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evilleMonkeigh

Do many Unicums ever pick Vigilance?

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Just wondering how many top level players use this skill (and on what ships)

Browsing other captain build threads of various ships, I don't tend to see it recommended by many good players.

It tends to be comments like "I suggest vigilance as a USN DD skill because I get torped a lot in my Fletcher......"  :cap_hmm:

 

It just seems like a skill that can be (a) duplicated by sensible play and (b) is rarely needed.  How often do you get hit by torpedoes anyway?  Every other game?

As someone who plays a lot of destroyers, I feel that close range torps can be un-dodegable, and long range ones can be avoided by slight course changes, leaving only the "fify-fify" mid range shots the most effected by vigilance.

Anyway, it appears to me, as an average player, that vigilance is not a particularly vital skill (but I'd be interested to hear otherwise by top tier players)

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It seems this skill is sorta outdated to the current meta because by now, you have much more players using WASD when their spider senses are tingling or able to predict a torp drop.

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I'm not sure If I qualify as a unicum player but I run Vigilance on three of my captains. 
DesMoines/Missouri Captain has it because those ships get up close to torpedo boats.
Zao has it because the ships isn't very nimble and more torpedo warning means a better chance at dodging. 
Roma has it....Honestly I'm not sure why I gave the Roma Vigilance but it can be useful. 

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I'm no unicum, but I use it on several builds, mostly those that are on ships with Hydro (esp. KM), but also on a few T10s like Yamato. I still get called a hacker now and then for somehow reacting just a few seconds faster to a torpedo burst. Especially from an angry PA DD player.

Same goes for using TAM instead of Concealment Module and spotting hidden ships 1km sooner when smoke diving. Like, I legit slow creeped into some DD's smoke, lit them up at 3km, and just instantly melted them with a burst of HE from an invisible ship they couldn't pick up because their smoke visibility was limited to 2km.

That being said, both Vigilance and TAM could do with a bit of a buff. In exchange, buff the IJN torpedo concealment as well, so that if players want to better avoid them like they wish to avoid DWs, then Vigilance would be the way to do so at the expense of some other 3pt skill.

Edited by YamatoA150

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44 minutes ago, evilleMonkeigh said:

Just wondering how many top level players use this skill (and on what ships)

Browsing other captain build threads of various ships, I don't tend to see it recommended by many good players.

It tends to be comments like "I suggest vigilance as a USN DD skill because I get torped a lot in my Fletcher......"  :cap_hmm:

 

It just seems like a skill that can be (a) duplicated by sensible play and (b) is rarely needed.  How often do you get hit by torpedoes anyway?  Every other game?

As someone who plays a lot of destroyers, I feel that close range torps can be un-dodegable, and long range ones can be avoided by slight course changes, leaving only the "fify-fify" mid range shots the most effected by vigilance.

Anyway, it appears to me, as an average player, that vigilance is not a particularly vital skill (but I'd be interested to hear otherwise by top tier players)

Dang. I adore your profile pic.

 

In a BB, its really only worth it on Germans with hydro (imo). Even then its more for the 'for fun' builds. For 3 points SI or BoS are so much better

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It's a badly needed 3 points, but if you're getting torped a lot, it can be useful. I don't run it but I did, before I developed my spider sense. My chief method of torpedo avoidance is: don't sail in the same direction for very long.

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Experienced players are also experienced at judging when and where torps will be fired at them. Coupled with the many ships that now have hydro, and the expensive cost of vigilance (3 pts) it is les desirable.

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It's a TEAMWORK skill.

You might know there are likely torps on the way, but the rest of your team (including bots you're trying to protect in ops) do not.

If your ship spots these early..  the other players - and bots can evade them.

I keep them in all my operations captains.... except dynamo where all the skills are stacked on AA.

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I’m not a unicum either, but I often finding myself wanting to use it but picking something else more important  instead. I think my German DD captain is the only one...

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Plan on using it on my RN DD captain and I have it on the German special captain that gets a bonus too it. Who will likely be my Z-52 captain if I ever get to grinding towards that again...

Edited by Stand_Alone97

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Im just an average player but in my opinion itonly expands torpedo detection but not ship detection so I skip it. If it increased sho detection as well for hydro I'd do it in a heart beat on a lot of ships but until then, nah.

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SE and SI are better at damage mitigation than vigilance, if you're good enough to evade torpedoes. Good players don't take it. 

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I'm not that good, but on 50 ships I don't take it on any.

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I use it as my main skill for Germans battleships

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Most of my ships use Vigilance. Including most of my DDs as well.

Take my Z-52 for example. I have the Fran Jutland special Cmdr on it that comes with 35% Vigilance over the normal 25%. The base torp detection of Z52 hydro is 4.03km, 25% Vigilance brings it up to 5.03 km and the 35% Vigilance brings it up to 5.43km. This way, I make sure that the rest of my team has PLENTY of time to react.

The more reaction time you have for torps, the better. Especially if you will get cross torped.

There is this myth that needs deconstructing... "DD's don't need Vigilance". None sense, DD's need it more then any other class because we don't have heal and have low hp. I see DD players get torped all the time including in the ranked 5-2 brackets.

One of the things we DD capts like to do, but at our own peril in the absence of radar is capping and sitting. Some like to do so broadside. Next thing you know, you eat 1-2 torps because the time it takes to accelerate and without Vigilance means you are taking a big risk.

Take Khab for example. If you are moving at 43+ knots in Khab and you are sailing head into a torp that is moving at 65++ knots with a detection of like 1.6, then really you have even less time to react because of the speed of which both objects are moving towards one another. I see Khabs getting torped all the time. I use to get torped in my Khab a lot, but with Vigilance? not any more.

There are few ships in my port that don't run Vigilance. Not because it's not needed, it's because the desirable build for those ships won't allow it or because it's a CV.

Edited by Aiser50

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19 minutes ago, Aiser50 said:

Most of my ships use Vigilance. Including most of my DDs as well.

Take my Z-52 for example. I have the Fran Jutland special Cmdr on it that comes with 35% Vigilance over the normal 25%. The base torp detection of Z52 hydro is 4.03km, 25% Vigilance brings it up to 5.03 km and the 35% Vigilance brings it up to 5.43km. This way, I make sure that the rest of my team has PLENTY of time to react.

The more reaction time you have for torps, the better. Especially if you will get cross torped.

There is this myth that needs deconstructing... "DD's don't need Vigilance". None sense, DD's need it more then any other class because we don't have heal and have low hp. I see DD players get torped all the time including in the ranked 5-2 brackets.

One of the things we DD capts like to do, but at our own peril in the absence of radar is capping and sitting. Some like to do so broadside. Next thing you know, you eat 1-2 torps because the time it takes to accelerate and without Vigilance means you are taking a big risk.

Take Khab for example. If you are moving at 43+ knots in Khab and you are sailing head into a torp that is moving at 65++ knots with a detection of like 1.6, then really you have even less time to react because of the speed of which both objects are moving towards one another. I see Khabs getting torped all the time. I use to get torped in my Khab a lot, but with Vigilance? not any more.

There are few ships in my port that don't run Vigilance. Not because it's not needed, it's because the desirable build for those ships won't allow it or because it's a CV.

Vigilance is giving you just over a second to react to torpedoes. This almost never comes up being useful, unlike having an extra use of every consumable with SI or more HP with SE. Most games vigilance won't be even used. It's even more questionable on BBs where 1 second of reaction time is going to prevent torpedo hits once in a blue moon. 

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I have it on minotaur , it give me chance to detect Toronto 5km away when hydro is on , useful to not get torpedo in smoke

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I use it on Minotaur with capt. skill for bigger smoke and extended hydro mod. I find it useful as other friendlies often pile into my larger than normal smoke and it helps out with torp detection for them.

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The real question is what unicums prefer VGLance. And the answer to that is... yes.

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59 minutes ago, NeoRussia said:

Vigilance is giving you just over a second to react to torpedoes. This almost never comes up being useful, unlike having an extra use of every consumable with SI or more HP with SE. Most games vigilance won't be even used. It's even more questionable on BBs where 1 second of reaction time is going to prevent torpedo hits once in a blue moon. 

What you don't take into account are the following.

1) Torpedo speed.

2) Torpedo detection

3) By how much 25% will increase the torpedo detection.

 

If we take at8 Benson torps with 1.1 detect, then 25% will give you around 1.3/1.4km KM  to react. Then you take it's slow 55 knots speech, you get more then 1 second to react.

Or kageros 1.7km detect torps brings it up to around 2.1-2.2km additional room to compensate for those faster torps.

 

It's not whether they "almost never never comes up being useful" but rather ALWAYS come up being useful.

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