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Admiral_Bingo

RN CL Dido Premium Proposal

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Hello everyone,

This is my first post. :)

I would like to suggest this ship as a new premium and like to discuss what would it be like if it was actually added to the game.

HMS Dido

Image result for hms dido
 
The reason why I chose this ship is because I would like to entertain the thought of having a RN Atlanta.
Having similar armament, it would have a reload time around 5 seconds and just like the Atlanta, have unlimited charges of the DFAA consumable because of its AA build.
Some difference would be the shell type. Being a RN cruiser, it can only fire AP shells with the special RN ballistics while Atlanta could fire both types. While the Atlanta has HE and Radar, Dido trades these off for heal and smoke, making it different in terms of handling from Atlanta and Flint. However, because of its armament, it would have similar range like the Atlanta requiring the player to adapt to a similar game play of Atlanta.
 
So what specs, consumables, or other stuff should the ship have while keeping it relatively balanced?
 
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By the way, here's the historical armament (from Wikipedia):

Armament:

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Eventually getting a Dido class ship is likely.  Getting the Dido herself, as a class leader is not likely.

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Regarding the main armament, they are already in the game as secondary guns of the British BBs for T7 onwards. So you can take a look to see some of the stats. The reload is 6.67 seconds on the Lion/Conq seconderies. HE damage is 1900, HE shell velocity is 792m/s, and fire chance is 8%

However the 134mm guns fall under the 139mm threshold and would get the full effect of BFT, so the RoF people would see in practice is 6 seconds. Nobody with half a brain will not pick it provided they have a skilled enough captain. AA values on the 134mm guns are crap. It will not be a very effective AA cruiser.

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I'd love to see it. I just hope, since Dido was an AA ship, they don't curse her with Atlanta's loopy trajectories.

In before flame: Yes, I know, you can learn to work Atlanta's guns decently. I have one.

That doesn't mean Dido's guns should be a hazard to the International Space Station like Atlanta's.

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Dido was never intended to be an AA class.

From the outset the class was supposed to be a General Purpose Cruiser.

It's just that in the late 1930s the Admiralty recognised that part of a cruiser's 'general' role would now include AA.

The 5.25 ended up not being as good in AA as hoped, as they wanted the extra shell weight versus destroyers and cruisers.

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Given that they have put HMS Sirius into WoWB, I'd assume that will be the Dido we get as well.

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3 hours ago, Admiral_Bingo said:

Hello everyone,

This is my first post. :)

I would like to suggest this ship as a new premium and like to discuss what would it be like if it was actually added to the game.

HMS Dido

Image result for hms dido
 
The reason why I chose this ship is because I would like to entertain the thought of having a RN Atlanta.
Having similar armament, it would have a reload time around 5 seconds and just like the Atlanta, have unlimited charges of the DFAA consumable because of its AA build.
Some difference would be the shell type. Being a RN cruiser, it can only fire AP shells with the special RN ballistics while Atlanta could fire both types. While the Atlanta has HE and Radar, Dido trades these off for heal and smoke, making it different in terms of handling from Atlanta and Flint. However, because of its armament, it would have similar range like the Atlanta requiring the player to adapt to a similar game play of Atlanta.
 
So what specs, consumables, or other stuff should the ship have while keeping it relatively balanced?
 

Already been proposed at least 5-10 times.

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Not a good choice for a cruiser premium right now. The RN needs one that is compatible with the captain builds people actually use, and Dido isn't it. Guns on the wrong side of the BFT threshold,  small caliber almost demands HE, ect.

Better to have a Town  or Swiftsure class that can use the same captains without wasting a bunch of skill points.

 

Matt

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2 minutes ago, mobryan said:

Not a good choice for a cruiser premium right now. The RN needs one that is compatible with the captain builds people actually use, and Dido isn't it. Guns on the wrong side of the BFT threshold,  small caliber almost demands HE, ect.

Better to have a Town  or Swiftsure class that can use the same captains without wasting a bunch of skill points.

 

Matt

It would work as a dd trainer, just a large dd with a citadel like the Atlanta 

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1 hour ago, mobryan said:

Not a good choice for a cruiser premium right now. The RN needs one that is compatible with the captain builds people actually use, and Dido isn't it. Guns on the wrong side of the BFT threshold,  small caliber almost demands HE, ect.

Better to have a Town  or Swiftsure class that can use the same captains without wasting a bunch of skill points.

 

Matt

Unless they don't give Dido HE rounds.

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1 hour ago, mobryan said:

Not a good choice for a cruiser premium right now. The RN needs one that is compatible with the captain builds people actually use, and Dido isn't it. Guns on the wrong side of the BFT threshold,  small caliber almost demands HE, ect.

Better to have a Town  or Swiftsure class that can use the same captains without wasting a bunch of skill points.

 

Matt

Nah, I don't think it's an issue. Belfast did fine despite requiring a different captain build to the rest of the RN CL line. People who want to buy and invest their free time into Dido will mostly be people who will be fine training a specialised captain for her.

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why not Bellona sub-class of Dido-class cruiser, with improved AA capability over most the Dido-class (*) and a lower superstructure height from only having 4 turrets enabling more radar types to be fitted due to reduced top-load, it just depends on if you want 4 or 5 turrets, or 4.5" rather than 5.25" guns how much bias towards AA you want.

(*) excepting the two Dido-class with 4 x 4.5" twin turret with low superstructure (high AA bias).

 

balance wise, a lower superstructure and 4 x twin turrets you have the argument for better concealment and AA in return for reduced firepower vs. ships, with 5 x twin turrets and higher superstructure you get extra firepower vs. ships but it comes at the expense of worse concealment and AA.

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4 hours ago, mobryan said:

Not a good choice for a cruiser premium right now. The RN needs one that is compatible with the captain builds people actually use, and Dido isn't it. Guns on the wrong side of the BFT threshold,  small caliber almost demands HE, ect.

Better to have a Town  or Swiftsure class that can use the same captains without wasting a bunch of skill points.

 

Matt

Enough with the 6" British cruisers. Before we see another, I firmly believe WG should introduce the sorely-missed 8" classes.It would also permit the addition of another Commonwealth unit, the Ozzie Kents, HMAS Australia or Canberra.

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9 hours ago, Hookie_Bell said:

Enough with the 6" British cruisers. Before we see another, I firmly believe WG should introduce the sorely-missed 8" classes.It would also permit the addition of another Commonwealth unit, the Ozzie Kents, HMAS Australia or Canberra.

York or Exeter would work fine under tier 6. It would have a similar armament like Aoba. 6 guns + torps.

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21 hours ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

Regarding the main armament, they are already in the game as secondary guns of the British BBs for T7 onwards. So you can take a look to see some of the stats. The reload is 6.67 seconds on the Lion/Conq seconderies. HE damage is 1900, HE shell velocity is 792m/s, and fire chance is 8%

However the 134mm guns fall under the 139mm threshold and would get the full effect of BFT, so the RoF people would see in practice is 6 seconds. Nobody with half a brain will not pick it provided they have a skilled enough captain. AA values on the 134mm guns are crap. It will not be a very effective AA cruiser.

True, but around in 1944, the Brits got their hands on VT-fuzed shells for that caliber so that it became more effective as a weapon against aircraft. This will increase the DPS a bit despite the unimpressive reload.

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21 hours ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

Regarding the main armament, they are already in the game as secondary guns of the British BBs for T7 onwards. So you can take a look to see some of the stats. The reload is 6.67 seconds on the Lion/Conq seconderies. HE damage is 1900, HE shell velocity is 792m/s, and fire chance is 8%

However the 134mm guns fall under the 139mm threshold and would get the full effect of BFT, so the RoF people would see in practice is 6 seconds. Nobody with half a brain will not pick it provided they have a skilled enough captain. AA values on the 134mm guns are crap. It will not be a very effective AA cruiser.

Most of the gun's history stated that the gun did 7-8 rounds per minute.

The gun was designed for 12 rounds per minute by the RN.

HMS Vanguard claimed that it managed to do 18 rounds per minute with a better fire control system.

Garzke, p291: " The guns were fully automatic and remotely controlled, with a rate of fire of eighteen rounds per minute."

Therefore, it is possible to get over 7 to 8 rounds a minute on this gun.

And then there's the balancing factor that if this ship managed to get out as a premium, WG would probably make it Atlanta reload. (Atlanta's reload was around 4 seconds historically based on the gun but it was changed to 5 for balance reasons). Or there's the possibility of making it a lower tier than Atlanta for a slower reload.

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18 hours ago, Psycodiver said:

It would work as a dd trainer, just a large dd with a citadel like the Atlanta 

Basically. These ships were the RN's version of the Atlanta class.

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1 hour ago, Admiral_Bingo said:

True, but around in 1944, the Brits got their hands on VT-fuzed shells for that caliber so that it became more effective as a weapon against aircraft. This will increase the DPS a bit despite the unimpressive reload.

 

1 hour ago, Admiral_Bingo said:

 

Most of the gun's history stated that the gun did 7-8 rounds per minute.

The gun was designed for 12 rounds per minute by the RN.

HMS Vanguard claimed that it managed to do 18 rounds per minute with a better fire control system.

Garzke, p291: " The guns were fully automatic and remotely controlled, with a rate of fire of eighteen rounds per minute."

Therefore, it is possible to get over 7 to 8 rounds a minute on this gun.

And then there's the balancing factor that if this ship managed to get out as a premium, WG would probably make it Atlanta reload. (Atlanta's reload was around 4 seconds historically based on the gun but it was changed to 5 for balance reasons). Or there's the possibility of making it a lower tier than Atlanta for a slower reload.

Consider that the same models of primary and secondary guns generally share same or very similar stats, since WG doesn't really tweak them much. As an example when the IJN 100mm guns on the Akisuki line was buffed with 1/4 HE pen, Zao, Hakuryu, Kii, also got this as well for their 100mm secondaries. I assume that it is for ease of programming and wanting to keep same model gun characteristics similar.

The 134mm guns are already in the game with known stats, and can be used as a basis of debate. Dido's gun wont be wildly better unless WG buffs all 134 guns.

Personally I'm fine with the 134 mm having bad AA values, and with Dido not getting DF. Since Dido will have lower health than Atlanta, and no armour I'd happily trade AA capabilities for smoke and hydro. Imho it'd be best at tier 6.

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2 hours ago, Gen_Saris said:

Basically. These ships were the RN's version of the Atlanta class.

Well, given the Dido's were designed, lain down, launched and commissioned first, I've always thought of the Atlanta as the USN version of the Dido class.

20 hours ago, mobryan said:

Not a good choice for a cruiser premium right now. The RN needs one that is compatible with the captain builds people actually use, and Dido isn't it. Guns on the wrong side of the BFT threshold,  small caliber almost demands HE, ect.

Better to have a Town  or Swiftsure class that can use the same captains without wasting a bunch of skill points.

 

Matt

She wouldn't be terrible with a destroyer skipper as things are - IFHE and CE still look like ok choices on a high tier RN DD, and the rest is mostly gravy, I'm taking BFT myself.

22 hours ago, IronMike11B4O said:

Already been proposed at least 5-10 times.

Indeed, here's one I made earlier!

On 9/29/2018 at 5:31 PM, crzyhawk said:

Eventually getting a Dido class ship is likely.  Getting the Dido herself, as a class leader is not likely.

I hope you're right on the eventually, but with the latest RN premium offerings being the Vangarbage and the Dreadnothanks it may be a while away. Those two will probably be 'it' for a good while, the last 2 RN prems were DoY in December and then Cossack this month. I don't see a 3rd prem following closely after the glorious 5th and 6th battleship premiums... 

I could see the class leader being a prem, that would probably suggest that WG don't think an 'AA' cruiser branch is worth it. Atlanta's a premium after all.

There are a few others which are just 'odds and sods' which don't fit, or you can get unlucky and WG just forget in the case of Nelson, Dunkerque.

 

Edited by mofton

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@Admiral_Bingo

the 7-8 rounds per minute, is the sustained firing rate, because of the fatigue from shell handling after the first few min's, the initial rate is much closer to 12 rounds per minute.

 

historic accounts of HMS Euryalus which had 5 x twin 5.25" turrets, was firing ~200 shells in 2mins, which is ~10 rounds per minute per gun average.

Quote

We left Suez and headed for the Gulf, where at 1PM the ship's company closed to action-stations and gave a demonstration of the cruiser's fire power to the army officers. Fire was opened with the 10 5.25" guns in the form of a low angle barrage accompanied by fire from smaller guns. Set to burst at 2000 yds range, a terrific barrage was put up for two minutes and we fired some two hundred rounds of 5.25-inch HE...A wall of bursting shell was thrown up just above sea level and I could see that the army officers were impressed.

 &

Quote

"The Italians did not press home their attacks very hard and I thought they had a lot to put up with, as each cruiser could fire 100 rounds of 5.25" HE shell per minute" - Ronald Sired, gunnery petty officer HMS Euryalus.

 

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16 hours ago, Admiral_Bingo said:

 

Most of the gun's history stated that the gun did 7-8 rounds per minute.

The gun was designed for 12 rounds per minute by the RN.

HMS Vanguard claimed that it managed to do 18 rounds per minute with a better fire control system.

Garzke, p291: " The guns were fully automatic and remotely controlled, with a rate of fire of eighteen rounds per minute."

Therefore, it is possible to get over 7 to 8 rounds a minute on this gun.

And then there's the balancing factor that if this ship managed to get out as a premium, WG would probably make it Atlanta reload. (Atlanta's reload was around 4 seconds historically based on the gun but it was changed to 5 for balance reasons). Or there's the possibility of making it a lower tier than Atlanta for a slower reload.

Note, the figure in regards to Vanguard was per turret, not per gun. Combined the two guns could output 9 rpm.

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7 hours ago, Phoenix_jz said:

Note, the figure in regards to Vanguard was per turret, not per gun. Combined the two guns could output 9 rpm.

So that takes us closer to a five second reload. With the BFT, it goes down to 5.9 seconds. That would be swell at tier 6.

On 9/30/2018 at 1:05 AM, mobryan said:

Not a good choice for a cruiser premium right now. The RN needs one that is compatible with the captain builds people actually use, and Dido isn't it. Guns on the wrong side of the BFT threshold,  small caliber almost demands HE, ect.

Better to have a Town  or Swiftsure class that can use the same captains without wasting a bunch of skill points.

 

Matt

As a premium, WG could always throw in a ten point captain included with the ship to make it easier.

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13 minutes ago, Admiral_Bingo said:

As a premium, WG could always throw in a ten point captain included with the ship to make it easier.

WG have also been including xp personal missions with new ships lately.

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14 minutes ago, Admiral_Bingo said:

So that takes us closer to a five second reload. With the BFT, it goes down to 5.9 seconds. That would be swell at tier 6.

Ehh, that's pretty crummy. It gives you about 90 RPM, same as Nurnberg but without the shell ballistics, or the 1/4 HE pen. Dido would still need to waste 4 IFHE points and still not be able to hurt T8 battleship and some T8 cruiser hulls.

With Dido it's all about which consumables she gets, the gunnery platform is less than impressive whichever way you look at it.

Edited by mofton

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