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supercrewjohn

DD Stealth

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Good day Fellow players, 

I have a question about how the Dd stealth is implemented.   The average DD that appears in this game are very similar to size and dimension to the USS Faragut. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Farragut_(DD-348)  

 

Im not sure if most players or WG understand that these DD, are not some little PT boat.  The Faragut is 341 FT 3 in  i.e 110 Meters or the size of a football field.  These are big ships. Obviously not the size of a battleship or an aircraft carrier, but these are also not the size of a digny either.  A 40 ft offshore boat can be spotted from the water level at 3k    On the water a 340 ft ship doesnt  just disappear at 6 Km.  WG, that is called a submarine or PT boat, that are small, or can submerge.     

My issue is that the physics just seem broken, and as a player that plays primarily Cruisers or BB's or CV's  this just seems like there is a huge disconnect to reality.  

an you please explain the physics here as they do not seem to make sense. 

 

Cheers, and keep up the work on the enhancements to the game

 

   


 

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All the BBs and CVs would spot each other right at the beginning then.

...The cruisers too on most maps.

Enjoy your 30 seconds to target shooting matches from across the map. The reason OTL didn't use the WASD hacks we do for dodging shells is because ramming an ally is often fatal, and because coordination is almost impossible.

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You got to remember time and distance are truncated for the game. Where not dealing with actual size here.

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Oh certainly. I realize distances are compressed.   but.. the spotting is still totally broken     Balance or no balance.   a DD would not be invisible at 2-3 K   

 

Also, every BB 1935 vintage or higher had Radar!!   Here that WG   That means Colorado's on up.  

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Detection values in game are based off the height of the ship's range finder (that or mast, I don't rightly recall).  Past that we can do some math to show how this works.  The view at the horizon is d \approx 3.57\sqrt{h} \,,  where h is meters above sea level. So if we take a ship like Farragut with a range finder at 45 ft high (13.716m) and we plug this into the equation, we get 13.22 km.  This just under double the base concealment of 7.56km.  Scharnhorst is similar, having a rangefinder at a little above 90 feet, or double that of farragut.  It should have about double the base concealment, and it does, at 15.66.  This seems to hold true with other ships as well.  As such, we can determine that spotting range is loosely (because balance) based around horizon detection of a ship's rangefinder, divided by 2ish.  Since we know distance is compressed by a factor of around two in game, this works.  Of course, an enemy ship wouldn't be looking at you from sealevel, so...

Edited by thegamefilmguruman

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you DO realize that in real life the distances that are compared to the game are FAR greater than this actual game and it is more compact then it is in REAL LIFE... after all this is a game... and after all those battles I wonder why, just now, you seem to have a misunderstanding of the basics of detect-ability in this ARCADE GAME...


Just sayin brah..

Edited by neptunes_wrath

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2 minutes ago, neptunes_wrath said:

you DO realize that in real life the distances that are compared to the game are FAR greater than this actual game and it is more compact then it is in REAL LIFE... after all this is a game... and after all those battles I wonder why now you seem to have a misunderstanding of the basics of detect-ability in this ARCADE GAME...


Just sayin brah..

Roughly double.  This results in the ships being twice as big in the game (or  the distances being half as big, take your pick).  Things also move about roughly 3x as fast (it's 2.9ish).

Edited by thegamefilmguruman

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3 minutes ago, thegamefilmguruman said:

Roughly double.  This results in the ships being twice as big in the game (or  the distances being half as big, take your pick).

indeed... all told I never really seem to have an issue with it being  not "LIFE LIKE" when I log into a game.. I just learn and compensate for whatever balance they throw at us...
I mean yes I MISS INVISIFRE like crazy,m especially in my BLy... but hey   we cannot always have the best little invisible  ships ever now can we....:Smile_teethhappy:

 

we need to be SEEN....

Edited by neptunes_wrath

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Spotting and stealth are indeed one of the most reality divorced things in the game, and that's saying something when, for example, you can stop all flooding from several torp hits so fast it doesn't affect anything, but only once a minute or so.

Still, WG needed to find a way to balance DDs so they are not just trash in a game where national manufacturing constraints are not a factor, so BBs are much more common.

This is the solution they came up with, and I think it's a pretty good one. It firmly cements DDs as the high risk, but highest skill ceiling option, without making them too overpowered.

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3 minutes ago, Baskerville77 said:

Spotting and stealth are indeed one of the most reality divorced things in the game, and that's saying something when, for example, you can stop all flooding from several torp hits so fast it doesn't affect anything, but only once a minute or so.

Still, WG needed to find a way to balance DDs so they are not just trash in a game where national manufacturing constraints are not a factor, so BBs are much more common.

This is the solution they came up with, and I think it's a pretty good one. It firmly cements DDs as the high risk, but highest skill ceiling option, without making them too overpowered.

Can you imagine if we had accurate DD to capital ship ratios?  It would look like low tier when a new DD line launches.

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42 minutes ago, supercrewjohn said:

a DD would not be invisible at 2-3 K  

Nor are they in this game, across open water. Only if there are islands or smoke involved.

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1 hour ago, supercrewjohn said:

Oh certainly. I realize distances are compressed.   but.. the spotting is still totally broken     Balance or no balance.   a DD would not be invisible at 2-3 K   

Also, every BB 1935 vintage or higher had Radar!!   Here that WG   That means Colorado's on up.  

This GAME has absolutely nothing to do with REALITY which is why it's called a GAME and not a REAL LIFE SIMULATION.

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The other side of this is, on the open ocean, destroyer sized contacts frequently do disappear at 5k ranges. Mist, haze, sea state.

It's why I say people are wrong about OWSF being unrealistic. IT is. But I digress.

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2 hours ago, supercrewjohn said:

Good day Fellow players, 

I have a question about how the Dd stealth is implemented.   The average DD that appears in this game are very similar to size and dimension to the USS Faragut. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Farragut_(DD-348)  

 

Im not sure if most players or WG understand that these DD, are not some little PT boat.  The Faragut is 341 FT 3 in  i.e 110 Meters or the size of a football field.  These are big ships. Obviously not the size of a battleship or an aircraft carrier, but these are also not the size of a digny either.  A 40 ft offshore boat can be spotted from the water level at 3k    On the water a 340 ft ship doesnt  just disappear at 6 Km.  WG, that is called a submarine or PT boat, that are small, or can submerge.     

My issue is that the physics just seem broken, and as a player that plays primarily Cruisers or BB's or CV's  this just seems like there is a huge disconnect to reality.  

an you please explain the physics here as they do not seem to make sense. 

 

Cheers, and keep up the work on the enhancements to the game

 

   


 

In other words, the BB driver got torped, and never saw the DD that did it.

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well of course it is a game and not a simulation.  However, if they are going to use simulations of real ship etc then there should be some basis in reality.  Otherwise we should just have USS Big Banana or HMS IDK or IJN Invisible  or absurd stuff like that and make it complete fantasy.. 

It seems to me, that WG has presented this game as semi-historical in that the ships are supposed to be close to real capability.   

 

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4 minutes ago, supercrewjohn said:

well of course it is a game and not a simulation.  However, if they are going to use simulations of real ship etc then there should be some basis in reality.  Otherwise we should just have USS Big Banana or HMS IDK or IJN Invisible  or absurd stuff like that and make it complete fantasy.. 

It seems to me, that WG has presented this game as semi-historical in that the ships are supposed to be close to real capability.   

 

No...just close to real graphically...impossible to have close to real in a 1st person shooter game in regards to naval warfare (moving objects aiming at other moving objects on a globe require much more calculations than just aim & shoot).

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2 hours ago, supercrewjohn said:

Good day Fellow players, 

I have a question about how the Dd stealth is implemented.   The average DD that appears in this game are very similar to size and dimension to the USS Faragut. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Farragut_(DD-348)  

Im not sure if most players or WG understand that these DD, are not some little PT boat.  The Faragut is 341 FT 3 in  i.e 110 Meters or the size of a football field.  These are big ships. Obviously not the size of a battleship or an aircraft carrier, but these are also not the size of a digny either.  A 40 ft offshore boat can be spotted from the water level at 3k    On the water a 340 ft ship doesnt  just disappear at 6 Km.  WG, that is called a submarine or PT boat, that are small, or can submerge.     

My issue is that the physics just seem broken, and as a player that plays primarily Cruisers or BB's or CV's  this just seems like there is a huge disconnect to reality.  

an you please explain the physics here as they do not seem to make sense. 

Cheers, and keep up the work on the enhancements to the game

 

It doesn't matter how long the ship is.  What matters is how TALL the ship is.  You could have a thousand foot long ship, but if it was only 10 feet "tall", its concealment would be quite low, because there'd be nothing to see until you got rather close to it.

OTOH, a 1000 foot long, 10 foot tall ship would probably be much more detectable from the air than your average DD, because a) it would have a much larger hull as seen from above, and b) the wake from its engines would be much larger than for an average DD.

 

 

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Well if you want a simulator then how about 2-5% hit ratio and limited number of shell. No torpedo reloads for non-IJN ships and only 1 reload for them?  

It would be a whole different game and probably lose 75% of it's user base.

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On 9/24/2018 at 2:04 PM, supercrewjohn said:

Oh certainly. I realize distances are compressed.   but.. the spotting is still totally broken     Balance or no balance.   a DD would not be invisible at 2-3 K   

 

Also, every BB 1935 vintage or higher had Radar!!   Here that WG   That means Colorado's on up.  

Nor would the weather always be clear. Haze is common in the tropics as is haze from smoke in a heavy action. What about fog? Then you got squalls that all but block vision, so consider the spotting ranges to be a mean of all conditions that you would find.  Remember this is a very fun shooter game. If you try to reason out the game based on  historical accuracy you will have no fun and should be playing another. I am a life long student of naval war and know it inside and out. I am not here for that reason. I just want to  have fun and blow some ships up. 

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