Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
frontflip2cool

Possible Solution to the Worcester, Kitakaze, and Harugumo

107 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

907
[SIDE]
Members
2,493 posts
21 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

Obturating rings or driving bands..... Made of copper....  They, ah, are the gas seals for most naval and tank ammunition's....  The M38 barrels get so hot and expand after 6 rounds in rapid fire that you can't touch them and their diameters expand to the point the driving bands are only lightly inscribed, if at all................which means that there is little accuracy....  Yes, they can fire till the barrels glow but well before that, the ammunition jams in the breach and can, and has, historically "cooked off"....  AA fire doesn't require accuracy because the ammunition is HE time or Proximity....  Direct fire after 6 rounds is counter-intuitive unless you are at "brawling distances"....  Tank ammunition's "eat" rifled barrels and every shot is recorded and rifled barrels were sent back to the depot.  Smooth bores are different.  A lot of Battleship guns used "liners" that would creep out of the tube and had to be trimmed.....and, after a few inches of creep, taken out, relined at a depot and replaced.

Real?  Now where near close.  Reasonable?  I have said before that the squirt gun Cruisers and destroyers should be allow 6 rapid fire rounds per tube and then incur a "jam" possibility and dispersion would increased each and every round fired without a 2 minute cool down.  I'd also like to see only 1 reload for torps and that would be 4 minutes.....

WG could create a "extreme navy" mode where those of us that like SIMS could have a place to fight these ships with as close to actual weapons effects possible....  That would be a lot better than the silliness we see now...........a Shima that can shoot 60+ torpedoes a match?  What?  Where in the heck would you store them!!!!  How in the heck would you load a 29 foot (9 meter), 2.7 ton torpedo in moderate to rough seas even if they were stored on the decks !!!!  (which would be fatal to the ship !)  Sorry, reality bites........  Look, I've loaded hundreds of 105mm tank rounds (4" naval gun)  and I can 100% gar-un-tee four in rapid fire is a hoot to shoot.........literally, 4 in just under 18 seconds.....but, that's about it because of the empty cases and the gasses and having to get a few more lets you do this once......then, one at a time till you're just peetered out or out of ammo. (by the way, wearing hockey gloves keeps you from breaking your right hand bones of the turret roof !)

The M38's are one inch larger and not in a single case and weigh 70 pounds !!!  Ah, a Herculean task according to my father-in-law, a FTG on the MO from the last days of WW2 through Korea.......

I dont agree with you on some issues (purely difference of opinion) but this was a genuinely interesting and relavant piece.

Thank you for taking the time to share this with us!

Edited by thebigblue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4
[RNGRS]
Members
11 posts
5,699 battles

This is why you play as a team.  It's hard to set behind a rock and not die if you have a friend in a DD sneak up from behind.  

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
688 posts
5,656 battles
5 hours ago, Sovereigndawg said:

and teamwork, They don't shoot so much, when they are spotted. Ask your DDs or CVs for help. Then don't neglect to shoot them.

The problem with the wooster is that if:

Your CV plane spots it, it loses all its planes.

Your dd spots it, it gets radared and obliterated.

There is no "spot the wooster" without huge punishment for it.

  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
138
[DRHS]
Members
336 posts
14,276 battles
6 hours ago, frontflip2cool said:

So I know several of you players out there are tired of the horrible and annoying AF ships called the Worcester, Kitakaze, and Harugumo.

And here is a possible solution to those ships that would also make the game more interesting for high RoF ships of all types. How about introducing cool down timer for the guns of high RoF ships. So how it works is if they keep firing their guns repeatedly for an extended period a warning pops up saying to stop shooting because they are heating up too much and if a player ignores it and continues to fire that the gun(s) completed get knocked out due to the barrels basically melting down. Also you can't use your damage control party to make the cool down faster was also discussed among me and several others in the Offical Unoffical WG NA Discord.

Let me know your thoughts on this and if you think it should be implemented. And before you going to look at my WoWs profile I will say this right now flat out that I don't own the Worcester, Kitakaze, or Harugumo. So those that say I have no right to suggest such thing because I don't own the ships can just leave this post and go somewhere else.

Thanks and happy sailing

Ok Take this from a Veteran, the ROF on these ships would have to be around 100 a minute to heat up the barrels. Not the mere 20 round a minute they currently have. That being said, these ships are easy to deal with.

Do you see these IJN fire starters engaging a Z-46 or Z-52 ? Nope they RUN!

Do you See a Worcester Not hiding? Nope.

All 3 of these ships are glass cannons. Worcester's can't stand up to any heavy cruisers or BB's AP and can even be citadeled by  the German DD's.   If you have a problem with these ships just team up and hunt they down from the start. They are not that hard to kill. 

I do not own any of the 3 but I have no problem killing them either so, get good, kill those that overcompensate with ROF, and quit complaining.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
138
[DRHS]
Members
336 posts
14,276 battles
45 minutes ago, The_Painted_Target said:

The problem with the wooster is that if:

Your CV plane spots it, it loses all its planes.

Your dd spots it, it gets radared and obliterated.

There is no "spot the wooster" without huge punishment for it.

Play smart and Worcester's are not an issue. A Z-46 can own them with guns alone. The armor is almost as thin as a DD's and most DD's can Citadel them. The Problem is most DD's only know how to torp or HE spam. Play a Z-46 or 52 for a while, Learn what their AP can do. Then go hunt a Worcester. Believe me when I say a Z can be more of a problem for them than they are for it. Technically speaking a Z-46/52 can kill a Worcester in 3 salvo's or under 10 seconds. Not likely but possible. It usually takes 5-6 salvos to delete one, (under 20 seconds). People just need to learn how to deal with them.

The radar issue is a separate matter IMO. And 90% of the time it's not the ship mounting the radar that owns the DD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
754
[NWNG]
Members
2,821 posts
4,689 battles
12 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

Obturating rings or driving bands..... Made of copper....  They, ah, are the gas seals for most naval and tank ammunition's....  The M38 barrels get so hot and expand after 6 rounds in rapid fire that you can't touch them and their diameters expand to the point the driving bands are only lightly inscribed, if at all................which means that there is little accuracy....  Yes, they can fire till the barrels glow but well before that, the ammunition jams in the breach and can, and has, historically "cooked off"....  AA fire doesn't require accuracy because the ammunition is HE time or Proximity....  Direct fire after 6 rounds is counter-intuitive unless you are at "brawling distances"....  Tank ammunition's "eat" rifled barrels and every shot is recorded and rifled barrels were sent back to the depot.  Smooth bores are different.  A lot of Battleship guns used "liners" that would creep out of the tube and had to be trimmed.....and, after a few inches of creep, taken out, relined at a depot and replaced.

Real?  Now where near close.  Reasonable?  I have said before that the squirt gun Cruisers and destroyers should be allow 6 rapid fire rounds per tube and then incur a "jam" possibility and dispersion would increased each and every round fired without a 2 minute cool down.  I'd also like to see only 1 reload for torps and that would be 4 minutes.....

WG could create a "extreme navy" mode where those of us that like SIMS could have a place to fight these ships with as close to actual weapons effects possible....  That would be a lot better than the silliness we see now...........a Shima that can shoot 60+ torpedoes a match?  What?  Where in the heck would you store them!!!!  How in the heck would you load a 29 foot (9 meter), 2.7 ton torpedo in moderate to rough seas even if they were stored on the decks !!!!  (which would be fatal to the ship !)  Sorry, reality bites........  Look, I've loaded hundreds of 105mm tank rounds (4" naval gun)  and I can 100% gar-un-tee four in rapid fire is a hoot to shoot.........literally, 4 in just under 18 seconds.....but, that's about it because of the empty cases and the gasses and having to get a few more lets you do this once......then, one at a time till you're just peetered out or out of ammo. (by the way, wearing hockey gloves keeps you from breaking your right hand bones of the turret roof !)

The M38's are one inch larger and not in a single case and weigh 70 pounds !!!  Ah, a Herculean task according to my father-in-law, a FTG on the MO from the last days of WW2 through Korea.......

That's right, ignore the USS Johnston example I provided, because screw the evidence that doesn't fit your narrative. Over 200 rounds in 5-minutes. Yep, after 6 rounds, they most certainly were unable to continue firing because of problems with the guns... Sorry, but history tells a different story about these ships and their artillery.

Battle of Samar:

At 0710 one of the Gunnery officers on Johnston, opened fire on the leading ship of Japanese Center Force, which caused the Japanese to focus on the Johnston, which in turn caused Commander Evans, to order an attack run, despite not receiving orders to do so. At 0715 another of Johnston's guns opens fire, scoring hits on Kumano's superstructure igniting fires. For Five minutes after that, from 0715-0720, the Johnston fires over 200 rounds, during evasive maneuvers (following the shell splashes), which made her a difficult target to shoot. That's over 40 rounds a minute, and these guns are rated at 15 rounds a minute... which means two guns fired their full 15 rounds a minute (4 second reload), while other guns filled in the remaining 5+ rounds, for 5 minutes straight... since they were doing evasive maneuvers, this makes sense, that very few guns would be able to even get a firing angle on the Kumano... At 0720, torpedoes were launched, and for 4 minutes, they were in the water before hitting the Kumano. Johnston launched all 10 torpedoes at the Kumano, then retired into the heavy smoke screen. 1 minute later, comes out of the smokescreen, to see Kumano on fire, and its bow clean off, Kumano withdraw.

But again, please tell me how that 4 second reload, and firing over 200 rounds in 5 minutes, caused problems with those guns of hers.

Johnston takes shells from a battleship. Someone reports it as 14" shells from Kongo, but is deemed not possible and from further analysis of angle of shell hits, and Japanese logs, it is believed that the Johnston survived a salvo from Yamato's 46cm guns, and was struck shortly after, by Yamato's 6 inch guns. Japanese Logs reports that Battleship Yamato sunk a cruiser at this time, they had a habit of overestimating the size of their opponents. Johnston takes shelter inside a squall for repairs. Her radar has been knocked out. Fire Control Radar was knocked out, but was able to be brought back online. Only a few minutes were required to bring the main batteries back to operational. Then from the Squall, Johnston fires several dozen rounds into the lead destroyer, which started at 0735. Fire shifted to Cruisers to the East shortly after, with several more dozen rounds into them... Commander Evans was in retreat, but seeing the damaged Hoel, decided to return to battle, to continue to provide additional gun support. Scoring several hits on the Cruiser Tone, despite the SC Radar being out of commission. But please, tell me more about how 6 shots in rapid succession causes problems with the guns...

At 0820, Johnston comes out of the Squall, and comes face to face with Haruna, fired 40 rounds, with 15 hits on superstructure recorded. At 0830 Johnston responded to a call for an attack on a cruiser, and fired upon the heavier armed opponent, likely Haguro, for 10 minutes. Recorded many hits. at 0840, Johnston reverses course, to intercept a group of destroyers, attempting to cross the T, with the escort carriers Johnston is defending. Johnston fires, and takes return fire from the destroyers, destroyers disengage. Dozens of hits were recorded against the lead destroyer... but please, continue about how rapid fire causes problems with those guns...

5 hits were scored against the second destroyer in the formation, before the entire formation veered away to avoid Johnston. The number one gun mount was eventually taken out completely, as the battle continues. 0920, abandoned the forward bridge and was controlling the ship from the Aft Bridge. At 0940 Johnston was dead in the water. Ships concentrated fire on the now Vulnerable Johnston, instead of the fleeing carrier (Johnston was that much of a threat). She was hit so many times, that one of the survivors said that they could no longer keep up with hole patching, to keep her afloat. At 0945 Abandon Ship order was finally given, the saddest order any commander can give. 25 minutes later, she finally sunk, with 186 of her crew. Commander Evans received the Medal of Honor for his command, but it was the Japanese that first recognized Johnston's incredible actions, as the surviving crew says that one destroyer cruised forward, fired 1 shot to make sure she sinks, and watched as the Japanese salute the sinking wreck.

But please, tell me how 6 shots in rapid succession can cause problems, when this destroyer, showed that the ship can fight for 2+ hours without issue.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,150
[H_]
Members
2,273 posts
2 hours ago, thebigblue said:

I dont agree with you on some issues (purely difference of opinion) but this was a genuinely interesting and relavant piece.

Thank you for taking the time to share this with us!

Sure !  pays to have in-laws, a brother (another FTG) that actually worked on and fired the 5" guns and worked in the FDC's on the ships we play !  Have you even been inside a M38 turret on a BB?  I've actually handled the rounds and been inside the turrets when they were refurbishing them in the 80's....  My FIL and a next door neighbor were hired as contractors by the Navy to teach new sailors blue water naval gunnery....  I'm just a tanker; so, shooting the 105's during the Reagan years was a non-stop experience.    What I've reported are what the actual gunners and crews from the  Missouri told me about the guns, weapons systems and especially, the fire control computers.....My interest is in that the M48A5 and M60 series tanks used micro sized ballistic computers designed from Naval systems (complete with the brass cams inside of the unit !!!)    It was said that the most 5" rounds fired was 18 continuous and then they had to clear the breach several times because the temperatures screwed up the tension springs that close the vertical breach.......can you imagine cleaning those guns after a day of fire support !!!!  Holy crap.  Tanks are tough enough, imagine the effort based on where those turrets are located !!

What is you "opinions?"  I'm curious..... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
214
[P2W]
Members
330 posts
9,550 battles
6 hours ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

Yes, because having ships that aren't sunk but still not able to fight is a great idea.

I believe we have that covered with CVs that have no more planes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,150
[H_]
Members
2,273 posts
18 minutes ago, Counter_Gambit said:

That's right, ignore the USS Johnston example I provided, because screw the evidence that doesn't fit your narrative. Over 200 rounds in 5-minutes. Yep, after 6 rounds, they most certainly were unable to continue firing because of problems with the guns... Sorry, but history tells a different story about these ships and their artillery.

Battle of Samar:

At 0710 one of the Gunnery officers on Johnston, opened fire on the leading ship of Japanese Center Force, which caused the Japanese to focus on the Johnston, which in turn caused Commander Evans, to order an attack run, despite not receiving orders to do so. At 0715 another of Johnston's guns opens fire, scoring hits on Kumano's superstructure igniting fires. For Five minutes after that, from 0715-0720, the Johnston fires over 200 rounds, during evasive maneuvers (following the shell splashes), which made her a difficult target to shoot. That's over 40 rounds a minute, and these guns are rated at 15 rounds a minute... which means two guns fired their full 15 rounds a minute (4 second reload), while other guns filled in the remaining 5+ rounds, for 5 minutes straight... since they were doing evasive maneuvers, this makes sense, that very few guns would be able to even get a firing angle on the Kumano... At 0720, torpedoes were launched, and for 4 minutes, they were in the water before hitting the Kumano. Johnston launched all 10 torpedoes at the Kumano, then retired into the heavy smoke screen. 1 minute later, comes out of the smokescreen, to see Kumano on fire, and its bow clean off, Kumano withdraw.

But again, please tell me how that 4 second reload, and firing over 200 rounds in 5 minutes, caused problems with those guns of hers.

Johnston takes shells from a battleship. Someone reports it as 14" shells from Kongo, but is deemed not possible and from further analysis of angle of shell hits, and Japanese logs, it is believed that the Johnston survived a salvo from Yamato's 46cm guns, and was struck shortly after, by Yamato's 6 inch guns. Japanese Logs reports that Battleship Yamato sunk a cruiser at this time, they had a habit of overestimating the size of their opponents. Johnston takes shelter inside a squall for repairs. Her radar has been knocked out. Fire Control Radar was knocked out, but was able to be brought back online. Only a few minutes were required to bring the main batteries back to operational. Then from the Squall, Johnston fires several dozen rounds into the lead destroyer, which started at 0735. Fire shifted to Cruisers to the East shortly after, with several more dozen rounds into them... Commander Evans was in retreat, but seeing the damaged Hoel, decided to return to battle, to continue to provide additional gun support. Scoring several hits on the Cruiser Tone, despite the SC Radar being out of commission. But please, tell me more about how 6 shots in rapid succession causes problems with the guns...

At 0820, Johnston comes out of the Squall, and comes face to face with Haruna, fired 40 rounds, with 15 hits on superstructure recorded. At 0830 Johnston responded to a call for an attack on a cruiser, and fired upon the heavier armed opponent, likely Haguro, for 10 minutes. Recorded many hits. at 0840, Johnston reverses course, to intercept a group of destroyers, attempting to cross the T, with the escort carriers Johnston is defending. Johnston fires, and takes return fire from the destroyers, destroyers disengage. Dozens of hits were recorded against the lead destroyer... but please, continue about how rapid fire causes problems with those guns...

5 hits were scored against the second destroyer in the formation, before the entire formation veered away to avoid Johnston. The number one gun mount was eventually taken out completely, as the battle continues. 0920, abandoned the forward bridge and was controlling the ship from the Aft Bridge. At 0940 Johnston was dead in the water. Ships concentrated fire on the now Vulnerable Johnston, instead of the fleeing carrier (Johnston was that much of a threat). She was hit so many times, that one of the survivors said that they could no longer keep up with hole patching, to keep her afloat. At 0945 Abandon Ship order was finally given, the saddest order any commander can give. 25 minutes later, she finally sunk, with 186 of her crew. Commander Evans received the Medal of Honor for his command, but it was the Japanese that first recognized Johnston's incredible actions, as the surviving crew says that one destroyer cruised forward, fired 1 shot to make sure she sinks, and watched as the Japanese salute the sinking wreck.

But please, tell me how 6 shots in rapid succession can cause problems, when this destroyer, showed that the ship can fight for 2+ hours without issue.

Ok, the Johnson is a 5 gun Fletcher.   200 rounds from which guns?  So, each gun fired 40 rounds.......in normal progression, under normal FDC control....So?    Rapid fire, that 15 to 20 rounds per minute on a great day and assuming "nothing goes wrong"...  So, what was shot?  AP or HE?  I've seen after action reports where some guns simply didn't fire and others that never jammed....  What I do know, is what actual family has said about these systems....  I didn't use the computer to look up the data.  I spent a decade talking to sailors........because it's an interest to me.

Some 5" AA guns were fired till the grease melted out of the breaches and the tubes glowed.....  Others, fired when the breach closed due to temperatures so high they cooked off....  This isn't one case is the finite answer here !  I've had tubes simply explode with war shots and bore evaluators have sucking cylinder damage....  I've had tension springs in the breach shatter.....  The hydraulics rupture and the turret brakes fail......  We had one tube not stop in counter-battery and end up in the back of the turret (we had to cut that one out.)  Now, what was that meme?  Rough and smooth in the grove; and, too rough, not enough???  My FIL has told stories of the 5 inch'ers with failures to feed from below and wrong ammo selection at the worst of times......

This is a game.  Any everything works perfectly all of the time.  All I'd like to see is some game-play humility !   Same with torpedoes (miss fires, duds, proximity detonations, wandering tracks, etc...) 

Thanks for the reply !!!

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18
[SKULS]
Members
152 posts
2,860 battles

when I see those three ships I have to play the long range game behind cover you can't shoot what you cannot see they hide in the smoke and rip you a new one firing guns every 3 seconds would melt the barrels in the real world today I had over 30 torpedo's fired at me dodged them all but one I was down to almost zero HP you can see what that does, Something should be done about certain ships that are indeed OP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
907
[SIDE]
Members
2,493 posts
1 hour ago, Asym_KS said:

Sure !  pays to have in-laws, a brother (another FTG) that actually worked on and fired the 5" guns and worked in the FDC's on the ships we play !  Have you even been inside a M38 turret on a BB?  I've actually handled the rounds and been inside the turrets when they were refurbishing them in the 80's....  My FIL and a next door neighbor were hired as contractors by the Navy to teach new sailors blue water naval gunnery....  I'm just a tanker; so, shooting the 105's during the Reagan years was a non-stop experience.    What I've reported are what the actual gunners and crews from the  Missouri told me about the guns, weapons systems and especially, the fire control computers.....My interest is in that the M48A5 and M60 series tanks used micro sized ballistic computers designed from Naval systems (complete with the brass cams inside of the unit !!!)    It was said that the most 5" rounds fired was 18 continuous and then they had to clear the breach several times because the temperatures screwed up the tension springs that close the vertical breach.......can you imagine cleaning those guns after a day of fire support !!!!  Holy crap.  Tanks are tough enough, imagine the effort based on where those turrets are located !!

What is you "opinions?"  I'm curious..... 

I really don’t know of a specific example off the top of my head. Prob dif sides of same coin on radar or he or realism. Nothing big. Nothing personal. Anyway,  thanks for the informative posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
688 posts
5,656 battles
1 hour ago, BarronRichthofen said:

Play smart and Worcester's are not an issue. A Z-46 can own them with guns alone. The armor is almost as thin as a DD's and most DD's can Citadel them. The Problem is most DD's only know how to torp or HE spam. Play a Z-46 or 52 for a while, Learn what their AP can do. Then go hunt a Worcester. Believe me when I say a Z can be more of a problem for them than they are for it. Technically speaking a Z-46/52 can kill a Worcester in 3 salvo's or under 10 seconds. Not likely but possible. It usually takes 5-6 salvos to delete one, (under 20 seconds). People just need to learn how to deal with them.

The radar issue is a separate matter IMO. And 90% of the time it's not the ship mounting the radar that owns the DD.

image.thumb.png.05a868c5e0553396018910f58358aca9.png
 

I guess I just really need to learn how to play Z52 right? I'm sure the Worcester wont angle against me or anything. Saying "one or two dds can technically kill it in perfect situations" is just proving how completely blind you are to how oppressive the Worcester currently is to the game right now. You aren't going to "kill a Worcester in 3 salvos". That "under 20 seconds" to "delete" a Worcester is going to have him angle against your pitiful shells and utterly and completely murder you.

Please don't spout misleading nonsense in the event that someone who doesn't know better actually takes you seriously.

Or, maybe I'm just not that good of a destroyer player.
image.thumb.png.98b18d2e60e30d2c67a0f569d198d726.png

I implore you to challenge me on this one.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,904
[INTEL]
Members
10,474 posts
29,285 battles
8 hours ago, Slimeball91 said:

I understand the frustration.  The thing is these ships didn't accidentally slip through testing as super HE spammer.  It was by design.  WG has been forced to address the BB overpopulation, and this is one of the ways they are doing it.  Burn down the BBs and get them back in the queue as fast as possible, ideally in another ships type with less HP for shorter matches.

The BB overpopulation is a myth. WG wants everyone in BB's as much as possible. If WG wanted  players to play other ships they would make adjustments to either the fire power or defense of high tier ships. Moreover certain ships such as the Asashio are sold with the implicit assumption that there will be BB's to shoot at. Finally simply limiting BBs in the MM would do it.

Nope. Its WG policy to put as many players as possible in battleships.

There is nothing fun in exchanging fire with high ROF ships. They are irritating and frustrating to "play" against. That is the main point of the OPs point. How can the fun factor be restored to the high tiers? That is the question he wants you to consider.

Those high ROF ships are one of several reasons I wont play T8-10 anymore....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
0
[DENY]
Members
2 posts
2,359 battles
9 hours ago, frontflip2cool said:

So I know several of you players out there are tired of the horrible and annoying AF ships called the Worcester, Kitakaze, and Harugumo.

And here is a possible solution to those ships that would also make the game more interesting for high RoF ships of all types. How about introducing cool down timer for the guns of high RoF ships. So how it works is if they keep firing their guns repeatedly for an extended period a warning pops up saying to stop shooting because they are heating up too much and if a player ignores it and continues to fire that the gun(s) completed get knocked out due to the barrels basically melting down. Also you can't use your damage control party to make the cool down faster was also discussed among me and several others in the Offical Unoffical WG NA Discord.

Let me know your thoughts on this and if you think it should be implemented. And before you going to look at my WoWs profile I will say this right now flat out that I don't own the Worcester, Kitakaze, or Harugumo. So those that say I have no right to suggest such thing because I don't own the ships can just leave this post and go somewhere else.

Thanks and happy sailing

I really don't think this should be a thing...hell gun jams would be better. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
640
[13TH]
Members
4,872 posts
8,338 battles
9 hours ago, frontflip2cool said:

So I know several of you players out there are tired of the horrible and annoying AF ships called the Worcester, Kitakaze, and Harugumo.

And here is a possible solution to those ships that would also make the game more interesting for high RoF ships of all types. How about introducing cool down timer for the guns of high RoF ships. So how it works is if they keep firing their guns repeatedly for an extended period a warning pops up saying to stop shooting because they are heating up too much and if a player ignores it and continues to fire that the gun(s) completed get knocked out due to the barrels basically melting down. Also you can't use your damage control party to make the cool down faster was also discussed among me and several others in the Offical Unoffical WG NA Discord.

Let me know your thoughts on this and if you think it should be implemented. And before you going to look at my WoWs profile I will say this right now flat out that I don't own the Worcester, Kitakaze, or Harugumo. So those that say I have no right to suggest such thing because I don't own the ships can just leave this post and go somewhere else.

Thanks and happy sailing

The thing is there’s a price one pays for 4.5 second reloads in shell damage and ship armor ... it’s all about balance and it’s not that simple to change it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
754
[NWNG]
Members
2,821 posts
4,689 battles
1 hour ago, Asym_KS said:

Ok, the Johnson is a 5 gun Fletcher.   200 rounds from which guns?  So, each gun fired 40 rounds.......in normal progression, under normal FDC control....So?    Rapid fire, that 15 to 20 rounds per minute on a great day and assuming "nothing goes wrong"...  So, what was shot?  AP or HE?  I've seen after action reports where some guns simply didn't fire and others that never jammed....  What I do know, is what actual family has said about these systems....  I didn't use the computer to look up the data.  I spent a decade talking to sailors........because it's an interest to me.

Some 5" AA guns were fired till the grease melted out of the breaches and the tubes glowed.....  Others, fired when the breach closed due to temperatures so high they cooked off....  This isn't one case is the finite answer here !  I've had tubes simply explode with war shots and bore evaluators have sucking cylinder damage....  I've had tension springs in the breach shatter.....  The hydraulics rupture and the turret brakes fail......  We had one tube not stop in counter-battery and end up in the back of the turret (we had to cut that one out.)  Now, what was that meme?  Rough and smooth in the grove; and, too rough, not enough???  My FIL has told stories of the 5 inch'ers with failures to feed from below and wrong ammo selection at the worst of times......

This is a game.  Any everything works perfectly all of the time.  All I'd like to see is some game-play humility !   Same with torpedoes (miss fires, duds, proximity detonations, wandering tracks, etc...) 

Thanks for the reply !!!

Considering the Johnston <---don't forget that T---> was heading directly towards the ship they were planning to torpedo, thus the bow was facing the target ship... so... yeah... two guns are more likely to have done majority of the work. 75 rounds each from them (5 minutes of firing) for 150 rounds, since during a 5 minute sprint into torpedo range, over 200 rounds were fired, that means the other 3 guns that didn't have a constant firing angle (during evasive maneuvers), has to make up the remaining 50+ rounds during that 5 minute sprint. Or are you going to tell me that they would have only fired each gun for a maximum of 2 minutes 40 seconds each, AT MINIMUM, during that 5 minute sprint?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
550
[WOLF5]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters, Beta Testers
2,596 posts
33,734 battles

I didn't know there was a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,150
[H_]
Members
2,273 posts
16 hours ago, Counter_Gambit said:

Considering the Johnston <---don't forget that T---> was heading directly towards the ship they were planning to torpedo, thus the bow was facing the target ship... so... yeah... two guns are more likely to have done majority of the work. 75 rounds each from them (5 minutes of firing) for 150 rounds, since during a 5 minute sprint into torpedo range, over 200 rounds were fired, that means the other 3 guns that didn't have a constant firing angle (during evasive maneuvers), has to make up the remaining 50+ rounds during that 5 minute sprint. Or are you going to tell me that they would have only fired each gun for a maximum of 2 minutes 40 seconds each, AT MINIMUM, during that 5 minute sprint?

The reality is that once it's weapons free, all's fair........  Every gun that had LOS, even less than perfect LOS would be shooting till the guns melted or the Skipper called cease fire.   That is a consistent story from WW2 in the oceans and on land.... 

This is a game and it is often fun to play.  All I'd like to see is some "game-play humility"......  "Stuff" to limit some of the gimmicks that 'go too far'....  Pick one: radar, HE Spam, endless torpedoes, stealth smoke, etc....or, all of them.  I've played SIMS as to be honest, they sure can be boring.   Arcade FPS's are exciting; but, game companies have to infuse "gimmicks" to increase excitement and keep hyper-active players satisfied.   Something between the two sure would be nice.

Is this possible?  I doubt it but, it's on my wish list cause I like this game's concepts.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,617 posts
7,552 battles
On 9/30/2018 at 5:13 AM, Komrade_Rylo said:

Or an even better and easier solution. Remove IFHE

then watch every DD and CL get 1/4 HE pen as standard.

On 9/30/2018 at 5:52 AM, thebigblue said:

Khab.

There. Solved. No patch needed.

hmmmmmm.... then Worcester goes dark, sneaks to within 9.5km and closing of Khab and blast her to pieces with rapid fire 152mms who at that range don't care about Khab's speed or armour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
907
[SIDE]
Members
2,493 posts
1 hour ago, 212thAttackBattalion said:

then watch every DD and CL get 1/4 HE pen as standard.

hmmmmmm.... then Worcester goes dark, sneaks to within 9.5km and closing of Khab and blast her to pieces with rapid fire 152mms who at that range don't care about Khab's speed or armour.

If Wooster is dark then Wooster isn’t a problem. Advantage khab.

Khab sees Wooster 2km sooner than Wooster sees khab and can choose to break off or just keep wooster spotted. Advantage khab.

wooster is not dark shooting at another target and khab shoots from 10km until wooster gets annoyed and khab smokes or wasd. Advantage khab.

Wooster is dark but pops radar second khab spots it. Khab baits Radar and gets out of radar range at 45kmh. Draw.

khab comes around corner where wooster is hiding. Wooster pops radar. Wooster ambush is flawless and khab deleted in 10 seconds. Wooster dodges panic shot torpedos with hydro. Advantage absolute to wooster. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,592
[WOLF2]
Beta Testers
6,396 posts
11,004 battles
On 9/29/2018 at 2:13 PM, Komrade_Rylo said:

Or an even better and easier solution. Remove IFHE

Yup. That's what the solution ultimately will be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
960
[WOLFB]
Members
2,792 posts
11,441 battles

Harugumo and Kitakaze are fine. Kitakaze is a solid T9 and Harugumo is overrated. The true gem for me is Kitakaze not Harugumo.

 

Worcester problem is just her concealment allowing her to stealth radar and maybe her DPM with IFHE but other than that, the ship is fine.

 

Actually why are you only suggesting this change for these ship and not for every other ship ? Why not for BB secondaries while we're at it ?  

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×