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CalamitousIntent

New Garbage A.I. Round 3

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Dear WarGaming and anyone who agrees (or disagrees).

In Prior posts, I've listed my many reasons for not liking the new CO-OP AI.
those can be argued about endlessly. When it's all said and done, there is only one point that matters and that is; "Am I having more fun".

The answer is no. It's not more fun. It's not more rewarding and it is nolonger providing the entertainment required to draw my time from other leisure activities.
It's not like I'm capable of going cold turkey, but now playing these horrible bots is just painful.
case in point;. I just got done playing my new russian destroyer (izzy). I had one of the best games I've had in it yet. I knocked off 4 bots. got a good piece of of a bb and was sunk.
in most cases I would consider that a very good match, but it wasn't. i had to chase down and deal with all sort of weird Ai that just made it NOT FUN.

COOP is supposed to be fast, carefree and yolo-ey. That's why the rewards are decreased so substantially. Thats why the groups are smaller.
I'm going to be logging in every day like normal but just long enough to see if the AI has been restored or at least tweaked enough so the game doesn't feel like such a burden.
in a lot of ways you've made the bots very good, but it's the kind of play style I would expect from human players and if I wanted to play against humans, I would chose random.

Thank you for the last fun year I've had on this game, but If I can't get any more fun out of it, I'm just going to move on.

Sincerely,
CalamitousIntent.

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Step back and breath, they are testing possible AI changes. Co-op is supposed to be a learning environment and nothing is learned beyond ship controls with the current AI. Expect that eventually the AI will be somewhat "smarter" than the suicidally stupid bots we have now, matches will still be fast for experienced players but against an AI that new players will be able to learn from.

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I don't seem to be having any problems with he AI. Losing 4 out of 100 battles is not bad. The Co op mode was made for testing ships and training originally and is not very challenging for either of those two purposes. It is however a very easy place to complete some missions.

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22 minutes ago, CalamitousIntent said:

Dear WarGaming and anyone who agrees (or disagrees).

In Prior posts, I've listed my many reasons for not liking the new CO-OP AI.
those can be argued about endlessly. When it's all said and done, there is only one point that matters and that is; "Am I having more fun".

The answer is no. It's not more fun. It's not more rewarding and it is nolonger providing the entertainment required to draw my time from other leisure activities.
It's not like I'm capable of going cold turkey, but now playing these horrible bots is just painful.
case in point;. I just got done playing my new russian destroyer (izzy). I had one of the best games I've had in it yet. I knocked off 4 bots. got a good piece of of a bb and was sunk.
in most cases I would consider that a very good match, but it wasn't. i had to chase down and deal with all sort of weird Ai that just made it NOT FUN.

COOP is supposed to be fast, carefree and yolo-ey. That's why the rewards are decreased so substantially. Thats why the groups are smaller.
I'm going to be logging in every day like normal but just long enough to see if the AI has been restored or at least tweaked enough so the game doesn't feel like such a burden.
in a lot of ways you've made the bots very good, but it's the kind of play style I would expect from human players and if I wanted to play against humans, I would chose random.

Thank you for the last fun year I've had on this game, but If I can't get any more fun out of it, I'm just going to move on.

Sincerely,
CalamitousIntent.

Sez who?  Really, who are you to say that coop should be those things?  To me, coop is essentially a mode that doesn't have the pressure of playing against players.  I don't need the bots to be as good as live players.  But at the same time, I do NOT want bots that are so freaking mindless that they do the EXACT SAME THING every single freaking battle!  I want bots to be more unpredictable and a little more challenging.  It's boring as all hell when bots just charge directly across the map at you.  I like that the bots are less predictable now.  It's a lot more enjoyable when coop battles are a freaking carbon copy of each other time after time after bloody time.

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3 minutes ago, mohawkdriver said:

I don't see the problem.  What's the problem?

 

He wants the bots to yolo in, have terrible aim, and not dodge torps.

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Just now, bfk_ferlyfe said:

He wants the bots to yolo in, have terrible aim, and not dodge torps.

I see.  Well, I think we all prefer a bit of a challenge in Co-Op.  I know I do.

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I respect your opinions and rebuttals. But I don't see if any of you addressed my key point. 
Let me ask you this.
IS IT MORE FUN?

If you think it is more fun then good on you. Share you dissent. If I'm wrong I'm wrong.
if you think it is less fun, then good on you. Share your agreement.

It's not like my opinion is an unpopular one. Many of the people who have engaged me on prior posts share my key sentiment. Each has there own perspective of why they feel it is less fun. Some enjoy it more. i respect that. But i don't think this is the common sentiment of pure CoOp players.

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6 minutes ago, CalamitousIntent said:

I respect your opinions and rebuttals. But I don't see if any of you addressed my key point. 
Let me ask you this.
IS IT MORE FUN?

If you think it is more fun then good on you. Share you dissent. If I'm wrong I'm wrong.
if you think it is less fun, then good on you. Share your agreement.

It's not like my opinion is an unpopular one. Many of the people who have engaged me on prior posts share my key sentiment. Each has there own perspective of why they feel it is less fun. Some enjoy it more. i respect that. But i don't think this is the common sentiment of pure CoOp players.

Of course it's more fun (for the bots to be less predictable), for crying out loud.  Playing at bots that are so god damned mindless that they do the exact same freaking thing battle after battle after battle is NOT fun!  Not at all!!!  It's boring!!!

 

Edited by Crucis

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6 minutes ago, CalamitousIntent said:

If you think it is more fun then good on you. Share you dissent. If I'm wrong I'm wrong.
if you think it is less fun, then good on you. Share your agreement.

Fun factor is the same, it's just a smidge more challenging. The real challenge is winning with all bots on your team or all potatoes. Most battles still end fast. It really isn't much different for me anyway. I am not a PVE main (unless you count scenarios), which is just Co op with better rewards.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Of course it's more fun (for the bots to be less predictable), for crying out loud.  Playing at bots that are so god damned mindless that they do the exact same freaking thing battle after battle after battle is NOT fun!  Not at all!!!  It's boring!!!

 

if that that's what makes it more fun, then why are you not playing Random instead of CoOp?

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Just now, neptunes_wrath said:

moY7n15.jpg

I was going to do that but I thought it would be too condescending.

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14 minutes ago, CalamitousIntent said:

I respect your opinions and rebuttals. But I don't see if any of you addressed my key point. 
Let me ask you this.
IS IT MORE FUN?

Apologies ahead of time if I offend anyone: personally I never found co-op fun.  I played most co-op games when I first started this game to get a feeling for how to lead with my aim, how to use torps, etc.  I also played co-op for specific missions (win 15 times, win 1 time and kill a DD, etc).  It was always extremely dull and unchallenging in any way.

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This is a gross mischaracterization of my argument.

It hasn't gotten harder. It's gotten more tedious. My win rate is the same. My survival rate is the same.
I don't like having to chase down bots. I don't like games taking 150% to 200% the normal amount of time.
I enjoy the aggressive play style, the quick matches. Parts of it have gotten harder ESPECIALLY for my destroyers but that isn't my beef.

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3 minutes ago, CalamitousIntent said:

if that that's what makes it more fun, then why are you not playing Random instead of CoOp?

:Smile_facepalm:

Because sometimes I just want to.

Also, because of the current structure of the 2 daily missions, you can only get your XP counted in wins (for 4 out of the 6 tasks).  So I prefer doing them in coop where the chances of winning are much higher.  I don't want to waste my time grinding those tasks only to have 50% of my battles count towards them, or worse on a bad day.  

If you want bots to be so brain dead, why don't YOU just go into a training room?  I'm sure that the bots will be as brain dead as you could possibly want!

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Just now, neptunes_wrath said:

DVnCuaE.gif

I think I am just having one of those nice days, it will pass.

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50 minutes ago, CalamitousIntent said:

Dear WarGaming and anyone who agrees (or disagrees).

In Prior posts, I've listed my many reasons for not liking the new CO-OP AI.
those can be argued about endlessly. When it's all said and done, there is only one point that matters and that is; "Am I having more fun".

The answer is no. It's not more fun. It's not more rewarding and it is nolonger providing the entertainment required to draw my time from other leisure activities.
It's not like I'm capable of going cold turkey, but now playing these horrible bots is just painful.
case in point;. I just got done playing my new russian destroyer (izzy). I had one of the best games I've had in it yet. I knocked off 4 bots. got a good piece of of a bb and was sunk.
in most cases I would consider that a very good match, but it wasn't. i had to chase down and deal with all sort of weird Ai that just made it NOT FUN.

COOP is supposed to be fast, carefree and yolo-ey. That's why the rewards are decreased so substantially. Thats why the groups are smaller.
I'm going to be logging in every day like normal but just long enough to see if the AI has been restored or at least tweaked enough so the game doesn't feel like such a burden.
in a lot of ways you've made the bots very good, but it's the kind of play style I would expect from human players and if I wanted to play against humans, I would chose random.

Thank you for the last fun year I've had on this game, but If I can't get any more fun out of it, I'm just going to move on.

Sincerely,
CalamitousIntent.

I am extremely curious why you want AI that is stupid? What purpose does it serve you or anyone else to steam around shooting ships that are no danger to you whatsoever? What is fun about it?

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My battle count is majority Co-op because I find Randoms too often toxic, and dominated by a mind-numbing and frustrating meta centered around manipulating the vision system.

I want the bots to be competent, but also less "cheaty" (see discussion in other threads in this series between AdmiralThunder, myself, and others on observed apparent "cheats" on the part of bots, such as magic torp beats, heisenburg torps, "lucky drift" on long-range shots, apparent precognition and clairvoyance, etc).  I want them to not charge in blindly, but also not play the silly kiting / run-away game that they've sometimes been playing the last several weeks.  I want WG to find a balance between YOLO and chicken-crap scared.

I want Co-op to be fun,  and varied, without being like Randoms.

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter
Typo.
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12 minutes ago, bfk_ferlyfe said:

He wants the bots to yolo in, have terrible aim, and not dodge torps.

Actually the bots, stupid or smart dodge torpedoes far better than any human. Their spidey sense and reacting as soon as torpedoes are launched is a bit much particularly when it is from an un-spotted ship.

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23 hours ago, CalamitousIntent said:

This is a gross mischaracterization of my argument.

It hasn't gotten harder. It's gotten more tedious. My win rate is the same. My survival rate is the same.
I don't like having to chase down bots. I don't like games taking 150% to 200% the normal amount of time.
I enjoy the aggressive play style, the quick matches. Parts of it have gotten harder ESPECIALLY for my destroyers but that isn't my beef.

You're weird.  How can playing coop against braindead bots that do the exact same thing battle after mind-numbing battle be less tedious than playing against bots that are less predictable?  You really need to reassess what you find "tedious", because your definition of what's tedious seems extremely bizarre to me.

Edited by Crucis
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8 minutes ago, CalamitousIntent said:

My win rate is the same. My survival rate is the same.

Co-op power! :fish_haloween:

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Just now, BrushWolf said:

Actually the bots, stupid or smart dodge torpedoes far better than any human. Their spidey sense and reacting as soon as torpedoes are launched is a bit much particularly when it is from an un-spotted ship.

Not spotted, target lock turned off and aiming manually, and the bot STILL seems to sense the torpedoes or gunfire the moment you hit the button.

Ugh.

 

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Just now, Crucis said:

You're weird.  How can playing coop against  braindead bots that do the exact same thing battle after mind-numbing battle be less tedious than playing against bots that are less predictable?  You really need to reassess what you find "tedious", because your definition of what's tedious seems extremely bizarre to me.

He needs to change because you find it bizarre?

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