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M4Katyusha

Hedgehog Anti Submarine Weapon

would adding Hedghogs make subs useless  

22 members have voted

  1. 1. would adding Hedghogs make subs unplayable?

  2. 2. should they be added to the game?


26 comments in this topic

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so anyone here heard of the Hedgehog? it was deployed in 1942 and it has increase sub kill rate by 25%. would WG add that to US and Royal Navy ships? so what you think?image.thumb.png.9d0c844333b5f82258002d9bee1dd06c.png

Edited by M4Katyusha

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It would be nice if it gave the RN and USN ships a national flavour as being better sub killers than other nations, who have to drive over the sub and directly drop depth charges on them. Might need to be a number 4 weapon (ie, HE is 1, AP is 2, torps are 3, this is 4)

I still think cruisers should be the best sub hunters in game on the basis that DDs have enough jobs to do already, but cries of ‘ahistorical’ would get nauseating.

Edited by UltimateNewbie

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This is cruel and heartless. You want to fire small, ground dwelling mammals at warships. Are they going to gnaw through the hull?

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1 minute ago, Doombeagle said:

Are they going to gnaw through the hull?

They're going to clog up the snorkel.

And bog down the screw.

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3 minutes ago, Jester_of_War said:

They're going to clog up the snorkel.

And bog down the screw.

image.png.8f54da61d7591a9fad262310c501a19d.png

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21 minutes ago, M4Katyusha said:

so anyone here heard of the Hedgehog? it was deployed in 1942 and it has increase sub kill rate by 25%. would WG add that to US and Royal Navy ships? so what you think?image.thumb.png.9d0c844333b5f82258002d9bee1dd06c.png

Because as I'm dodging fire in a ship with the lowest health pool with guns that require me to be firing them non-stop to try and maintain any DPM and try and get a fire going after the target already has used a heal to get meaningful damage the thing I want to do is aim a hedgehog....or any other ASW weapon.

Keep submarines out of the base game.

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3 minutes ago, LubzinNJ said:

Because as I'm dodging fire in a ship with the lowest health pool with guns that require me to be firing them non-stop to try and maintain any DPM and try and get a fire going after the target already has used a heal to get meaningful damage the thing I want to do is aim a hedgehog....or any other ASW weapon.

Keep submarines out of the base game.

dds would be less important as targets when bbs and CAs are aware that submarines are hunting them. Subs would give dds breathing room, and bbs, nightmares.

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Just now, LoveBote said:

dds would be less important as targets when bbs and CAs are aware that submarines are hunting them. Subs would give dds breathing room, and bbs, nightmares.

it would also encourage team play. Ships without ASW or Hydro would be wanting to stick close to their buddies when a sub is present in a game.

Also i can only see this game having at most 2 subs per side. Just enough threat where players are cautious but still feel like a traditional WOWS game.

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Leave subs out of the game - heck, lets just get rid of DD's too.

…..and have only one map - Ocean.

I REALLY like these ideas!

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1 minute ago, LoveBote said:

dds would be less important as targets when bbs and CAs are aware that submarines are hunting them. Subs would give dds breathing room, and bbs, nightmares.

If there is a sub on their team there is one on yours. Depending on how they're implemented subs could be a real game changer in their ability to spot without worrying about counterfire except from DDs...so if you have a sub on your team that does the job of a DD with an even lower chance of getting deleted than a DD, wouldn't you try and support your sub by first taking out the biggest threat to them?

Not really sure how you equate subs on the field = less of a target priority for DDs = DDs get the advantage of subs being added.

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4 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

dds would be less important as targets when bbs and CAs are aware that submarines are hunting them. Subs would give dds breathing room, and bbs, nightmares.

Except it wouldn't, it just makes DDs more vulnerable when trying to attack a sub because these requires very close range encounters that puts it in the subs' favor against enemy DDs.

There is no breathing room for DDs when a sub is lurking around because it leaves a blanket of fear on the team and puts pressure on the DDs when everyone barks at DDs to hunt down the subs.

It's already bad enough to have players bark at their own DDs for spotting or capping, imagine how horrid the barking would be when there's a stealthy underwater boat running amok.

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7 minutes ago, LubzinNJ said:

If there is a sub on their team there is one on yours. Depending on how they're implemented subs could be a real game changer in their ability to spot without worrying about counterfire except from DDs...so if you have a sub on your team that does the job of a DD with an even lower chance of getting deleted than a DD, wouldn't you try and support your sub by first taking out the biggest threat to them?

Not really sure how you equate subs on the field = less of a target priority for DDs = DDs get the advantage of subs being added.

currently, we have the opposite happening in game. DDs are doing the job of subs.

Subs, due to their very low position in the water, are in fact, terrible spotters, their spotting range, would be very low. They would be most effective, where spotting range does not matter, among island channels and choke points, for example. They would rely heavily on limited range consumeables, hydro, to boost their spotting ability.

Low speed, limited armament, terrible vision control, pfft, no competition for fast, agile, dds with superb spotting range. After all, just how many miles can a submerged sub spot? Zero. At periscope depth? 4 or 5 km? On the surface? Oh right, bad place to be as a sub.

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1 minute ago, Vader_Sama said:

It's already bad enough to have players bark at their own DDs for spotting or capping, imagine how horrid the barking would be when there's a stealthy underwater boat running amok.

Look, I play cvs, worse, I play (*cough* main) perhaps the most hated cv in the game, the Graf Zeppelin. What do I care about a few barks?

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Because what the subs will bring in a random game environment is more toxicity.

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3 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

currently, we have the opposite happening in game. DDs are doing the job of subs.

Subs, due to their very low position in the water, are in fact, terrible spotters, their spotting range, would be very low. They would be most effective, where spotting range does not matter, among island channels and choke points, for example. They would rely heavily on limited range consumeables, hydro, to boost their spotting ability.

Low speed, limited armament, terrible vision control, pfft, no competition for fast, agile, dds with superb spotting range. After all, just how many miles can a submerged sub spot? Zero. At periscope depth? 4 or 5 km? On the surface? Oh right, bad place to be as a sub.

Right now aren't all ships detection ability equal? Will they change that for subs?

How they're implemented is going to be very interesting....but still no matter how they implement them I vote no for subs. Aside from my usual argument that they have no place in the kind of battles that are "replicated" in WOWS, the only boats that could have a place in being able to fight in these battles and have a chance at keeping up are all T9 or T10 technologically.

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its funny how people moan about gimmicks on RN ships, but the Hedgehog is one of them "gimmicks" developed by the RN and put on their ships that was ultimately a success even though replaced by Squid etc.

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Fantastic concept. Can't wait for it to be introduced.

Remember, it is very limited.

You must aim the ship. You must move the ship to the exact firing range before pulling the trigger.

That will take time

Time during which other ships will be shooting at you.

And I'd expect hedgehogs to come in at about Tier VII ... about the same time as faster, more manouvrable submarines.

Tier X can have the Squid anti-submarine mortar (greater range, heavier charge). Maybe even air-dropped homing torps, as were deployed in the last days of WW2. But TX subs could have air-independent propulsion or larger battery charges...

Plenty of scale to balance here

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1 minute ago, HMS_Formidable said:

Fantastic concept. Can't wait for it to be introduced.

Remember, it is very limited.

You must aim the ship. You must move the ship to the exact firing range before pulling the trigger.

That will take time

Time during which other ships will be shooting at you.

 

Which is my main gripe about people saying that DDs now have a true purpose of doing their jobs. The process of attacking a submerged sub is very risky and leaves DDs far too vulnerable to properly carry it out.

DD's are literally doing yolos whenever they try to attack a sub and somehow that's acceptable?

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Just now, Vader_Sama said:

Which is my main gripe about people saying that DDs now have a true purpose of doing their jobs. The process of attacking a submerged sub is very risky and leaves DDs far too vulnerable to properly carry it out.

DD's are literally doing yolos whenever they try to attack a sub and somehow that's acceptable?

They do this now when capping.

That is apparently acceptable, while the big ships hug the boundary lines or low-slung islands...

With subs, perhaps those spots that don't normally attract DD attention would no longer be quite as desirable ...

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29 minutes ago, Nikolay_Kuznetsov_ said:

The Subs you speak of are for Halloween Event. There is nothing but Rumor of Subs being introduced in any other Mode of the game.

Yes, but the general consensuses is Halloween is a trial run for subs. There has been several threads on subs. Why not discuss anti-sub weapons?

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Although ostensibly submarines are for the Halloween mode, there seems a lot of inertia for them. What we've seen isn't a 20-minute hatchet job, it's taken a lot of effort. WG won't waste that.

In game I can readily see a variety of anti-submarine weapons and Hedgehog may well have a place. One of the major issues with dealing with submarines will be the lack of range. Even if they're spotted at closish range you can't target them without going straight over them - if they're lurking near friends, they're immune. At least if you spot that Shima 5, 6, 7km out you can shoot it. A submarine even if you're hydro-ing that you have to run over directly? Not good.

 

However, Hedgehog  will hardly add any advantage in game, their range was something like 150-250 yards. In game with speed acceleration that will only take a 35kt destroyer about 3s to traverse - which is practically no difference. Depending on how WG implement DC mechanics they may well not be any more effective.

The longer ranged ASW mortar systems, Squid and Limbo also have serious range limitations. The Squid does 275 yards. The post-war Limbo can get out to about 1,000 yards but as far as I'm aware isn't mounted on any ship in game, the high-tier RN destroyers being equipped with Squid only.

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55 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

Yes, but the general consensuses is Halloween is a trial run for subs. There has been several threads on subs. Why not discuss anti-sub weapons?

POYpEaA.gif

This is my opinion of subs and the forums

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12 hours ago, Nikolay_Kuznetsov_ said:

POYpEaA.gif

This is my opinion of subs and the forums

Fine, but others have different opinions.

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