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Jdelgado20005

Cossack vs Haida

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Hi Everyone,

I'm not too savvy on the actual technical specs on each ship, however i don't consider myself a "noob" at all. My question comes to what actually decides what tier a ship should be categorized by???

I own both Haida VII and Cossack VIII. So i bought the Cossack thinking it will be a nice upgrade from the Haida. I think I'm finally making the Cossack work for me but looking at the stats of each ship i realized that the stats of the Haida are better.

I usually achieve 100K dmg with the Haida most of the time, and as for the Cossack boy is it an achievement when I do.  I did upgrade commander skill for Turret Traverse speed on the Cossack bringing my Artillery up by 1.

 

Stats for Haida:

Suitability: 26

Artillery:  29

Torpedoes: 11

AA Defense: 22

Maneuverability: 85

Concealment: 96

 

Stats for Cossack

Suitability: 27

Artillery:  28 (27 without commander skill)

Torpedoes: 12

AA Defense: 11

Maneuverability: 84

Concealment: 97

 

If anyone could explain this .. well you da real MVP.

 

Thanks all and may everyone have a GG!

shot-18.09.27_18.03.48-0483.jpg

shot-18.09.27_18.03.55-0482.jpg

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Ratings are more or less useless when it comes to comparing ships. Harugumo has a 22 Artillery rating. Would you say she's weaker than  Cossack or Haida?

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Hey

I like my Haida but I decided not to buy the cossack.  It just doesn't seem to be all that great and have any real attributes to being a good DD, hence why it's "Mehbote" rating.

 

Pete

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The ship ratings are worthless.

But basically the Cossack is a Haida that sees T10s with the radars, Kitikazes etc, and a Haida sees more T5s and Omahas.

Is an extra turret worth it?

 

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The Haida is an amazing DD that rewards aggressive players (with brains) well. I don't regret the purchase at all as it's become my favorite T7 premium even over the likes of Blyskawica and Leningrad. Both of which are awesome destroyers as well. It's not the easiest to play, but when you figure it out, everything sinks...

I don't own the Cossack. I thought the price was a little obnoxious. it was easily a $89.00CAD package. But I'd love to try it out.

 

 

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Cossack is all about stealth and tactical control of areas, not racking up big damage numbers.

Why are you doing better stats wise in Haida?  At a glance I would say you are being way too aggressive in the Cossack and being punished heavily. Your survivability rate in Cossack is 20% while in Haida it is 35%. Improve your survivability and your stats will naturally increase.

 It is not a gunboat as such and is not ideally suited to chasing down an enemy and sinking them in one engagement. You also cannot stop in smoke and farm like you do in other DDs because your smoke is short lived. Think more along the lines of spot enemy, run off 3-4 salvos while turning away and hitting smoke. Reposition and do it again and again until enemy is sunk or running.

As to the difference between T7 & T8, on the face of it there isn't a huge change in ship specs but the big advantage is being able to take the concealment upgrade.

 

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Though both are Tribals they play very differently, moreso than Leander and Perth, even. I think each fit into their own niche, which suit their matchmaking.

 

Haida is kind of a low-tier bully that can easily outgun any DD it runs into on a cap, with the creeping smoke and hydro basically making her do everything the Perth wants to, without having a citadel. It's a kind of one-trick pony that works because nobody really has the tools to deal with you- only Atlanta, Flint, Indianapolis and Belfast at your tier have radar, and Leberecht Maass are rare enough you don't get countered that often. There isn't really much to say about it as it's pretty straight forward in how it should be used.

 

Cossack is essentially an uptiered Haida, with the fat stripped away- the creeping smoke trick is only really viable at mid-low tiers, and the short duration/short CD smoke of Cossack has much greater utility in quickly breaking contact. Cossack, with excellent firepower and concealment is a great scout, able to slip around the enemy team and fight off pretty much all T8 DDs, and many T9s. The combo of powerful guns at short range and excellent concealment, means any DD duel you'll almost always be getting the first salvo. If they fight back, you can either pop smoke to break contact (and either run or restart the fight with another opening salvo from concealment), or if they're spotted by someone else, you can just sit in smoke, pop hydro and gun them down.

 

There are a lot of other advantages to Cossack that don't appear in the stats- notably that she has UK CL acceleration, meaning you can realistically open water gunboat at long range by playing with throttle, just like you can with the HIV. On top of that, it makes her the best torp evader in-game currently. There are also some disadvantages to Haida that don't appear up front- notably that she kind of needs Superintendent. Without it you only have 2 or 3 smokes total, which leaves little to spare if you have to pop one to escape any kind of bad situation- unlike Cossack which has 5/6 smokes without Super. Cossack's extra turret gives her functionally normal turret angles with 6 guns, unlike Haida which needs to basically present full broadside to fire all three turrets. Personally there is no doubt in my mind that Cossack is the better destroyer- more turrets with better overall angles, longer-range torpedoes, slightly better concealment and significantly better agility. I'd rather play Cossack in a T9 game than Haida in a T8 game, absolutely.

 

The problem with the comparison is of course that there is just too much radar at T8+ to play aggressively in any destroyer. If you yolo caps, you're just going to eat crap half the time and there's no way around that. This isn't a Cossack problem, per-se, but T8+ DD play is just a lot less... kinetic than T7 and below. Sometimes you just have to play like a dirtbag. If you're struggling to use Cossack, then you probably just need to learn how to play in a radar-dominated meta a little better.

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On 10/6/2018 at 8:48 PM, ElectroVeeDub said:

The Haida is an amazing DD that rewards aggressive players (with brains) well. I don't regret the purchase at all as it's become my favorite T7 premium even over the likes of Blyskawica and Leningrad. Both of which are awesome destroyers as well. It's not the easiest to play, but when you figure it out, everything sinks...

I don't own the Cossack. I thought the price was a little obnoxious. it was easily a $89.00CAD package. But I'd love to try it out.

 

 

Hey

That pretty well sums it up for me too.  I enjoy my Haida and do well in it, even liking that creeping smoke.  The Cossack just doesn't seem to bring much to the table over my other T8 DD's, so why get something that has little to offer, that's different.  Especially when you take into the price of the bundles these days, almost not worth buying for a Meh ship.

 

Pete

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On 9/29/2018 at 10:04 AM, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

I like my Haida but I decided not to buy the cossack.  It just doesn't seem to be all that great and have any real attributes to being a good DD, hence why it's "Mehbote" rating.

 

Pete

the difference though is that the cossack can be obtained for just one US dollar

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As I was saying before Haida and Cossack are both Tribal class, but Cossack has no secondaries. Not a big deal but I got a Double Strike in the first few games after getting Haida, and impossible to do with Cossack. For both to be Tribal class they seem to be much different ships. Laughed so hard I puked after the Haida Double Strike!!!

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On 10/7/2018 at 1:48 PM, ElectroVeeDub said:

The Haida is an amazing DD that rewards aggressive players (with brains) well. I don't regret the purchase at all as it's become my favorite T7 premium even over the likes of Blyskawica and Leningrad. Both of which are awesome destroyers as well. It's not the easiest to play, but when you figure it out, everything sinks...

This is true. I also have the Cossack, and for both ships I am in the top 5 on the server for stats (number 1 for Cossack damage - go me!)

 

As @Camo68 said above these ships are about map control, and area denial. If you know how to position your RN DD, you will win a LOT of games.

What makes Haida so powerful is the smoke reload time. With IFHE, its feasible to gun down the last 30k of a battleship or a cruiser, and your stealth makes you a pain for DD's. Literally the only class Haida suffers against is CV's but that's always going to be the case.

 

Cossack is very good even as bottom tier. You lack massive area alpha strike as the torps are few, but if you spot carefully and bide your time, and F3 that #$%#$ Wooster, then you will achieve great success. An excellent division ship. I regret buying neither of these ships, they reward good play so very well.

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These ships are both good, it depends how you play them. You can fail miserably with Des moines close range, some of the YT CCs saying its a close range ship when its med to long. Why? The reload. It depends how you look at it. The haida is specialty, while the cossack is a gunbote with UK perks. It depends on ur playstyle.

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On 10/8/2018 at 4:50 AM, Bill_Halsey said:

The Haida has secondaries.

I have 11 secondary kills with the Haida... I laugh every time

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Both,if you can afford it. They are both good ships at different tiers

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On 10/8/2018 at 6:50 PM, Bill_Halsey said:

The Haida has secondaries.

Indeed its so unusal and funny especially when the secondary gets you a DD kill.

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