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Kochira

Average BB Damage by Tier

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I was poking around with the average damage of BBs and found something interesting. The graph should be fairly self explanatory. Mikasa was added even though she's premium to give some idea where a tier 2 BB would sit.

ARPhMvW.png

Tier 10 BBs to a lot more damage than tier 9 BBs. Its a much higher difference than any other tier. One possibility is its the effects of always being top tier but if that's the case I'd expect to see something similar in tier 9 but all I see there is potential balance issues. Why do you think WG would want tier 10 BBs to do so much more damage?

Data is from here

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10 minutes ago, Kochira said:

I was poking around with the average damage of BBs and found something interesting. The graph should be fairly self explanatory. Mikasa was added even though she's premium to give some idea where a tier 2 BB would sit.

ARPhMvW.png

Tier 10 BBs to a lot more damage than tier 9 BBs. Its a much higher difference than any other tier. One possibility is its the effects of always being top tier but if that's the case I'd expect to see something similar in tier 9 but all I see there is potential balance issues. Why do you think WG would want tier 10 BBs to do so much more damage?

Data is from here

So the matches end faster.

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I do more damage in my t8 than the t9 on this graphics

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I suspect you might see a similar trend for cruisers. Tier IX to X is a massive power jump. Let’s take a look, ship by ship,

Montana: lagging on the graph, but still putting 33% more barrels, 20k more HP and better armor to use

Yamato: dear God, middle of the pack! Where are the buff threads? Strong armor, big HP pool and LMB=damage is still potent.

Größer Kurfürst: Fully 50% more gun power, held back only by being mounted on a garbage barge.

So it goes, so it goes. 

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Targets at Tier 8-10 have a significantly larger HP pool to shoot at, and cruisers and destroyers start getting repair parties. As you get more floating piñatas, you get more damage per game.

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T9 is likely brought down by ships like the very inconsistent FDG and the much misunderstood Izumo.

The other thing at play here is that the offensive capability of ships grows exponentially as tiers rise, while ship armor/defense does not keep the same pace.

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5 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

Targets at Tier 8-10 have a significantly larger HP pool to shoot at, and cruisers and destroyers start getting repair parties. As you get more floating piñatas, you get more damage per game.

^

More HP=more damage.

Edited by DrHolmes52

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Another thing to consider is with the changes in competitive battles going to tier X and them just being the top of the tech tree, players spend a lot of time playing at tier X. With more battles, leads to more experience, plus shooting at higher HP pools. Power jump aside, the increased experience and due to increased battles can certainly play a role

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I suppose "MN" refers to French BB.

 

As for the question, I don't think they do much more damage than other T9. A T10 ship have more HP than a T9 ship and T10 only sees T10-T9-T8.  A 50k damage game at T10 isn't worth a 50k damage at T3 for instance, the same way it's easier to deal 100k damage in a T10 game than it is in a T3-4 because of the HP of ships. I'm sure if we look at the damage number and we compare it to the % HP of the same tier ship, the difference between T9 and T10 wouldn't be significant.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Kochira said:

I was poking around with the average damage of BBs and found something interesting. The graph should be fairly self explanatory. Mikasa was added even though she's premium to give some idea where a tier 2 BB would sit.

ARPhMvW.png

Tier 10 BBs to a lot more damage than tier 9 BBs. Its a much higher difference than any other tier. One possibility is its the effects of always being top tier but if that's the case I'd expect to see something similar in tier 9 but all I see there is potential balance issues. Why do you think WG would want tier 10 BBs to do so much more damage?

Data is from here

Compare that to average BB health per tier.  BB health jumps dramatically when you hit T10.

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2 hours ago, Kochira said:

I was poking around with the average damage of BBs and found something interesting. The graph should be fairly self explanatory. Mikasa was added even though she's premium to give some idea where a tier 2 BB would sit.

ARPhMvW.png

Tier 10 BBs to a lot more damage than tier 9 BBs. Its a much higher difference than any other tier. One possibility is its the effects of always being top tier but if that's the case I'd expect to see something similar in tier 9 but all I see there is potential balance issues. Why do you think WG would want tier 10 BBs to do so much more damage?

Data is from here

It's partly the effect of always being top tier but also the effect of either being full power from the start or only having 1 very short mod to grind to reach full power. Some just Free XP through mods but others either can't afford to or just don't. Every other tier has it's weak period while grinding out mods except T10s.

Not sure if it's odd that the T4s that never see T6s to farm the extra HP off of have a higher average than the T5s as they also live longer due to not having to face the T6s...longer life=more time to farm damage.

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8 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

I suppose "MN" refers to French BB.

 

As for the question, I don't think they do much more damage than other T9. A T10 ship have more HP than a T9 ship and T10 only sees T10-T9-T8.  A 50k damage game at T10 isn't worth a 50k damage at T3 for instance, the same way it's easier to deal 100k damage in a T10 game than it is in a T3-4 because of the HP of ships. I'm sure if we look at the damage number and we compare it to the % HP of the same tier ship, the difference between T9 and T10 wouldn't be significant.

 

 

Yerb, the Marine Nationale.

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1 hour ago, Ace_04 said:

T9 is likely brought down by ships like the very inconsistent FDG and the much misunderstood Izumo.

The other thing at play here is that the offensive capability of ships grows exponentially as tiers rise, while ship armor/defense does not keep the same pace.

Is it just a coincidence that the 2 ships you used as examples are the only BBs from T5-T10 that score less damage than the US (Iowa) in the same tier (only exception being the Gneis at T7 against the Colorado...Colorado beat it out by 7 points 39856(G)-39863(C).

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6 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Is it just a coincidence that the 2 ships you used as examples are the only BBs from T5-T10 that score less damage than the US (Iowa) in the same tier (only exception being the Gneis at T7 against the Colorado...Colorado beat it out by 7 points 39856(G)-39863(C).

I can completely understand why FDG has low output, as there is a fine balance to get the most out of her.  Due to her inconsistent guns, she excels at close range brawling.  But push in too early and you become an easy target for torps and HE spam.  But stay at range too long and those inconsistent guns can't do much work.

Izumo on the other hand, is decently accurate.  I'm one of the few who actually didn't mind the Izumo grind, even if she is the low point between the excellent Amagi and crown jewel Yamato.  Maybe that's what happens when your expectations of a ship are so low/non-existent to begin with.....it's easy to overachieve when the perception is so bad.

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10 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

I can completely understand why FDG has low output, as there is a fine balance to get the most out of her.  Due to her inconsistent guns, she excels at close range brawling.  But push in too early and you become an easy target for torps and HE spam.  But stay at range too long and those inconsistent guns can't do much work.

Izumo on the other hand, is decently accurate.  I'm one of the few who actually didn't mind the Izumo grind, even if she is the low point between the excellent Amagi and crown jewel Yamato.  Maybe that's what happens when your expectations of a ship are so low/non-existent to begin with.....it's easy to overachieve when the perception is so bad.

My highest damage & potential damage records were held by Izumo (after beating out the Amagi) for a long time...before I got HSF camo so I could afford to start running the Yammy...& the Musashi which presently holds both of those records.

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4 hours ago, Kochira said:

I was poking around with the average damage of BBs and found something interesting. The graph should be fairly self explanatory. Mikasa was added even though she's premium to give some idea where a tier 2 BB would sit.

ARPhMvW.pngWhy do you think WG would want tier 10 BBs to do so much more damage?

 

$$.  People who are T10 have to spend RL cash to keep playing it.  They also put in T8s so T10s can easily farm them.  It rewards the people who spend money.

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56 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Izumo on the other hand, is decently accurate.  I'm one of the few who actually didn't mind the Izumo grind, even if she is the low point between the excellent Amagi and crown jewel Yamato.  Maybe that's what happens when your expectations of a ship are so low/non-existent to begin with.....it's easy to overachieve when the perception is so bad.

I had same experience with Izumo, she has very comfortable gunnery, almost cruiser like.  The trick is to find positions where you are able to use all three turrets while limiting your exposure to enemy ships, but this is also true for many other ships.  Izumo will get harsher penalty for bad positioning due to its hull size and armor scheme, but this is understandable.

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7 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

I had same experience with Izumo, she has very comfortable gunnery, almost cruiser like.  The trick is to find positions where you are able to use all three turrets while limiting your exposure to enemy ships, but this is also true for many other ships.  Izumo will get harsher penalty for bad positioning due to its hull size and armor scheme, but this is understandable.

The fact that her gameplay and setup is drastically different from the rest of the IJN BB line doesn't help matters.  Izumo plays differently than Amagi and the rest of the ships before her.

WG faced a similar issue with Nelson in the British BB line, but corrected it by making her a premium so the rest of the line was more linear up the tiers.

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US - Worst or second worst in every tier.  Except for Tier IX where it barely squeaks up to third, and that likely has more to do with the Missouri than anything else.

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1 hour ago, Kuckoo said:

US - Worst or second worst in every tier.  Except for Tier IX where it barely squeaks up to third, and that likely has more to do with the Missouri than anything else.

Yet Montana lesser damage has more significant influence on outcome of the game than more damage that Conqueror does.

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27 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

Yet Montana lesser damage has more significant influence on outcome of the game than more damage that Conqueror does.

Why is that?

I keep hearing about how good the Montana is and, though I'm not doubting it, I'm kinda at a loss on why that's so.

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27 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

Why is that?

I keep hearing about how good the Montana is and, though I'm not doubting it, I'm kinda at a loss on why that's so.

It's number of things.  Conqueror relies on HE to do most of it's damage and often prioritizes high health easy to hit targets such as BBs, that in turn are able to heal most of the fire damage that is done to them.  Conqueror is often forced to project power from beyond the mid range, because it has soft armor (the citadel is rather well protected, but thin upper plates make it vulnerable to HE spam and AP penetrations, Conqueror under focus fire goes down faster than Montana) which, in combination with rather long repair CD, necessitates staying closer to it's safe stealth distance where it can easily disengage.  Thus, Conqueror is not able to project power up close and personal and threaten enemy priority targets, such as DDs and cruisers, not in the same way Montana can.  Montana, due to it's armor scheme and stealth, can creep closer to the front line, and ambush priority targets with accurate AP volleys, often crippling or straight taking out priority targets in one go.  It is also able to grab enemy team attention when it pops up at mid range, and is able to soak up more damage that would otherwise be done to priority targets on your team.  Conqueror that tries to tank for the team in mid range may not live to tell the tale, and might be dead before it can disengage to use it's heal again.

<edit> Popular 12 rifle setup on Conqueror has very weak armor on turrets, which further discourages getting into mid range or closer on that ship.  8 rifle setup has stronger turrets, but can't project as much firepower comparing to 12 rifles.

Edited by Ramsalot
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6 hours ago, Kochira said:

 

One possibility is its the effects of always being top tier but if that's the case I'd expect to see something similar in tier 9 but all I see there is potential balance issues. 

Well, FdG is known to be kinda crap, as well as Izumo. (I'm assuming Musashi hasn't been out long enough to affect the T9 IJN rating much. Iowa is linearly better than NC, which is probably a side effect of being an original ship, and Monty jumps up because it is a straight up 33% increase in firepower.

The French and British seem logical, with T9 beginning a non-linear increase. (but not as much as T10)

5 hours ago, dad003 said:

I do more damage in my t8 than the t9 on this graphics

I don't need the graphics to tell me that. My FdG damage is virtually the same as my Bismarck damage.

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5 hours ago, Compassghost said:

Targets at Tier 8-10 have a significantly larger HP pool to shoot at, and cruisers and destroyers start getting repair parties. As you get more floating piñatas, you get more damage per game.

This. /thread

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7 hours ago, Kochira said:

I was poking around with the average damage of BBs and found something interesting. The graph should be fairly self explanatory. Mikasa was added even though she's premium to give some idea where a tier 2 BB would sit.

ARPhMvW.png

Tier 10 BBs to a lot more damage than tier 9 BBs. Its a much higher difference than any other tier. One possibility is its the effects of always being top tier but if that's the case I'd expect to see something similar in tier 9 but all I see there is potential balance issues. Why do you think WG would want tier 10 BBs to do so much more damage?

Data is from here

Because there is more health to do damage to?

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