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EasyEight

Damage & flooding for ramming an island?

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Ok, I see more and more the tactic or ploughing your ship into an island at high speed in order to dodge a torpedo. It's getting stupidly common because there is no penalty for ramming into rocks with your ship. WOWs should institute damage for grounding based on your speed, and add at least one flooding hit to your ship automatically. This means you need to be a more careful ship driver, and you take a penalty for intentionally ramming our ship into land during the game.

Why? Because land and ships mix poorly. The single largest loss of US navy ships happened in 1923 when, through a tragedy of errors, *seven* Clemson class DDs from DesRon 11 rammed into the California coastline at 20+ knots . Seven destroyers smashed on the rocks, 23 dead, hundreds injured.

450px-NH_66721_Honda_Point.gif

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Point_disaster

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Flooding from hitting land was in alpha or beta testing and people sunk themselves way too easily. So I highly doubt it will come back.

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So I guess sitting completely still in the water for over a minute is not punishing enough?

Or even worse get wedged in a weird way that prevents your ship from even moving.

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It would certainly be more realistic.  I have scraped the side of my hull along the length of an island that should have left a gash larger than the Titanic's, with no damage whatsoever.  

 

Now can someone explain the physics whereby two friendly vessels collide with minimal damage, while enemy ships go up in a blaze of glory?  Do the crews spread gasoline throughout the ships when a collision with an enemy is impending?

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10 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

Flooding from hitting land was in alpha or beta testing and people sunk themselves way too easily. So I highly doubt it will come back.

Would be far to easy to “ Accidentally TK” with no penalty by ramming a player into an island if that would sink them. WoT Blitz has team damage turned off unless you want it on for a training room, and some players figured out out to TK by pushing and holding Allied tanks in deep water, was rare to have happen, but I have seen it. So yeah for many reasons glad Island Damage is turned off.

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Damage can happen in WoWS, too.  But only if you manage to move the island.

 

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23 minutes ago, EasyEight said:

Ok, I see more and more the tactic or ploughing your ship into an island at high speed in order to dodge a torpedo. It's getting stupidly common because there is no penalty for ramming into rocks with your ship. WOWs should institute damage for grounding based on your speed, and add at least one flooding hit to your ship automatically. This means you need to be a more careful ship driver, and you take a penalty for intentionally ramming our ship into land during the game.

Why? Because land and ships mix poorly. The single largest loss of US navy ships happened in 1923 when, through a tragedy of errors, *seven* Clemson class DDs from DesRon 11 rammed into the California coastline at 20+ knots . Seven destroyers smashed on the rocks, 23 dead, hundreds injured.

450px-NH_66721_Honda_Point.gif

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Point_disaster

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this is a GAME   not a real life simulation...

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I mean I guess they could add removed game mechanics as options to the training room/custom games. Want OWSF back again? Grabs some friends and mosey on over to them there training rooms. 

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13 minutes ago, Seaneroo said:

It would certainly be more realistic.  I have scraped the side of my hull along the length of an island that should have left a gash larger than the Titanic's, with no damage whatsoever.  

 

Now can someone explain the physics whereby two friendly vessels collide with minimal damage, while enemy ships go up in a blaze of glory?  Do the crews spread gasoline throughout the ships when a collision with an enemy is impending?

More realistic is the maps would look much more like Ocean than the rock gardens that the other maps are. The US navy considered the area around Guadalcanal to be constricted waters and the gap between Guadalcanal and Savo Island was five miles with the gaps between the other islands approaching 20 miles. Our maps have gaps that are under a mile which is probably fine for an anchorage but not for combat.

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That would be fine if the maps were also realistic, as it open water. We have one, it's called Ocean and nearly everyone hates it. In the constricted maps we have in WOWS, people are going to hit islands, adding damage would just be frustrating. You already lose enough. Hit an island in a ship, and usually you're a sitting duck for 30 sec to 2 minutes while you reverse off. If you're trying to make an escape, it's almost always fatal. Even worse is when you don't hit head on, and you get kind of stuck and have to play with rudder and throttle to get off, takes even longer.

Besides, the islands in WOWS are special. They're transparent to radio and sound waves, and allow AA shells to pass through, though if those AA guns are shooting at ship, then they block the shells. So not really surprising that they don't damage ships.

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1 hour ago, Vader_Sama said:

even worse get wedged in a weird way that prevents your ship from even moving.

Have had this happen to me before. Sucks and I can inly be mad at myself, even worse.:Smile_facepalm:

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5 minutes ago, Seaneroo said:

It would certainly be more realistic.  I have scraped the side of my hull along the length of an island that should have left a gash larger than the Titanic's, with no damage whatsoever.  

 

Now can someone explain the physics whereby two friendly vessels collide with minimal damage, while enemy ships go up in a blaze of glory?  Do the crews spread gasoline throughout the ships when a collision with an enemy is impending?

Better yet, if you want realism, then Carriers would completely dominate the game and, for most battles, not only would the carrier attacking you not be on the same map as your BB, but you wouldn't even see the surface ships escorting it.  In some of the most significant battles in WWII's Pacific theater (Coral Sea, Midway, etc.), the opposing fleets never came within gun range of each other, let alone saw each other.

Then we would have to remove the ability to put out 4 massive fires all at once simultaneously, and we certainly wouldn't be able to do so multiple times in a 20 minute period.  Likewise, you couldn't let your BB burn nearly to the keel, then repair it to near full health at sea while, usually, under additional fire from the enemy.  Likewise, since when was it "realistic" for a BB to get up to cruising speed from a dead stop in just 20 minutes, let alone go from dead slow, stopped, or even reverse to full speed multiple times in that 20 minutes?

Speaking of damage, I don't notice an issue with how your ship could be so badly damaged that it is blackened from stem to stern, yet none of your crew ever seems to get injured and your ship operates with the same peak efficiency, from a crew perspective, as it did when General Quarters was called?  For that matter, how is that your bridge can repeatedly take multiple 5" - 16+" gun hits, yet your Captain miraculously never gets injured, let alone killed, and he is always instantly ready to go out again, even on another ship, never lost even when your ship sinks?

We could go on, but why?  Not only is this not a simulator, even simulators make compromises for the sake of playability.  People suffer from selective realism.  For instance, it is unrealistic that your ship takes no damage from grounding, but it is not a problem that my 19 point Captain seems to be made of vibranium and is completely indestructible, so I never have to replace him with a new Ensign that needs to be trained.

Grounding works this way because, if it was like reality, a ship that grounded itself would almost always stay grounded in what is left of the 20 minutes of game time.  Flooding would also be moot since the ship is likely stuck in shallow enough water, that it would not sink.  An while we are at it, just because a ship is ground does not mean it did so on a reef made of diamonds.  It is also possible to ground on nothing but a sand bar or beach.  Damage? Yeah.  A gash "larger than Titanic's," no.

That kind of reality would make game play unnecessarily frustrating.  As has been mentioned, coming to a dead stop and having to work your way off the island, making you a sitting duck for a minute or more, is punishment enough.

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Agree with those saying we should cut down the number of islands first then talk about damage.  There are way too many islands in this game for naval battles to be realistic so why should they cause real damage?

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1 hour ago, Seaneroo said:

It would certainly be more realistic.  I have scraped the side of my hull along the length of an island that should have left a gash larger than the Titanic's, with no damage whatsoever.  

 

Now can someone explain the physics whereby two friendly vessels collide with minimal damage, while enemy ships go up in a blaze of glory?  Do the crews spread gasoline throughout the ships when a collision with an enemy is impending?

Except for the fact that it's highly unrealistic that naval battles occurred this close to land!

As for friendly ramming, in real naval battles, ships fought in formation and followed orders and had multiple officers and crew who would keep an eye on other ships so that friendly ramming incidents were rare.  In this game, all you have is yourself, and everyone goes whichever way they want, so friendly ramming extremely common.  The game would be a ridiculous mess if ships took serious damage from friendly ramming.

 

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1 hour ago, Seaneroo said:

It would certainly be more realistic.  I have scraped the side of my hull along the length of an island that should have left a gash larger than the Titanic's, with no damage whatsoever.  

 

Now can someone explain the physics whereby two friendly vessels collide with minimal damage, while enemy ships go up in a blaze of glory?  Do the crews spread gasoline throughout the ships when a collision with an enemy is impending?

Corbomite devices.

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1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

That would be fine if the maps were also realistic, as it open water. We have one, it's called Ocean and nearly everyone hates it. In the constricted maps we have in WOWS, people are going to hit islands, adding damage would just be frustrating. You already lose enough. Hit an island in a ship, and usually you're a sitting duck for 30 sec to 2 minutes while you reverse off. If you're trying to make an escape, it's almost always fatal. Even worse is when you don't hit head on, and you get kind of stuck and have to play with rudder and throttle to get off, takes even longer.

Besides, the islands in WOWS are special. They're transparent to radio and sound waves, and allow AA shells to pass through, though if those AA guns are shooting at ship, then they block the shells. So not really surprising that they don't damage ships.

Yeah, captain would face court martial proceedings if he took his ship into pretty much any of these maps except Ocean. The navies of the world really hate it when two thirds of the earth's surface is covered with water, but one of their captains still manages to hit something. It is really expensive and worse, looks really ,really bad on the news.

And yes, WG islands are made of Styrofoam, since it is light and easy to move when they need to redesign the maps(well at least it would be if they ever changed the maps).

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4 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Except for the fact that it's highly unrealistic that naval battles occurred this close to land!

As for friendly ramming, in real naval battles, ships fought in formation and followed orders and had multiple officers and crew who would keep an eye on other ships so that friendly ramming incidents were rare.  In this game, all you have is yourself, and everyone goes whichever way they want, so friendly ramming extremely common.  The game would be a ridiculous mess if ships took serious damage from friendly ramming.

 

True. A lot of things are alter for "more friendly" game play. DD's would only have 1 torpedo per tube, no reloading. Most gun ranges would be at least 40% longer. BB secondaries would sink DD's at 16km and NO! the DD's couldn't get that close without being detected. The list can on but I feel the point has been made.

 

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Ghostdog has killed many islands. Iv'e caught them on fire, blown the tops off of them, torped them and rammed the crap out of them. 

 

th?id=OIP.tgHDGOiSpaMDLaEHoKMp3gHaHa&pidth?id=OIP.6iTZAW7zHOZfIw6HlUVmpwHaEK&pidth?id=OIP.Uv8gjq6knI-52pqjcNur1QHaFO&pidth?id=OIP.n_3d--YikN9y16-hhPOiZwHaEK&pid  Islands I personally killed myself. Last one I had to ram 3 times.

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Ghostdog1355 said:

Ghostdog has killed many islands. Iv'e caught them on fire, blown the tops off of them, torped them and rammed the crap out of them. 

 

th?id=OIP.tgHDGOiSpaMDLaEHoKMp3gHaHa&pidth?id=OIP.6iTZAW7zHOZfIw6HlUVmpwHaEK&pidth?id=OIP.Uv8gjq6knI-52pqjcNur1QHaFO&pidth?id=OIP.n_3d--YikN9y16-hhPOiZwHaEK&pid  Islands I personally killed myself. Last one I had to ram 3 times.

 

 

What did that poor island ever do to you?  :Smile_sad:

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3 hours ago, EasyEight said:

Ok, I see more and more the tactic or ploughing your ship into an island at high speed in order to dodge a torpedo. It's getting stupidly common because there is no penalty for ramming into rocks with your ship. WOWs should institute damage for grounding based on your speed, and add at least one flooding hit to your ship automatically. This means you need to be a more careful ship driver, and you take a penalty for intentionally ramming our ship into land during the game.

Why? Because land and ships mix poorly. The single largest loss of US navy ships happened in 1923 when, through a tragedy of errors, *seven* Clemson class DDs from DesRon 11 rammed into the California coastline at 20+ knots . Seven destroyers smashed on the rocks, 23 dead, hundreds injured.

450px-NH_66721_Honda_Point.gif

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Point_disaster

Comments?

 

 

The Honda point disaster. Honda point (labeled on many maps as Point Pedernales) is on the Vandenberg AFB reservation. I worked at Vandenberg for almost 12 years and I've been to Honda Point several times. Some of the wreckage from those DDs is still there. A propeller from one of those DDs is on display at the front of the Veteran's Memorial Building in Lompoc.

Edited by ReddNekk

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12 minutes ago, Crucis said:

What did that poor island ever do to you?  :Smile_sad:

Well Crucis honestly I was in the Krasney. Worst ship out out there. I was ducking and weaving shooting anything that looked red. I think MM gave me credit for burning and sinking anything

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4 minutes ago, Ghostdog1355 said:

Well Crucis honestly I was in the Krasney. Worst ship out out there. I was ducking and weaving shooting anything that looked red. I think MM gave me credit for burning and sinking anything

LOL!  The Krasney wouldn't be quite so bad if she was just put at tier 4.

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18 minutes ago, ReddNekk said:

The Honda point disaster. Honda point (also known as Point Pedernales) is on the Vandenberg AFB reservation. I worked at Vandenberg for almost 12 years and I've been to Honda Point several times. Some of the wreckage from those DDs is still there. A propeller from one of those DDs is on display at the front of the Veteran's Memorial Building in Lompoc.

Hey Redneck, Haven't talked to in awhile.

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