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JonnyFreedom

Another Event, another example of bad match making.

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I want to preface this by saying I like this game.  I have spent 100s of dollars on this game.  I want this game to improve, which is why I am being critical of it.  

NZwSMdd.png

Ask yourself this when you hop into a BB:

  • What part of this is fun?
  • Would my customers enjoy this?
  • Does it make sense to have 5 DDs and a Carrier with 4 BBs and 2 CA's at T5

Your MM sucks donkey. I would rather wait in queue for a few minutes than:

  • Be in a severely imbalanced ship ratio game.
  • Be the only tier 8 in the tier 10 game.
  • Be in a game with 3 divisions on the other side where I have none. 
  • Be in a game where everyone's win ratio is sub 50% and the other team is all 52%+
  • Be in a game where one class is over loaded.

Things you can do to fix this:

  • Match Overall Win Rates by ship that is currently being played.
  • Add +1/-1 to all games except for T10, that should be it's own slot.
  • Add weight based on Ranked status.
  • Add weight based on battles played.
  • Add bonuses for ships that are needed in a tier or a game.  Offer bonus experience, credits, crates, what ever.  Look at WoW and what they did with tank and healer shortages, use that as a guide line.  Make people want to play their other ships for bonus's to fill in gaps that people waiting on MM have.

You honestly can't tell me that your Match Making is even remotely decent with a straight face.  I would rather a minute or two and have a good even match than spend 10+ minutes in a poorly matched game.  It is all about player experience, and WoWs offers very little positive in that regard when it comes to match making.  Stop making subs, stop making CV's, put time into your current game to make the experience less crappy.  

You look at the NA numbers right now, sub 5k and an event just started.  That is abysmal.  It isn't due to lack of content, it is due to crappy game design in some area's.  Some of these area's are a simple fix. Match Making algorithms are not even that hard to generate.  You have all the numbers, now just make a formula and adjust as needed.  

I know you said you were looking into this, but this is a 1 to 2 sprint deal.  MM shouldn't take 3+ years to fix.

Edited by JonnyFreedom
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Believe it or not, at tier 5 bbs are more effective at damaging dds than cruisers with their styrofoam launchers :Smile_playing:

Do you know how to angle? Do you know how to aim straight? Can you actually hit dds and weakpoints in enemy bb's armor, or anything that isn't the enormous citadel of an enemy cruiser?

If you say, Yes, YES and YES, this conversation is not necessary.

Honestly the two cruisers on each side are more entitled to cry about the MM imo, that MM is not very healthy for cruisers at all.

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I would contest as a BB, you have no room to complain about any tier. I would say that CA/CL’s through tier 7 are the most punished ships in that range since most do not have a heal and can easily get deleted by a BB or even some tier 8+ CA’s. DD’s tier 6-7 are the most punished because they can be deleted by radar, have to go up against DD’s with the tier 8+ concealment upgrade that already have better guns, and  a good many don’t have that useable of torps to begin with. DD’s from tier 6-10 are the most punished at this range simply because 1 shell from a BB can remove a solid chunk of your health just by luck, you have ships that can spot you even if you don’t make a mistake (radar) for the whole team to light you up, and if you’re going up against a player with over a 49% WR, your torps aren’t going to hit most of the time. 

As a BB, you are rarely deleted by a CV, you should never be deleted by a DD, you cannot be deleted by a CA/CL (unless detonation). So please don’t complain. MM is far from perfect but it isn’t terrible.

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This was the very next game in my Warspite:

e0eOC88.png

 

Needless to say, I am done playing lower ranks till this event ends or they can fix this Match Making.   So in other words, till this event ends.

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21 minutes ago, JonnyFreedom said:

You honestly can't tell me that your Match Making is even remotely decent with a straight face. 

Nor was Taffy 3's, nor that of the ABDA force against the Japanese at the start of the Pacific campaign. War sucks. Just be grateful we get to sit at computers with make-believe ships, not in actual ships waiting to bleed, burn or drown to death.

IIRC changes are coming soon that should ameliorate some of this.

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9 minutes ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

I would contest as a BB, you have no room to complain about any tier. I would say that CA/CL’s through tier 7 are the most punished ships in that range since most do not have a heal and can easily get deleted by a BB or even some tier 8+ CA’s. DD’s tier 6-7 are the most punished because they can be deleted by radar, have to go up against DD’s with the tier 8+ concealment upgrade that already have better guns, and  a good many don’t have that useable of torps to begin with. DD’s from tier 6-10 are the most punished at this range simply because 1 shell from a BB can remove a solid chunk of your health just by luck, you have ships that can spot you even if you don’t make a mistake (radar) for the whole team to light you up, and if you’re going up against a player with over a 49% WR, your torps aren’t going to hit most of the time. 

As a BB, you are rarely deleted by a CV, you should never be deleted by a DD, you cannot be deleted by a CA/CL (unless detonation). So please don’t complain. MM is far from perfect but it isn’t terrible.

Stop focusing on the fact I mentioned a BB.  Focus on the fact the MM sucks garbage.  You make a point it doesn't suck for me.. fine.. it sucked for the CA.. who cares.. it sucked for someone.  THAT IS THE POINT.  It shouldn't SUCK for anyone.  Games are meant to be fun and engaging for all players.  If something makes the game not fun or engaging, then that thing needs to be fixed.  

 

On the whole this game is really fun, which is why I have spend 100s of dollars on it.  There is just some parts that are really not fun.  MM is my biggest beef with this game.  There is literally no reason MM should have made it 3 years with out being fixed.  The MM in this game was terrible in beta and it is still terrible.  It literally has not changed since beta, and that is a problem.  People have been complaining about MM since beta, yet, here we are.

Edited by JonnyFreedom

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1 minute ago, JonnyFreedom said:

Stop focusing on the fact I mentioned a BB.  Focus on the fact the MM sucks garbage.  You make a point it doesn't suck for me.. fine.. it sucked for the CA.. who cares.. it sucked for someone.  THAT IS THE POINT.  It shouldn't SUCK for anyone.

You were the one that specifically mentioned a BB. And to me, the cases I mentioned are less of a MM problem and more of a ship balancing problem (read: powercreep). Yeah MM could stand to be improved, but apart from radar imbalance, I have no problem. 

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15 minutes ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

You were the one that specifically mentioned a BB. And to me, the cases I mentioned are less of a MM problem and more of a ship balancing problem (read: powercreep). Yeah MM could stand to be improved, but apart from radar imbalance, I have no problem. 

I mentioned BB to illustrate a point.  Nothing more.  It was not the focal point of my OP.

  • You have no problem with torps being dropped at 1.3km? 
  • You have no problem with invisible Cruisers raining fire from above all game? 
  • You have no problem with T8's getting stuck in T10 games? 
  • You have no problem with Randoms getting stuck with other randoms who have crappy win rates against a team who are all net positive? 
  • You have no problem with how Rank works? 
  • You have no problem with no matter how well you play, if you are on a losing team you still get the shaft and not rewarded appropriately?

The list goes on, but come on.  Radar is not the overly large problem with this game, unless you are mainly a DD or CA player, which you are.  Although I will concede Radar should be Line of Sight.

Edited by JonnyFreedom

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2 minutes ago, JonnyFreedom said:

I mentioned BB to illustrate a point.  Nothing more.  It was not the focal point of my OP.

  • You have no problem with torps being dropped at 1.3km? 
  • You have no problem with invisible Cruisers raining fire from above all game?  You have no problem with T8's getting stuck in T10 games? 
  • You have no problem with Randoms getting stuck with other randoms who have crappy win rates against a team who are all net positive? 
  • You have no problem with how Rank works? 
  • You have no problem with no matter how well you play, if you are on a losing team you still get the shaft and not rewarded appropriately?

The list goes on, but come on.  Radar is not the overly large problem with this game, unless you are mainly a DD or CA player, which you are.  Although I will concede Radar should be Line of Sight.

1) No, I have no problem with 1.3km launches torps. That is whoever is 1.3km from a DD’s fault. You should have better positioning.

2) Island farming, it’s been in the game so long I’ve learned to stay back some so I can go dark. No it’s not always possible and it’s annoying but you shouldn’t push into an island camper unless you have support. As far as tier 8 in tier 10, those are my HUGE XP games. So much extra XP from damage to higher tiers.

3) I don’t check each team’s average win rate for a reason. I think my win rate is around 56(?)% in solo randoms. I notice so many people complaining yet we’ve still won the game. 12vs12 win rates don’t matter too much. (If you’re talking about ranked only I will agree with this point though)

4) Ranked is a whole other can of worms. It is set to be competitive and as such, I believe should have a leveling factor. As stated above ranked I agree with. MM in random and ranked should be different. 

5) I think over the years I’ve gotten used to being shafted I’m pretty much every game on the losing side.

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45 minutes ago, JonnyFreedom said:

I want to preface this by saying I like this game.  I have spent 100s of dollars on this game.  I want this game to improve, which is why I am being critical of it.  

NZwSMdd.png

Ask yourself this when you hop into a BB:

  • What part of this is fun?
  • Would my customers enjoy this?
  • Does it make sense to have 5 DDs and a Carrier with 4 BBs and 2 CA's at T5

Your MM sucks donkey. I would rather wait in queue for a few minutes than:

  • Be in a severely imbalanced ship ratio game.
  • Be the only tier 8 in the tier 10 game.
  • Be in a game with 3 divisions on the other side where I have none. 
  • Be in a game where everyone's win ratio is sub 50% and the other team is all 52%+
  • Be in a game where one class is over loaded.

Things you can do to fix this:

  • Match Overall Win Rates by ship that is currently being played.
  • Add +1/-1 to all games except for T10, that should be it's own slot.
  • Add weight based on Ranked status.
  • Add weight based on battles played.
  • Add bonuses for ships that are needed in a tier or a game.  Offer bonus experience, credits, crates, what ever.  Look at WoW and what they did with tank and healer shortages, use that as a guide line.  Make people want to play their other ships for bonus's to fill in gaps that people waiting on MM have.

You honestly can't tell me that your Match Making is even remotely decent with a straight face.  I would rather a minute or two and have a good even match than spend 10+ minutes in a poorly matched game.  It is all about player experience, and WoWs offers very little positive in that regard when it comes to match making.  Stop making subs, stop making CV's, put time into your current game to make the experience less crappy.  

You look at the NA numbers right now, sub 5k and an event just started.  That is abysmal.  It isn't due to lack of content, it is due to crappy game design in some area's.  Some of these area's are a simple fix. Match Making algorithms are not even that hard to generate.  You have all the numbers, now just make a formula and adjust as needed.  

I know you said you were looking into this, but this is a 1 to 2 sprint deal.  MM shouldn't take 3+ years to fix.

While it sounds good in theory, I'm not sure a skill based MM will work as intended in actual practice. I cannot name a single game off the top of my head where it has or does. If you want an example, go look at Pirahna games MWO. They use a tier system based on the number of battles played and W/L ratio. The wait times are horrible and the complaints over the system are just as many as over here.

You have some good suggestions on improving MM, like +1/-1 tier MM,  matching teams with the same number of divisions, but while you or I might not mind waiting for more than a couple of minutes for MM to put two teams together, the majority of the player base is likely not that patient.

BTW, I'm not sure where you are from, but the numbers for the NA server at 9:00 am EST are going to be low. 3 am to 11 am EST Monday through Friday is always going to be the time period of lowest server population in NA; so, if you are trying to use to support your argument, most readers are going to write your post and ideas off with that statement. The majority of the population in NA is at school and work currently in the US, Canada, and Mexico except for those on the West Coast. Peak times for the NA server usually start popping upwards after 4:00 pm EST. 

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15 minutes ago, daVinci761st said:

BTW, I'm not sure where you are from, but the numbers for the NA server at 9:00 am EST are going to be low. 3 am to 11 am EST Monday through Friday is always going to be the time period of lowest server population in NA; so, if you are trying to use to support your argument, most readers are going to write your post and ideas off with that statement. The majority of the population in NA is at school and work currently in the US, Canada, and Mexico except for those on the West Coast. Peak times for the NA server usually start popping upwards after 4:00 pm EST. 

https://steamcharts.com/app/552990

https://stats.wotapi.ru/stats/wows/na/total

15k at peak times.  That is VERY low.  Highest peak in 6 months was 18k and has been declining.  So yea, this games playerbase in NA is slowly leaking out.

Edited by JonnyFreedom

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1 hour ago, JonnyFreedom said:

I want to preface this by saying I like this game.  I have spent 100s of dollars on this game.  I want this game to improve, which is why I am being critical of it.  

NZwSMdd.png

Ask yourself this when you hop into a BB:

  • What part of this is fun?
  • Would my customers enjoy this?
  • Does it make sense to have 5 DDs and a Carrier with 4 BBs and 2 CA's at T5

Your MM sucks donkey. I would rather wait in queue for a few minutes than:

  • Be in a severely imbalanced ship ratio game.
  • Be the only tier 8 in the tier 10 game.
  • Be in a game with 3 divisions on the other side where I have none. 
  • Be in a game where everyone's win ratio is sub 50% and the other team is all 52%+
  • Be in a game where one class is over loaded.

Things you can do to fix this:

  • Match Overall Win Rates by ship that is currently being played.
  • Add +1/-1 to all games except for T10, that should be it's own slot.
  • Add weight based on Ranked status.
  • Add weight based on battles played.
  • Add bonuses for ships that are needed in a tier or a game.  Offer bonus experience, credits, crates, what ever.  Look at WoW and what they did with tank and healer shortages, use that as a guide line.  Make people want to play their other ships for bonus's to fill in gaps that people waiting on MM have.

You honestly can't tell me that your Match Making is even remotely decent with a straight face.  I would rather a minute or two and have a good even match than spend 10+ minutes in a poorly matched game.  It is all about player experience, and WoWs offers very little positive in that regard when it comes to match making.  Stop making subs, stop making CV's, put time into your current game to make the experience less crappy.  

You look at the NA numbers right now, sub 5k and an event just started.  That is abysmal.  It isn't due to lack of content, it is due to crappy game design in some area's.  Some of these area's are a simple fix. Match Making algorithms are not even that hard to generate.  You have all the numbers, now just make a formula and adjust as needed.  

I know you said you were looking into this, but this is a 1 to 2 sprint deal.  MM shouldn't take 3+ years to fix.

When are you looking at the number and seeing sub 5k? What time of day?

 

edit: I see this has already been addressed.

Edited by LubzinNJ

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1 minute ago, LubzinNJ said:

At 9AM that isn't bad at all. You have some points you could argue...but number of people playing isn't one of them.

I wouldn't say 7.8k player average is a good number for a game.

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1 minute ago, JonnyFreedom said:

I wouldn't say 7.8k player average is a good number for a game.

It's not an AAA title, it is very much a niche game. Instead of looking at the 7 day look at the 1 year....the average isn't that different. These are the number of people who play the game.

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5 minutes ago, LubzinNJ said:

It's not an AAA title, it is very much a niche game. Instead of looking at the 7 day look at the 1 year....the average isn't that different. These are the number of people who play the game.

More to the point, what can they do to increase the amount of people who are playing this game?  I would love to see more players come in.  Unfortunately we can not see the attrition rate.  We used to have much higher numbers, what can bring them back?  Quality of life things and current game improvements would be the top of my ToDo list.  While Subs and CV's are good, it won't fix people getting frustrated and quitting due to MM or power creep.  

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1 hour ago, The_first_harbinger said:

Believe it or not, at tier 5 bbs are more effective at damaging dds than cruisers with their styrofoam launchers :Smile_playing:

Do you know how to angle? Do you know how to aim straight? Can you actually hit dds and weakpoints in enemy bb's armor, or anything that isn't the enormous citadel of an enemy cruiser?

If you say, Yes, YES and YES, this conversation is not necessary.

Honestly the two cruisers on each side are more entitled to cry about the MM imo, that MM is not very healthy for cruisers at all.

Yeah, I wiped out a half-health Gadjah last night with Iron Duke, and I even had AP loaded, not HE.  Short range, so it was easy, but he'd already dropped his rack and they weren't in my direction.  10 barrels of 13.5 inch = 3 hits with the lovely dispersion, but that's enough.

That's the thing about MM.  You never quite know what the mix is.  You have to adapt to the situation, instead of the game delivering you a known situation every time.

 

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1 hour ago, JonnyFreedom said:

NZwSMdd.png

 

1 hour ago, JonnyFreedom said:

e0eOC88.png

Looks like what you are bugged about the most is the plethora of DDs in each match......seems that RADAR hasn't killed the DD after all. Notice in both of your examples there are quite a few BBs as well. 

AS far as MM goes i  have seen very good matchmaking as far as ship types go, with WG matching ship for ship. Granted, the skill level of the driver is not taken into account but given that the average skill level is around 49% WR, MM would have a hard time putting us into a match where all of our opponents are the exact same skill level and our relatively small player base has already taken a hit with the new game mode just introduced.

Sp while we all must suffer with the lopsided wins and losses.....personally I think WG is going in the right direction with MM. 

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27 minutes ago, SgtSpud said:

 

Looks like what you are bugged about the most is the plethora of DDs in each match......seems that RADAR hasn't killed the DD after all. Notice in both of your examples there are quite a few BBs as well. 

AS far as MM goes i  have seen very good matchmaking as far as ship types go, with WG matching ship for ship. Granted, the skill level of the driver is not taken into account but given that the average skill level is around 49% WR, MM would have a hard time putting us into a match where all of our opponents are the exact same skill level and our relatively small player base has already taken a hit with the new game mode just introduced.

Sp while we all must suffer with the lopsided wins and losses.....personally I think WG is going in the right direction with MM. 

There is no radar at T5-T6 unless you get up tiered, which is another problem with MM.  You match WR +/-1 and it wouldn't be a big deal to find people.  There is no reason to have that much imbalance in class composition.

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1 hour ago, JonnyFreedom said:

I mentioned BB to illustrate a point.  Nothing more.  It was not the focal point of my OP.

  • You have no problem with torps being dropped at 1.3km? 
  • You have no problem with invisible Cruisers raining fire from above all game? 
  • You have no problem with T8's getting stuck in T10 games? 
  • You have no problem with Randoms getting stuck with other randoms who have crappy win rates against a team who are all net positive? 
  • You have no problem with how Rank works? 
  • You have no problem with no matter how well you play, if you are on a losing team you still get the shaft and not rewarded appropriately?

The list goes on, but come on.  Radar is not the overly large problem with this game, unless you are mainly a DD or CA player, which you are.  Although I will concede Radar should be Line of Sight.

First of all I'd like to say that you are 100% correct and many players feel the same frustration. I've brought most of the above up in the past only to be attacked and trolled to death. 

The game was originally more arcade but based on historically accurate warships. Over time WG decided to abandon this model and push a more economical model that put more $$ in their pockets. Listen, it's their game and they can do whatever they want but the fact that they continue on about the history of these ships is laughable. There was a time when most players knew that the higher tiers meant better players. This isn't true anymore. Quite the opposite.  When a CV drops 6 torps 1.3km away from my BB  and each is dropped exactly the same distance from my ship and apart from each other ….we enter the realm of ridiculous. When the game introduced CVs they basically melted two different games into one.

Cruisers - Yes, we had the odd cruiser that could spam invisibly. Now with the introduction of so many new U.S radar cruisers it's common to have 3+ of these ships hiding behind islands for entire battles burning down BBs without them being able to see what is shooting at them. Add radar and now they don't even need other ships to spot. Remember, the new brilliant radar can see through islands so cruisers camp without worry.

T8s in T10 battles - that was has been discussed often.

Unbalanced team MM - yup. Nobody can explain how it is that I can lose 8+ battles in a row while Matchmaker app predicted every loss in advance. Now, this happening once in awhile I can understand but 3-4 days in a row is outside the laws of averages. I'm a big believer in math, it doesn't lie. Funny enough I never have win streaks like this. It only takes one extra step for MM to even out the players.

Ranks - big joke. You are ranked on how lucky you were to have the better players on your team enough times in a row to progress.

Like I said. WG new business model is to push as many players into tier 10. This is how they make their money. In the average high tier battle each side will be covered with smoke. If you are lucky you might spot the odd ships in the first few minutes.  DDs are afraid to cap or move forward because somewhere lurking behind the islands is 3-5 radar cruisers so instead they too hide behind islands. BBs can't move forward because there's nobody spotting and they don't want to be torped by an invisible DD so they camp in the back.  This is not only getting frustrating but very boring.

Honestly, I now mostly play tiers 5-7  and I'm getting very bored of this game. It seems to be a repeat of WOT.   

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shot-18.09.19_22.39.26-0240.jpgshot-18.09.19_22.39.31-0821.jpg

Tier VIII destroyer in a Tier X match.

You can choose to live up to your level or aim higher. I aim higher.

"In order to accomplish your mission, you always have to keep moving forward." - Kurt Chew-Een Lee, US Marine Corps

#anchorsaweigh

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2 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Nor was Taffy 3's, nor that of the ABDA force against the Japanese at the start of the Pacific campaign. War sucks. Just be grateful we get to sit at computers with make-believe ships, not in actual ships waiting to bleed, burn or drown to death.

IIRC changes are coming soon that should ameliorate some of this.

It's been a long time since I've had to look up a word in the dictionary...congrats :cap_like:

Of course I got the meaning from the context but at my age to run across a word for the first time...well it doesn't happen very often.

How did you start using it; was it on one of those word of the day calendars? :cap_cool:

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