Mogami is a nightmare to deal with in an open-water pursuit.

In anti-DD mode, you plan ahead. You don't "hunt" them, so much as "ambush" them.  Make sure your turrets are pointed where the DD will be, and you want the engagement range to be in the 5-8km area.  That gives you plenty of maneuvering room, and the raw DPM of your guns means you wipe out any full-health DD in 3 salvos, max, and 1 salvo for most wounded DDs.

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