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Cruiser Concealment

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For a couple of months now I've been tracking the concealment ratings of cruisers on my team and the opposing team. It seems that most people, especially with USN cruisers, do not go for full concealment builds.

For example, my Cleveland has a full concealment build, using Concealment System Modification 1, the captain skill Concealment Expert, and I always use camouflage.  This gives her a concealment rating of 73, which translates to a detection range of 9.1 kilometers.  I've seen well over a hundred other Clevelands either on my team or the opposing team and not a single one had a concealment rating higher than 66.

I would think that you would want to use a full concealment build on cruisers, especially USN cruisers given their relatively shorter gun ranges at their respective tiers.  I'm curious as to why people aren't going for full concealment builds, and if not what kind of builds are you using?

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Don't pay much attention to the ratings in general, they can be quite misleading. As for the rating you see, I think it's without Commander skill or Equipment into play.

Also many people don't have a 14 Commander yet to get both IFHE and CE, so they prefer the guaranteed damage of IFHE at the expense of a bit of stealth.

Edited by warheart1992

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Many players don't know how to maximize their builds. It really is that simple or some don't have a high point captain.

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3 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Many players don't know how to maximize their builds. It really is that simple or some don't have a high point captain.

Well, I did figure with CLs that people didn't have at least 14 point captains in order to get IFHE and CE.  I can understand players choosing IFHE first once they have a 10 point captain, but I find it hard to believe so many players don't have 14 point captains.  I'm not exaggerating when I say I've seen at least 100 other Clevelands that have a lower concealment rating than mine; as a matter of fact, I've never seen one with a rating has good as mine.

I'll also use the Des Moines as an example since you don't need IFHE on her.  Full concealment build gives her a rating of 63 which translates to a detection range of 10.6km.  I've yet to see any other Des Moines with concealment as good as mine.  I guess everybody is getting AFT first but I find it hard to believe that nobody else has at least a 14 point captain.  Maybe they're getting FP or Manual Fire Control for AA I suppose.

Not that I'm complaining, it gives me an advantage on a regular basis lol.

 

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23 minutes ago, Wittman73 said:

For a couple of months now I've been tracking the concealment ratings of cruisers on my team and the opposing team. It seems that most people, especially with USN cruisers, do not go for full concealment builds.

For example, my Cleveland has a full concealment build, using Concealment System Modification 1, the captain skill Concealment Expert, and I always use camouflage.  This gives her a concealment rating of 73, which translates to a detection range of 9.1 kilometers.  I've seen well over a hundred other Clevelands either on my team or the opposing team and not a single one had a concealment rating higher than 66.

I would think that you would want to use a full concealment build on cruisers, especially USN cruisers given their relatively shorter gun ranges at their respective tiers.  I'm curious as to why people aren't going for full concealment builds, and if not what kind of builds are you using?

Might be people with newb captains.

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8 minutes ago, Wittman73 said:

Well, I did figure with CLs that people didn't have at least 14 point captains in order to get IFHE and CE.  I can understand players choosing IFHE first once they have a 10 point captain, but I find it hard to believe so many players don't have 14 point captains.  I'm not exaggerating when I say I've seen at least 100 other Clevelands that have a lower concealment rating than mine; as a matter of fact, I've never seen one with a rating has good as mine.

I'll also use the Des Moines as an example since you don't need IFHE on her.  Full concealment build gives her a rating of 63 which translates to a detection range of 10.6km.  I've yet to see any other Des Moines with concealment as good as mine.  I guess everybody is getting AFT first but I find it hard to believe that nobody else has at least a 14 point captain.  Maybe they're getting FP or Manual Fire Control for AA I suppose.

Not that I'm complaining, it gives me an advantage on a regular basis lol.

 

Many of the Clevelands are probably from the line split and didn't grind as many battles getting there.

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I always tell people who complain about USN CLs that they need to go full concealment. That results in your radar range exceeding detection range, which is a game changer

Edited by Famous_and_Historical
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1 hour ago, Wittman73 said:

For a couple of months now I've been tracking the concealment ratings of cruisers on my team and the opposing team. It seems that most people, especially with USN cruisers, do not go for full concealment builds.

For example, my Cleveland has a full concealment build, using Concealment System Modification 1, the captain skill Concealment Expert, and I always use camouflage.  This gives her a concealment rating of 73, which translates to a detection range of 9.1 kilometers.  I've seen well over a hundred other Clevelands either on my team or the opposing team and not a single one had a concealment rating higher than 66.

I would think that you would want to use a full concealment build on cruisers, especially USN cruisers given their relatively shorter gun ranges at their respective tiers.  I'm curious as to why people aren't going for full concealment builds, and if not what kind of builds are you using?

I have 19 point captain for Cleveland, Atlanta, and Worchester.  I don't run stealth on the captain because I run Basics of Survivability, it makes the fires go out sub 20 sec.  You can let fires burn and be ok.  I also run AFT and Superintendent or BFT. 

After all that there is no room for stealth, plus your firing so much that it does not matter a whole lot.  Yes there are times I wish I went full stealth build but having [edited] is totally worth it.

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Those ratings are misleading. When I play akizuki, sometimes I am rated at higher concealment ratings than ships that outspot me in the game. I don't think those numbers can be trusted.

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Most Cleveland captains are not 14 pointers.

IFHE is required before concealment. 

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4 hours ago, jags_domain said:

I have 19 point captain for Cleveland, Atlanta, and Worchester.  I don't run stealth on the captain because I run Basics of Survivability, it makes the fires go out sub 20 sec.  You can let fires burn and be ok.  I also run AFT and Superintendent or BFT. 

After all that there is no room for stealth, plus your firing so much that it does not matter a whole lot.  Yes there are times I wish I went full stealth build but having [edited] is totally worth it.

If you run full concealment on your Cleveland then your radar range is only 100m shorter than your detection range, which is pretty handy. With Wooster it's even better, your radar range is 400m greater than your detection range so you can radar before you're even detected.

Getting your concealment down to or less than your radar range, plus being able to disengage and go dark more quickly are the main advantages to me.  I have thought about running Basics of Survivability, maybe I'll give that a try.

 

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8 hours ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Most Cleveland captains are not 14 pointers.

IFHE is required before concealment. 

IFHE is far from required before concealment.

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8 hours ago, Wittman73 said:

If you run full concealment on your Cleveland then your radar range is only 100m shorter than your detection range, which is pretty handy. With Wooster it's even better, your radar range is 400m greater than your detection range so you can radar before you're even detected.

Getting your concealment down to or less than your radar range, plus being able to disengage and go dark more quickly are the main advantages to me.  I have thought about running Basics of Survivability, maybe I'll give that a try.

 

 dot run a full stealth builds I run Basics of Survivability because it makes fires go out sub 20 sec.

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3 hours ago, crzyhawk said:

IFHE is far from required before concealment.

With 6 inch shells IFHE is mandatory.  This in not IJN DD with 100mm guns that pen 32 mm armor.  These are superiors shells that don't go any were near that pen without. IFHE.

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19 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

With 6 inch shells IFHE is mandatory.  This in not IJN DD with 100mm guns that pen 32 mm armor.  These are superiors shells that don't go any were near that pen without. IFHE.

I think @crzyhawk was being literal as far as IFHE not being required or mandatory.  You don't HAVE to have it in order to play a CL.  You're just not going to do as much damage unless you start a LOT of fires.  I actually played Dallas and Helena without IFHE because I went with CE first. Does it make quite a bit difference?  Absolutley.  Do you have to have IFHE to play the ship?  No.

I certainly wouldn't argue against taking IFHE first if you only have a 10 point captain.

 

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5 hours ago, crzyhawk said:

IFHE is far from required before concealment.

So you are going to rely solely on fire damage on tier 10 battleships that will shatter ALL your shells AND have a built in 50% reduction in fire chance?

To get any performance from 152mm & 155mm cruiser guns IFHE is mandatory, unless it is under the 1/4 pen rule.

Otherwise, 100% of your shells will shatter vs most t 8-10 BB's and a majority of cruisers at t10.

Of course, if you do not want to see 100k+ damage games, pick concealment first.

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On 9/22/2018 at 8:35 AM, jags_domain said:

With 6 inch shells IFHE is mandatory.  This in not IJN DD with 100mm guns that pen 32 mm armor.  These are superiors shells that don't go any were near that pen without. IFHE.

 

On 9/22/2018 at 10:28 AM, dEsTurbed1 said:

So you are going to rely solely on fire damage on tier 10 battleships that will shatter ALL your shells AND have a built in 50% reduction in fire chance?

To get any performance from 152mm & 155mm cruiser guns IFHE is mandatory, unless it is under the 1/4 pen rule.

Otherwise, 100% of your shells will shatter vs most t 8-10 BB's and a majority of cruisers at t10.

Of course, if you do not want to see 100k+ damage games, pick concealment first.

I have a Neuve de Julio on EU, with only a 9 point captain.  It's still pulling 44k damage/game.  I've broken 100k with it, with my top game being 102k.  Nothing about that screams mandatory.  Sure it's nice to have, but it's not mandatory.

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2 hours ago, crzyhawk said:

 

I have a Neuve de Julio on EU, with only a 9 point captain.  It's still pulling 44k damage/game.  I've broken 100k with it, with my top game being 102k.  Nothing about that screams mandatory.  Sure it's nice to have, but it's not mandatory.

I have her too.

Average damage for me: 58k & highest damage 151k. 51% w/r and 1.2 frags.

The 10 point captain had IFHE before CE. Currently 15 points with concealment. 

So I guess it isn't mandatory,  but it sure does help to improve a 48% potato like me.

Edit: 43 battles on the ship.

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Newb here, playing Soviet cruisers. I'm about to hit 10 points, so the IFHE versus CE issue is super relevant to me. IFHE is tempting, but a 12% reduction to a Buddy's base detect range of 13.4 km would get me down to 11.8, which seems huge. In my limited experience, my bad games are where I do something dumb and get deleted early, so I'm leaning towards CE. But maybe IFHE is needed vs tier 8s with the 152s? 

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what do  we make of the Developers wanting to nerf ALL cruise!  because  DDs players are crying. the BBs losing concealment I care about though not that much . the cruise on the other hand should be able with or with out Radar too  make DDs pay for hunting  BB beyond the limits of their support . im coming to the conclusion that DD players have more support among the CC . I also feel that we as players should note hum among our CCs are in open support of these nerfs and stop supporting their work if they don't learn to be more broad minded . farther more I believe BB players and cruise captains need to put aside our differences in order to make our voices heard . for to long DD captains have yelled over us to get their way . some of us need to ask why they get their way so often and we do not! the answer is simple they band together most of us do not do this.  

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On 9/21/2018 at 3:03 PM, RenamedUser_1001278837 said:

For a couple of months now I've been tracking the concealment ratings of cruisers on my team and the opposing team. It seems that most people, especially with USN cruisers, do not go for full concealment builds.

For example, my Cleveland has a full concealment build, using Concealment System Modification 1, the captain skill Concealment Expert, and I always use camouflage.  This gives her a concealment rating of 73, which translates to a detection range of 9.1 kilometers.  I've seen well over a hundred other Clevelands either on my team or the opposing team and not a single one had a concealment rating higher than 66.

I would think that you would want to use a full concealment build on cruisers, especially USN cruisers given their relatively shorter gun ranges at their respective tiers.  I'm curious as to why people aren't going for full concealment builds, and if not what kind of builds are you using?

I always go for as much concealment on my Cruisers as I can get ..like my DDs

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1 hour ago, Judith_Chase said:

what do  we make of the Developers wanting to nerf ALL cruise!  because  DDs players are crying. the BBs losing concealment I care about though not that much . the cruise on the other hand should be able with or with out Radar too  make DDs pay for hunting  BB beyond the limits of their support . im coming to the conclusion that DD players have more support among the CC . I also feel that we as players should note hum among our CCs are in open support of these nerfs and stop supporting their work if they don't learn to be more broad minded . farther more I believe BB players and cruise captains need to put aside our differences in order to make our voices heard . for to long DD captains have yelled over us to get their way . some of us need to ask why they get their way so often and we do not! the answer is simple they band together most of us do not do this.  

OWSF nerf

Smoke nerf 

radar proliferation

rudder shift upgrades for BBs 

lowest damage and frags

highest skill floor

hydro on capital ships

etc., etc., etc.

oh yeah. DDs sure are getting their way. 

Edited by Thornir

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On 9/24/2018 at 8:18 AM, Whiskey_Rebel said:

Newb here, playing Soviet cruisers. I'm about to hit 10 points, so the IFHE versus CE issue is super relevant to me. IFHE is tempting, but a 12% reduction to a Buddy's base detect range of 13.4 km would get me down to 11.8, which seems huge. In my limited experience, my bad games are where I do something dumb and get deleted early, so I'm leaning towards CE. But maybe IFHE is needed vs tier 8s with the 152s? 

I always go with anything that makes the Cruiser guns hit harder and concealment is paramount especially at higher tiers, I started using concealment early on my Cruisers  V and up, this will translate into being part of your playstyle giving you the ability to go dark if your not in Detection range

in game click on the icon just above mini map this will show ships detection ranges and you can also make it so there visable as line circle ranges if you want

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Referencing the original post regarding lower stealth ratings, could just be the case of people running the double rudder on some ships, vs a full stealth build.

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