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Avenge_December_7

Midway AP or HE Dive Bombers?

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As I'm currently grinding through the Midway modules in co-op (I may be that one guy that likes Pensacola and Emerald, but even I'm not crazy enough to grind a stock tier 10 CV in randoms or ranked), I'm wondering exactly what type of dive bomber should I use?

I realize that HE dive bombers are more versatile and can do things like break modules (especially AA modules) and stack DOT, but AP dive bombers can are less affected by AA and can nuke certain AA-heavy ships like Des Moines and Worcester, which HE dive bombers cannot do, not to mention you can sometimes force opponents to choose between using defensive fire on torpedo bombers or AP bombers.

Which one is more worthwhile?

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It depends on how you often see your team compositions as in co-op they determine your enemies. HE DBs are much safer as they are effective against everything AP bombs are so useful against certain ship types from certain nations. 

For Co-op If you're seeing a lot of T10 AA cruisers and German BBs of any tier then AP bombs

IF you see mostly other stuff i'd recommend HE bombs for more consistent damage. 

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AP, definitely.

HE bombs are fundamentally only good for taxing battleship DamCon and not much else. If you torp a battleship and get it down to like 30k health and blow their damcon, HE bombs are better than AP.

 

However, that's about the only reason to bring them- and that's a pretty niche reason.

AP bombs let you project your presence twice as much. If you're running HE bombs, the enemy CV can just flat-out ignore them and generally be fine. If you send them on their own, they simply don't have the punch to force a fighter presence.

AP bombs, on the other hand, demand a fighter presence because of their ability to 1-shot almost any cruiser(except Hindenburg and Minotaur). If the enemy CV doesn't have fighters there, they will lose ships on that side of the map. HE bombs simply don't have that presence.

 

With that added presence, you have so many more options. You can group up your two fighters and bull through a single side, or, (if you're facing a hakuryu), you can force a strike. Their two fighter squads beat one of yours- but on one side of the map, they have to have 1 fighter squad, and you can just lock that in and kill it easily.

Also, AP bombs let you threaten DfAA-armed cruisers. If you fly in with either your torps or your DBs, they must blow DfAA or else die- and then you just wait 30s and come in with the other.

AP bombs simply give you far more options with your plane spread, much more consistent damage against BBs(due to the drop circle, you can easily get 25k drops without any cits), more than double your power vs. cruisers(because AP bombers are so much faster than TBs, they're easier to strike with), and they enable you to do much better in the AS war.

 

Without AP bombs, hakuryu is undeniably better. With them, midway has far more striking power.

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If you do intend on using AP Bombs please refer to the following list:

♦ "Rekt" (3~5 drops / squadrons to kill a target )
New York, Colorado, Baltimore, Zao, Kongo, Fuso, Nagato, Queen Elisabeth / Warspite, FDG, Kronshtadt*(see New York)

♦ "Not Rekt" / "Rekt" (Better pray to RNGessus for citadels otherwise you may run out of planes,)
Donskoi, Hindenburg, Aoba, Myoko, Mogami, Ibuki, Minotaur, Bayern.

♦ "Tyrannosaurus Rekt" (2~3 drops / squadrons )
Algerie, Charles Martel, Saint-Louis, Henri IV, Gneisennau / Schanrnhorst, Bismarck / Tirpitz,  Buffalo, Des Moines, Seattle, Worcester, Moskva, Stalingrad*(see Moskva)

♦ Probably "Rekt" ( Gestimates made looking at armor scheme )
Texas*(see New York?), Hood, Roma, Nelson?(see FDG ), Alaska*?(see Buffalo? needs testing) Dunkirk*?(haven't looked at the armor)

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...no. That is horrifically wrong.

If you can land consistent cits on it, you have no excuse for not 1-shotting it. Ibuki is a prime example- it's fairly easy to cit. 

 

I'm also... Not quite sure why you're including t5 ships, given that they can't encounter AP bombs.

 

Buffalo gets citted, Cleveland is functionally un-citable, and Donskoi is citable.

 

F. der grobe is very hard to cit.

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44 minutes ago, Wobulator said:

...no. That is horrifically wrong.

If you can land consistent cits on it, you have no excuse for not 1-shotting it. Ibuki is a prime example- it's fairly easy to cit. 

 

I'm also... Not quite sure why you're including t5 ships, given that they can't encounter AP bombs.

 

Buffalo gets citted, Cleveland is functionally un-citable, and Donskoi is citable.

 

F. der grobe is very hard to cit.

The issue is AP bombs need minimum 65 mm of armor to have a "chance" of arming. Ideally they need to hit parts of the the ship that are 76~80mm to "guarantee" arming bombs. Max AP bomb penetration is just under/ less then 150mm

Ibuki has only vertical parts of it citadel / turrets that have sufficient armor to arm the AP bombs. Better prey to RNGessus that they land there, same could be said about the Minotaur.

USN AP bombs on T8~T10 CV are the same. What if a T5 BB Division fails into a T8 CV match? Also horizontal armor model of a Kronshdtadt is similar to New York.

Donskoi / Hindenburg  can only be citadeled if the the bombs land on top of the turrets.
Where do you see a Cleveland on that list?

FDG has a sizable "weak spot" amid ship, where the deck is 50mm and the citadel roof is less then 150mm.

You are welcome to load up training room and test / verify ship your self with AP divebombers.

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