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Cereberus99

I need to rant (Tier difference rant/new bote rant)

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So I'm sure I will get tons of flak about this but I NEED to get this off my chest. Here's the scene (I'm sure many of you will be able to attest to having gone through the same thing and may share my frustration) I recently researched a new T8 boat (Hipper). The captain is undergoing retraining. I can't afford to use doubloons to retrain him automatically so I have to grind him a bit. I don't have the boat exp to research the modules so the boat is stock and seeing as I don't have many credits, I can't buy all the upgrades yet. I also am not familiar with the boat yet so I'm still learning the ins and outs. THE PROBLEM IS that out of 4 games, all have been T10 matches. 4. 4 out of 4. My last game, I JUUUUUST started the match, started to get into position when I got spotted by who knows what (no capt skills mean I can't even tell if someone's pointing at me or be more stealthy) and the Yammy across the map takes 4/5 of health then the next salvo two seconds later from who knows where finishes the job. Costs me credits and it feels like a slap in the face. Something similar occurred in the other 3 games. It's just not fun, WG. I try not to complain but geez... Can we do away with T2 diff in MM already? At worst, make T1 diff for the first 2 minutes and default back to T2 if you're not in game. I feel like the annoying kid brother when I'm T8 in a T10 battle.

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Yup, it sucks. There will also be times when a Nurnberg or Myoko goes for the old torpedo turn and that Hipper blaps them like nobody's business.

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7 minutes ago, Cereberus99 said:

So I'm sure I will get tons of flak about this but I NEED to get this off my chest. Here's the scene (I'm sure many of you will be able to attest to having gone through the same thing and may share my frustration) I recently researched a new T8 boat (Hipper). The captain is undergoing retraining. I can't afford to use doubloons to retrain him automatically so I have to grind him a bit. I don't have the boat exp to research the modules so the boat is stock and seeing as I don't have many credits, I can't buy all the upgrades yet. I also am not familiar with the boat yet so I'm still learning the ins and outs. THE PROBLEM IS that out of 4 games, all have been T10 matches. 4. 4 out of 4. My last game, I JUUUUUST started the match, started to get into position when I got spotted by who knows what (no capt skills mean I can't even tell if someone's pointing at me or be more stealthy) and the Yammy across the map takes 4/5 of health then the next salvo two seconds later from who knows where finishes the job. Costs me credits and it feels like a slap in the face. Something similar occurred in the other 3 games. It's just not fun, WG. I try not to complain but geez... Can we do away with T2 diff in MM already? At worst, make T1 diff for the first 2 minutes and default back to T2 if you're not in game. I feel like the annoying kid brother when I'm T8 in a T10 battle.

Put him in your Adm Graf Spee and grind him there to work off the retraining. Then take the fully trained Hipper captain back to Hipper to grind the stock modules. You can even grind the stock modules in co-op (slow but way more forgiving) until you have the Hipper upgraded enough to go back to PvP.

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Welcome to tier 8 MM... where you are bottom tier most of the time.  Hipper is a good ship though, and will be better once you get it upgraded and get your captain trained.  And it is worth the grind to get to Roon and then Hindy.  Until you are able to upgrade and such, you may want to stay a bit back.  Or as another has suggested, run it in Coop or play the captain in a premium ship to earn the XP if you have one.

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I did run the capt in my Graf but then was uptiered in that too so I figured, might as well get a run the new boat to get to know her. You know... you got a new boat, you wanna try her out. Yeah... try...

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15 minutes ago, Cereberus99 said:

So I'm sure I will get tons of flak about this but I NEED to get this off my chest. Here's the scene (I'm sure many of you will be able to attest to having gone through the same thing and may share my frustration) I recently researched a new T8 boat (Hipper). The captain is undergoing retraining. I can't afford to use doubloons to retrain him automatically so I have to grind him a bit. I don't have the boat exp to research the modules so the boat is stock and seeing as I don't have many credits, I can't buy all the upgrades yet. I also am not familiar with the boat yet so I'm still learning the ins and outs. THE PROBLEM IS that out of 4 games, all have been T10 matches. 4. 4 out of 4. My last game, I JUUUUUST started the match, started to get into position when I got spotted by who knows what (no capt skills mean I can't even tell if someone's pointing at me or be more stealthy) and the Yammy across the map takes 4/5 of health then the next salvo two seconds later from who knows where finishes the job. Costs me credits and it feels like a slap in the face. Something similar occurred in the other 3 games. It's just not fun, WG. I try not to complain but geez... Can we do away with T2 diff in MM already? At worst, make T1 diff for the first 2 minutes and default back to T2 if you're not in game. I feel like the annoying kid brother when I'm T8 in a T10 battle.

The Two tier thing isn't exactly a big deal... It's just the huge power gap between tier 9 and 10 which feels bigger than any other tier swap. Honestly some of these ships are just tier 10 ships feel like a tier 11 in terms of the power if that makes any sense... 

This only is the exception when talking about most DDs... Where Tier 9 is actually more preferred than tier 10.

Also some one did some research on it on a different thread, Out of 100 games they only found themselves in a tier 8-10 game over 5#% of the time, 3#%ish in 7-9, and only 1#% of the time as a top tier... Which is a bit depressing. 

Also for people telling you it's the same as a Graf Spee in tier 6-8, It's totally not. lol 


 

Edited by Merlox

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Just now, Cereberus99 said:

I did run the capt in my Graf but then was uptiered in that too so I figured, might as well get a run the new boat to get to know her. You know... you got a new boat, you wanna try her out. Yeah... try...

Run the AGS in co-op when you get frustrated by PvP. It will be slower, but you can do it. Especially if we get other +100%/+200% days and you use some flags and camo, as you can get a lot of XP in co-op on those days.

 

YXW492S.jpg

e1tXo7b.jpg

 

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Just now, Merlox said:

The Two tier thing isn't exactly a big deal... It's just the huge power gap between tier 9 and 10 which feels bigger than any other tier swap. Honestly some of these ships are just tier 10 ships feel like a tier 11 in terms of the power if that makes any sense... 

This only is the exception when talking about most DDs... Where Tier 9 is actually more preferred than tier 10.

Also some one did some research on it on a different thread, Out of 100 games they only found themselves in a tier 8-10 game over 5#% of the time, 3#%ish in 7-9, and only 1#% of the time as a top tier... Which is a bit depressing. 

Yeah... someone said in chat once that T9 is a paywall. After doing the math, I tend to agree. On paper at least, the chappy does more DPM than the Don. That's just weird. My avg in the chap is around 55k whereas my Don is less than that. I'm still getting to know her so I'm slowly getting better. But why is the DPM lower than in the chappy? Am I missing something?

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17 minutes ago, Cereberus99 said:

So I'm sure I will get tons of flak about this but I NEED to get this off my chest. Here's the scene (I'm sure many of you will be able to attest to having gone through the same thing and may share my frustration) I recently researched a new T8 boat (Hipper). The captain is undergoing retraining. I can't afford to use doubloons to retrain him automatically so I have to grind him a bit. I don't have the boat exp to research the modules so the boat is stock and seeing as I don't have many credits, I can't buy all the upgrades yet. I also am not familiar with the boat yet so I'm still learning the ins and outs. THE PROBLEM IS that out of 4 games, all have been T10 matches. 4. 4 out of 4. My last game, I JUUUUUST started the match, started to get into position when I got spotted by who knows what (no capt skills mean I can't even tell if someone's pointing at me or be more stealthy) and the Yammy across the map takes 4/5 of health then the next salvo two seconds later from who knows where finishes the job. Costs me credits and it feels like a slap in the face. Something similar occurred in the other 3 games. It's just not fun, WG. I try not to complain but geez... Can we do away with T2 diff in MM already? At worst, make T1 diff for the first 2 minutes and default back to T2 if you're not in game. I feel like the annoying kid brother when I'm T8 in a T10 battle.

This is why you don't go up the tiers to fast. If your new to the game there is nothing wrong with keeping a ship and earning credits and gaining experience in it. There is nothing that says you must go to the next ship line just because you have unlocked it. If you don't have a premium ship to train captains then you can't avoid playing it downgraded while he retains but you can take steps to ease moving to the next ship. Save up free xp and use your free xp to unlock modules so that you don't have to run a stock ship. 

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1 minute ago, Kizarvexis said:

Run the AGS in co-op when you get frustrated by PvP. It will be slower, but you can do it. Especially if we get other +100%/+200% days and you use some flags and camo, as you can get a lot of XP in co-op on those days.

 

YXW492S.jpg

e1tXo7b.jpg

 

I never tend to think about coop but with what's been going on lately, I think I need to do the shakedowns on the new boats in a less "painful" environment :/

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Nevermind I see your not new and just groping about MM. 

 

I do support them changing the MM, it should go back to how it was before. It use to be alot better. 

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2 minutes ago, Slumlord_Cheeto said:

This is why you don't go up the tiers to fast. If your new to the game there is nothing wrong with keeping a ship and earning credits and gaining experience in it. There is nothing that says you must go to the next ship line just because you have unlocked it. If you don't have a premium ship to train captains then you can't avoid playing it downgraded while he retains but you can take steps to ease moving to the next ship. Save up free xp and use your free xp to unlock modules so that you don't have to run a stock ship. 

I agree. However, if anything, I fall into the opposite category. I have 62 boats, over 4000 games and not one T10. I'm "OK" with an avg win rate of 51%. I take my time with my boats and the lines. I am very familiar with T8 and what they have to go through. But I do agree with you about those that grind one line and one boat type only.

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44 minutes ago, Cereberus99 said:

So I'm sure I will get tons of flak about this but I NEED to get this off my chest. Here's the scene (I'm sure many of you will be able to attest to having gone through the same thing and may share my frustration) I recently researched a new T8 boat (Hipper). The captain is undergoing retraining. I can't afford to use doubloons to retrain him automatically so I have to grind him a bit. I don't have the boat exp to research the modules so the boat is stock and seeing as I don't have many credits, I can't buy all the upgrades yet. I also am not familiar with the boat yet so I'm still learning the ins and outs. THE PROBLEM IS that out of 4 games, all have been T10 matches. 4. 4 out of 4. My last game, I JUUUUUST started the match, started to get into position when I got spotted by who knows what (no capt skills mean I can't even tell if someone's pointing at me or be more stealthy) and the Yammy across the map takes 4/5 of health then the next salvo two seconds later from who knows where finishes the job. Costs me credits and it feels like a slap in the face. Something similar occurred in the other 3 games. It's just not fun, WG. I try not to complain but geez... Can we do away with T2 diff in MM already? At worst, make T1 diff for the first 2 minutes and default back to T2 if you're not in game. I feel like the annoying kid brother when I'm T8 in a T10 battle.

Another option that I haven't seen mentioned is to hang back for a bit, let your teammates who are Tier X, or trained and upgraded take the lead until the match has developed a bit and you can contribute without being the sole focus of ships you don't know are there.

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I'm about the same as you:

6 minutes ago, Cereberus99 said:

I have 62 boats, over 4000 games and not one T10. I'm "OK" with an avg win rate of 51%.

About 60 boats, 3000 games, ~51% WR and no Tier 10s.

Co-op and/or Premium Ships are my friend.

I keep a chart that shows all my new ships and what I still need to do on them before they are competitive: XP to retrain Commander, XP to unlock modules, credits to buy modules and updates. Every day I play each ship that needs XP in Co-op to get the First Win bonus (without that the earnings in co-op are just too low). And to 'warm up.' After that I play my upgraded ships in Randoms for more credits and for some good clean ship-wrecking fun. If available I'll play some games in Operations with Premium ships to retrain commanders. Sims in Dynamo for the win!

By keeping track and having a system I'm always playing a bunch of different fun games and I'm always making progress on a bunch of ships (and the missions/challenges/events). I always have ships that feel productive to play at different Tiers and in different Game Modes. And I get my new ships upgraded without too much tedium.

Maybe something like this can eliminate some frustration.

 

 

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Do you have 19 pt captains? If not I suggest you work on as many as possible. Why?
Because with 19 pt captains you get free captain XP. The best way to move a captain is to use the 200k credits for partial training to new ship.
Next, go to your captain skills page. You can complete the training for about 12k free captain XP. This is what I do. 

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18 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

Another option that I haven't seen mentioned is to hang back for a bit, let your teammates who are Tier X, or trained and upgraded take the lead until the match has developed a bit and you can contribute without being the sole focus of ships you don't know are there.

I was about to say that. In addition, just like you save free XP to upgrade stock ships, save your bonus XP signals and camo for stock ships as well.

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5 minutes ago, STINKWEED_ said:

Do you have 19 pt captains? If not I suggest you work on as many as possible. Why?
Because with 19 pt captains you get free captain XP. The best way to move a captain is to use the 200k credits for partial training to new ship.
Next, go to your captain skills page. You can complete the training for about 12k free captain XP. This is what I do. 

Another good tip. Before I got a 19-pointer, I was retraining with dubs after 10-12 points. (specifically to avoid the OP's dilemma)Now I can retrain for no money, and spend the money on premium instead.

Edited by Skpstr

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Just now, Skpstr said:

I was about to say that. In addition, just like you save free XP to upgrade stock ships, save your bonus XP signals and camo for stock ships as well.

I do try to hang back but it's been unforgiving as I get spotted from the moon due to missing upgrades and cap skills that aren't in effect yet. As for the free XP, saving it for one of dem fancy premiums.

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1 minute ago, Skpstr said:

Another good tip. Before I got a 19-pointer, I was retraining with dubs after 10-12 points. (specifically to avoid the OP's dilemma)Now I can retrain for no money, and spend the money on premium instead.

If there's one tip most people should follow is captain points. Instead of playing 50 different ships all the time, play your favorite 2-3 several battles every day to get 19 pt captains.
 

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Wait till you get a game where you can full 1 side torp salvo into the Yamy, then turn and lunch the other side full torp, ending with the Yamy sunk. Then, you can help the team with rain fire on other high tier bb ......

End battle result will net you lots of ka-ching

 

But if the situation so dry, you should try out in Co-Op first. If you jump in random, with stock config, and not so many upgrades; so grow some balls and grow up. Why not save you trouble of the rant, play in Co Op get the grind over and some credits to upgrade your ship first.

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If there's one tip most people should follow is captain points. Instead of playing 50 different ships all the time, play your favorite 2-3 several battles every day to get 19 pt captains.
19 POINT CAPTAINS CREATE MORE 19 PT CAPTAINS!!!!
The more 19 pt captains you have on ships you play often the quicker you build a large supply of free captain points to help finish train the final two points that are the longest to complete. At some point you will notice that you have 200k ++ free captain pts at any one time. Just be smart and don't waste them on topping off a 5 point captain to 6 points. use them for topping off the last two points, 2) re-training a captain on a new ship ( use 200k credits for partial training) and then approx. 12k free captain pts to complete. 

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12 minutes ago, Cereberus99 said:

I do try to hang back but it's been unforgiving as I get spotted from the moon due to missing upgrades and cap skills that aren't in effect yet. As for the free XP, saving it for one of dem fancy premiums.

I'm pretty sure you can use free XP the same as elite commander XP to retrain. In your case, it might be worth spending 200k credits and then using free XP to retrain.

The modules you can do without for now, just grind them using any bonus XP gear you have. A stock ship isn't usually as much of a hindrance as a gimped captain IMO. TBH, I usually only free XP the hull upgrade anyway, and grind the rest.

And use whatever you can to get a 19-point captain ASAP. Once you have even one, you'll never have this issue again.

Edited by Skpstr
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I want to thank those that responded with helpful suggestions. I am taking note and applying them. I needed to vent because honestly, I am capable in a T8 vs T10 (Chappy, Biz, Baltimore, etc). But when it's 9 T10s, 2 T9s and you, it gets frustrating.

For the 19 point capt. That's my Don captain I'm grinding (L15 right now). T9 is expensive tho and I'm not as good with the Don as I was with the Chappy so I avoid playing her if I'm having a bad day.

As I said in another comment, I didn't think of the co-op game as a ground for retraining the captain so I gave that a go and man... that was game soothed my rattled nerves.

Didn't know you could retrain using Elite cap XP so yup, did that. Will definitely be doing that on the higher tier boats.

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