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AMajor

Loving the Shiratsuyu

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Was trying to be a good boy and grind up from the Hatsuharu, but I just couldn't stand playing that ship.  Her guns were SO slow and anemic and her torps were slow and easily dodged that I knew that I couldn't grind her and keep my sanity.  I used a bunch of my free XP and got into the Shira (and immediately sold the Hatsu).  What a difference!  She is a lower-tiered version of my Kagero without having to face so many Radar ships!  Plus, her guns are useful and do damage.  Having a blast so far.

The Shira has the Type 7 Mod 2 fire control,  type 90 Mod 1 torps, and the B hull.  The upgrades are iChase recommended and I run I run the torpedo reload booster II consumable instead of smoke.  My 12 pt captain's build is defensive in nature (PM, LS, AR, SI, CE).

When you "cheat" and skip a ship, there is a danger that you won't properly learn the lessons that you were supposed to learn in the ship at the lower tier.  What lessons do you think that I should concentrate on to make sure that there are no gaps in my experience with this line?

Just so you know, my USN dd boats include the following: (Mahan, Sims, Benson, Kidd, Farragut, Gearing).  MY IJN dd alternate line are the Fabuki and the Kagero (never liked the Akatsuki so I sold her).  I have a few "specialty" dds (the LoYang and the Haida) that come out to play when I need their special talents.  As far as Russian and German dds, just lower tier stuff so far.

This Shira is a Kagero in disguise.

Any suggestions, comments, etc. greatly appreciated.  Battle replays furnished upon request.

Edited by AMajor

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Shira is a good ship.  Not as great as pre nerf though.  I do like the TRB in lieu of smoke.  Only problem is T7 is heavy with CVs and w/o smoke a good one will perma spot ya.

Edited by Warped_1

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I look for the ships especially BBs where they usually go on the maps and try to ambush them with 16 torps with the TRP reload. I avoid getting spotted as much as possible but will use my guns in the right scenario like with an inferior/lower tier DD. For the most fun I use TRP on my Shiratsuyu and Kagero. It's like playing a cat and mouse game with the enemy but the payoffs can be huge at times. 

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On 9/28/2018 at 9:08 PM, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Shira is a good boat.  Strong enough she was only one of few T7s that saw use in Supremacy League.

Destroyer_KuroshioKai, really appreciate your videos, especially as you teach us players about situational awareness and map presence.  I'd love to division with you if you have the time and have headphones and mic so we could talk real time in the game.  USN dds to T10, IJN to T8 Kagero, Pan Asian to T8 LoYang

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6 hours ago, AMajor said:

 

Destroyer_KuroshioKai, really appreciate your videos, especially as you teach us players about situational awareness and map presence.  I'd love to division with you if you have the time and have headphones and mic so we could talk real time in the game.  USN dds to T10, IJN to T8 Kagero, Pan Asian to T8 LoYang

Join the CUTE Discord, thats the place I div up with guys.  It's open to the public and probably one of the largest clan Discords for WoWs.  I'm pretty easy to track down there, just PM me. 

http:// https://discord.gg/37xdtuG

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Haven't played her much recently (working on past the Akizuki and other lines) and wondered how she was doing in the changing CV meta. TRB over smoke is the mantra but with more aircraft about lately and a DD that absolutely requires remaining unseen, is it getting harder to be successful in this ship?

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On 10/2/2018 at 10:54 AM, Sabot_100 said:

Haven't played her much recently (working on past the Akizuki and other lines) and wondered how she was doing in the changing CV meta. TRB over smoke is the mantra but with more aircraft about lately and a DD that absolutely requires remaining unseen, is it getting harder to be successful in this ship?

No, I'm finder her easier to play than my Kagero.  TRB in a T7 ship seems to take people by surprise.  I know that the video is older, but check out Flamu's Shiru vid at 

 

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IMHO, Shiratsuyu is the optimal balance of the best torpedoes with the least radar. Simple as that. The guns work ok as a bonus.

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ships is a steamy pile and does 0 to get you ready for tiers 8-10. cant wait to get past it. its too slow to be good.

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Just free Exp past it.  It really puts in a good showing for worst destroyer in the game.  No guns, only 8 torps that are already useless enough as IJN torps (every battleship can dodge if they're not a glue sniffer), too slow to escape radar or escape when using the torpedo reloader.  It's kind of a pointless ship with a useless design unless you get an enemy of glue sniffers who give you the occasional good game.

Edited by WidochMeirker
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On 11/6/2018 at 2:55 PM, WidochMeirker said:

Just free Exp past it.  It really puts in a good showing for worst destroyer in the game.  No guns, only 8 torps that are already useless enough as IJN torps (every battleship can dodge if they're not a glue sniffer), too slow to escape radar or escape when using the torpedo reloader.  It's kind of a pointless ship with a useless design unless you get an enemy of glue sniffers who give you the occasional good game.

  • no guns
    This is a telltale sign of scrub IJN DD players. Just because the guns aren't USN guns doesn't mean you can't use it. Used properly, IJN DDs can even gunfight other gunboat DDs and win.
  • useless IJN torps (every battleship can dodge if they're not a glue sniffer)
    People who complain about this are usually people who torp on the white line, and constantly torp every single cooldown without considering optimal torp positions, or staggering launches
  • too slow to escape radar or escape when using the torpedo reloader
    Having slow speed at T7 teaches you proper map awareness and positioning which will be useful at higher tiers. If you constantly keep dying because of reckless "charge into enemies head-on, get detected, and die while turning away", it's not the ship's fault, it's the player's.

Shiratsuyu may not be the top DD at T7, but the lessons it teaches players are very useful for both the main and alternative IJN DD branches. Refusing to learn the ship's intricacies because it doesn't fit to your expectations only hinders your learning.

 

 

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18 hours ago, RyuuohD_NA said:
  • no guns
    This is a telltale sign of scrub IJN DD players. Just because the guns aren't USN guns doesn't mean you can't use it. Used properly, IJN DDs can even gunfight other gunboat DDs and win.
  • useless IJN torps (every battleship can dodge if they're not a glue sniffer)
    People who complain about this are usually people who torp on the white line, and constantly torp every single cooldown without considering optimal torp positions, or staggering launches
  • too slow to escape radar or escape when using the torpedo reloader
    Having slow speed at T7 teaches you proper map awareness and positioning which will be useful at higher tiers. If you constantly keep dying because of reckless "charge into enemies head-on, get detected, and die while turning away", it's not the ship's fault, it's the player's.

Shiratsuyu may not be the top DD at T7, but the lessons it teaches players are very useful for both the main and alternative IJN DD branches. Refusing to learn the ship's intricacies because it doesn't fit to your expectations only hinders your learning.

 

 

Guns:
It's the telltale sign of someone who can read statistics and has been playing the game for a while.  In a fair 1v1 gunfight against any other similar tier, the opposing destroyer has more gun power than you do and if played correctly will never lose to you.  The guns require you to hope for enemy incompetence.   If you believe otherwise, you're simply displaying ignorance. Outside of other IJN DDs, every single destroyer from T6 and up easily outguns you.

Torps:
People who complain about this are people who have the ability to look at other destroyers with similar range torpedoes.  Once again, you're relying on the enemy being incompetent.  The detection is so bad on the torps and ships have so much time to react that your hits rely on an incompetent player, luck or the occasional perfect situation.  The fact that your guns on this ship are so bad and the ship speed is so bad means you can't outrun any radar or many other DDs in the game.  This requires you to generally rely on the torps for your damage.  When the torps are so bad, this really weakens your ship compared to other destroyers.

Speed:
The slow speed handicaps your ship in a way that other DDs are not handicapped.  The 10km torp range, their poor detection stats and the general RNG of torping pushes you towards occasionally wandering into radar range.  The inability of the destroyer to escape radar also removes the ability in many cases to smoke up and set a fire if you're able to get a flooding (other DDs get to do this but good luck with such a slow reload and so few guns on the IJN ship) and if you happen to get ambushed because other players aren't all incompetent like you're hoping they are, you die.  Other DDs have the tools to get away.  Again, you're relying on incompetent players rather than any strengths of the ship. 

All you have to do is play it and then compare it to other similar tier DDs to realize it's weaker in pretty much ever aspect.  Hoping and praying other ships make mistakes does not make a ship strong, it makes it completely reactionary to opposition and cannot force it's own will on the battle like other DDs can.  If you go up against players who know what they're doing when you are in a Shiratsuyu you are, as empirical evidence shows, at a disadvantage almost every time.  You get outgunned by enemy DDs, you can't smoke up to fire start because of radar, your torps are easy to spot and dodge, if you have the torp launcher then you might get to be useful once every 3 or 4 minutes a few times a game assuming they don't just chase you down and kill you, you're less nimble than most destroyers and the only thing you have going for you (detection) is made fairly moot in many cases by the slow speeds.  It doesn't have "intricacies," it has weaknesses that far outweigh any strengths.  There were no expectations on my part regarding the ship, I've just used it and realized the truth about it.

 

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I looked at your stats and indeed you have skipped Shiratsuyu, having only 8 games played with dismal stats. Your Kagero, Yuugumo and Shimakaze stats are middling at most.Combining with the above statements, it seems you have a wrong mindset when playing IJN DDs.

Let's look at the points you highlighted:

A. Guns:

4 hours ago, WidochMeirker said:

It's the telltale sign of someone who can read statistics and has been playing the game for a while.  In a fair 1v1 gunfight against any other similar tier, the opposing destroyer has more gun power than you do and if played correctly will never lose to you.  The guns require you to hope for enemy incompetence.   If you believe otherwise, you're simply displaying ignorance. Outside of other IJN DDs, every single destroyer from T6 and up easily outguns you.

    Smart DD drivers NEVER play "fair". Only scrub DD players believe that superior DDs are those that win in a 1 vs 1 engagement with other DDs. The game does not revolve around singular engagements as this is a team battle where multiple ships one side engages multiple ships from the other side. IJN DD guns are not mainly used aggressively like gunboats, but they are "weapons of oppportunity". You shoot at distracted enemies, you shoot at enemy ships to lure them into your torp launches, and for the more skilled players, you shoot to bait enemies into shooting at you while you kite away, drawing gunfire away from your teammates. With the upcoming IJN DD gun changes, IJN DDs will now have the best DD gun alpha damage at 2150 per shell (compared to the usual 1500-1900 dmg per shell from other DDs). Also, the "every single destroyer from T6 and up easily outguns you" line is very narrow-minded. If you put yourself in a position where the other DD outuns you, the blame is on you for putting yourself in that position, not on the DD.

 

B. Torpedoes:

4 hours ago, WidochMeirker said:

People who complain about this are people who have the ability to look at other destroyers with similar range torpedoes.  Once again, you're relying on the enemy being incompetent.  The detection is so bad on the torps and ships have so much time to react that your hits rely on an incompetent player, luck or the occasional perfect situation.  The fact that your guns on this ship are so bad and the ship speed is so bad means you can't outrun any radar or many other DDs in the game.  This requires you to generally rely on the torps for your damage.  When the torps are so bad, this really weakens your ship compared to other destroyers.

Let us look at Shiratsuyu's torps and compare it to its T7 counterparts:

Spoiler

 

  • Shiratsuyu – 17,233dmg, 62knot speed, 10km range, 2x4 layout, 101s cooldown(can equip TRB)

Tech Tree:

  • Akatsuki – 17,233dmg, 62knot speed, 10km range, 3x3 layout, 76s cooldown
  • Mahan – 11,600dmg, 55knot speed, 9.2km range, 3x4 layout, 87s cooldown
  • Leberecht Maass – 14,400dmg, 65knot speed, 8.5km range, 2x4 layout, 65s cooldown
  • Minsk – 17,993dmg, 65knot speed, 4km range, 2x4 layout, 65s cooldown (cannot stealth torp), 
  • Jervis – 15,7333dmg, 59knot speed, 7km range, 2x5 layout, 120s cooldown
  • Gadjah Mada –15,866dmg, 61knot speed, 8km range, 2x5 layout, 120s cooldown(does not hit DDs)


Premiums:

  • Sims –8,500dmg, 49knot speed, 9.2km range, 2x4 layout, 72s cooldown
  • Z-39 – 14,400dmg, 65knot speed, 8.5km range, 2x4 layout, 90s cooldown
  • Leningrad – 15,100dmg, 60knot speed, 8km range, 2x4 layout, 92s cooldown
  • Haida – 16,766dmg, 62knot speed, 8km range, 1x4 layout, 96s cooldown
  • Blyskawica – 14,400dmg, 57knot speed, 8km range, 2x3 layout, 70s cooldown

 

 

 

From all the DDs that has the ability to stealth-torp(excluding the Akatsuki as it mounts the same torps as Shiratsuyu), the only one that has comparable damage to the Shiratsuyu is the Haida with its 16,766dmg torps, but as the Haida only has 1x4 torp launcher with 96s cooldown, using its torps as its main weapon is not viable. The Gadjah Madah comes next, having 15,866dmg torps in 2x5 setup, but its torps cannot hit DDs,  its range is limited to 8km, and it has a horrendous 120s cooldown, making torp launches more risky as it has go get closer to enemies to launch. You can notice national characteristics at this point. Germans have good torpedo speed, fast reload and workable range, but low-damage torps with low flooding chance. Americans have good range, but very poor damage and speed. Russians (with the exception of Leningrad) cannot stealth torp. British has single-launch torps with average damage, but low speed and very high cooldown. Pan-Asian has deepwater torps that has above-average damage and detection, but cannot hit DDs, has average range and very high cooldown. So what is the IJN's characteristic? It is high damage, high range torps with good speed but high cooldown and higher detection. This characteristic is for balance reasons, because if you give the IJN torps the best speed, best damage and best detection, it will become very overpowered and will bring back the old problem of torpedo soup. 

Also, anyone can torp, but it takes skill to torp properly. IJN DDs are the highest skill-floor DDs in the game as it demands more skill from the player to perform properly compared to other DD lines, and smart launching of torpedoes is one of the required skills.

Going back to Shiratsuyu, she has the best damage and range among T7 DDs. She also has the ability to use TRB, doubling her torpedo salvo and allowing skilled players to lock down an entire flank and prevent enemy pushes. Carrying TRB also allows Shiratsuyu to spot the enemy more instead of camping in smoke like what other T7 DDs do. This dynamic gameplay gives Shiratsuyu the edge in giving your team information on the enemies in the flank while deterring the enemies from pushing.

 

 

C. Speed

4 hours ago, WidochMeirker said:

The slow speed handicaps your ship in a way that other DDs are not handicapped.  The 10km torp range, their poor detection stats and the general RNG of torping pushes you towards occasionally wandering into radar range.  The inability of the destroyer to escape radar also removes the ability in many cases to smoke up and set a fire if you're able to get a flooding (other DDs get to do this but good luck with such a slow reload and so few guns on the IJN ship) and if you happen to get ambushed because other players aren't all incompetent like you're hoping they are, you die.  Other DDs have the tools to get away.  Again, you're relying on incompetent players rather than any strengths of the ship. 

See, this is the reason why smart IJN DD players highly recommend taking RPF, as it eliminates "surprise ambushes" from enemy DDs. Also, dealing with enemy radar cruisers is a skill that skilled DD players (not just IJN DD players) are required to learn starting at this tier, and complaining about being killed because of "wandering into enemy radar ranges" is something only scrubs do. 

 

 

4 hours ago, WidochMeirker said:

All you have to do is play it and then compare it to other similar tier DDs to realize it's weaker in pretty much ever aspect.  Hoping and praying other ships make mistakes does not make a ship strong, it makes it completely reactionary to opposition and cannot force it's own will on the battle like other DDs can.  If you go up against players who know what they're doing when you are in a Shiratsuyu you are, as empirical evidence shows, at a disadvantage almost every time.  You get outgunned by enemy DDs, you can't smoke up to fire start because of radar, your torps are easy to spot and dodge, if you have the torp launcher then you might get to be useful once every 3 or 4 minutes a few times a game assuming they don't just chase you down and kill you, you're less nimble than most destroyers and the only thing you have going for you (detection) is made fairly moot in many cases by the slow speeds.  It doesn't have "intricacies," it has weaknesses that far outweigh any strengths.  There were no expectations on my part regarding the ship, I've just used it and realized the truth about it.

At this point, I'm realizing that all these complaints stem from sheer incompetence on your part, with you constantly blaming the ship not fitting your expectations. This is one thing I highly dislike from unskilled players, complaining how a ship "sucks" or how a ship is "terrible" because it does not fit how you play. Add the fact that you are a mediocre-to-average DD player, your complaints become even more inexcusable, as you blame the ship for not performing the way you want, not your lack of experience and skill.

Edited by RyuuohD_NA

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