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vikingno2

kHAB

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Doesn't really need it...doesn't need concealment expert either if you were thinking of that as a replacement.

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PT,PM

LS, AR

SE, Vigilance, DE

AFT

Thats what I run. 

IFHE still won't get you to the magic number of 32 where you start penning a lot more stuff. So its really not that useful, especially considering what you have to give up.

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Just last night I decided to switch from a  Flamu-compatible survival captain (PT, PM, AR, LS, DE, SI, AFT) to an aggression build that emphasizes the guns over everything (PT, LS, AR, DE, BFT, AFT, IFHE). I’m still not bothering with EM since Khab hardly needs a traverse buff. Here’s what I found in five games:

* IFHE only helps against cruisers, but you see cruisers a LOT. Any smart DD will be managing the hell out of its visibility with a Khaba around, and BBs are tasty to burn down but it takes a while. You have a lot more impact on the game if you do the same amount of damage to a CA/CL instead of a BB, but previously I couldn’t do that. Clevelands were especially frustrating: they can’t hit me at 12km, but they had to show their side before I could damage them. Now pretty much every salvo on a CA/CL takes a meaty 2-4k of their health. Any fire damage I lose is more than covered by better alpha.

I don’t mind getting pursued by a cruiser, usually I win those, but it takes a while and I end up on a far corner of the map by the time he’s sunk. With IFHE a cruiser will realize very fast that chasing a Khab is a stupid thing to do.

* You definitely notice the sacrifices. SE is really designed for Khaba, an extra heal/boost is great, and you appreciate that extra security from PM when a Hindenburg’s eating modules like popcorn. 

* In the five games I played as a cruiser-hunting maniac, I get paired with railguns, railguns and railguns. Every time I push or defend a flank there’s a Zao or a Hindenburg countering my [edited]. In my last game I held a lonely flank against...two Hindenburgs and a Moskva. Efffffff yoooouuuuuu, MM.

Fortunately, help arrived and I contributed respectably to their sinking (~60k damage total, counting some DDs I grazed); without IFHE I’d have contributed very little aside from fires. 

So yeah, the things that IFHE helps you pen constitute a modest fraction of what’s out there. On the other hand Khaba sees those things a lot.  The way I see it, Khaba becomes much more effective at its job (solo flank sheepdog) when it can hurt cruisers enough to make them respect its space. 

Edited by Eugenie_101

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Man, I've looked at the armor specs and this IFHE thing really has me thinking because it is pretty challenging to get good damage on those cruisers aside from fires. I don't like giving up SE and PM, but those are the ones I would dump. I might try it.  Thanks for the info.

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IFHE is too expensive IMO.  As noted its only purpose aside from lowering your fire chance is to increase raw damage on CA.

The issue is I really only look to fight CA if they are broadside and AP just works better.  CA wants to bow on to you keep moving to force it to give broadside to your BBs while using HE, and swap back to AP if it broadsides again.

My Khaba captain:

image.thumb.png.1da4395f2a750c838ae631d91fac274d.png

Edited by Destroyer_KuroshioKai

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On 10/26/2018 at 7:21 PM, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

IFHE is too expensive IMO.  As noted its only purpose aside from lowering your fire chance is to increase raw damage on CA.

The issue is I really only look to fight CA if they are broadside and AP just works better.  CA wants to bow on to you keep moving to force it to give broadside to your BBs while using HE, and swap back to AP if it broadsides again.

My Khaba captain:

image.thumb.png.1da4395f2a750c838ae631d91fac274d.png

This is the exact build I'm going for with my (future) Khaba. On the Tashkent right now, I can see that this build will work. I agree that IFHE is too expensive for what you get. Sometimes DD players forget they have AP.

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1 minute ago, Vector03 said:

This is the exact build I'm going for with my (future) Khaba. On the Tashkent right now, I can see that this build will work. I agree that IFHE is too expensive for what you get. Sometimes DD players forget they have AP.

My only potential modification at this time would be dropping DE for SI for more survivability if you have issues surviving the game.  I mainly accomplish that via good positioning so I wanted more damage output.

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9 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

My only potential modification at this time would be dropping DE for SI for more survivability if you have issues surviving the game.  I mainly accomplish that via good positioning so I wanted more damage output.

That's fair. I don't fault anyone for using SI since it's such an all-around great skill. I'm building my IJN commander differently than my Russian guy of course. I feel the Russian gunboat style DD's are my favorite ships so far in the game since they seem to fit the current meta.

I've seen a few of your videos and you have some good tips. Being a newer player focused almost 100% on DDs, I find them to be quite informative.

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If you are dropping an offensive skill for SI I would recommend dropping BFT before DE. You will get more damage with DE than BFT. Keeping BBs and CAs on fire is a very important part of khab play. That being said, three heals is ample for me. By the time I've gotten to number three the game is either lost or won. Having that dakka dakka, though, that is key. You can turn a whole flank around singlehandedly. 

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2 hours ago, mrieder79 said:

If you are dropping an offensive skill for SI I would recommend dropping BFT before DE. You will get more damage with DE than BFT. Keeping BBs and CAs on fire is a very important part of khab play. That being said, three heals is ample for me. By the time I've gotten to number three the game is either lost or won. Having that dakka dakka, though, that is key. You can turn a whole flank around singlehandedly. 

I still prefer BFT over DE.  One of the critical things for my play style in Khaba is to kill enemy DDs spotted by my team.  I want max DPM on them.  Farming a couple extra fires in a game is doubtful to make as much of an impact then an extra 1-3 volleys on every DD I can shoot. 

Regardless, I only recommend SI if you have survivability issues.  I do not, so I dont take SI. 

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10 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

I still prefer BFT over DE.  One of the critical things for my play style in Khaba is to kill enemy DDs spotted by my team.  I want max DPM on them.  Farming a couple extra fires in a game is doubtful to make as much of an impact then an extra 1-3 volleys on every DD I can shoot. 

Regardless, I only recommend SI if you have survivability issues.  I do not, so I dont take SI. 

I would agree with this sentiment here. With fire resistance naturally going up the higher the tier is, DE becomes less and less useful as a skill to take. BFT helps you with the better reload as well as better AA, and better reload also means more shells overall, which also translates to more fire chance indirectly.

As far as SI, my current 19 point captain with Khabarovsk has PM, LS, AR, BFT, AFT, SE, SI, and 1 unused skill point. The purpose of this captain build was for Random Battles where at times that extra heal was helpful. However, during Ranked Battles, I don't think that extra heal charge was used at all, and if you're messing around in Coop, you should never need to use it. I find it much more optimal to take smoke in Coop anyway.

I am going to build a second captain for my Khabarovsk with my normal Russian captain build of PM, LS, AR, BFT, AFT, CE, and SE. Yes, I know everyone else says don't ever bother with any concealment on Khabarovsk, but if you've been paying any attention to my past previous posts, I am pretty much unique in how I play Russian destroyers and am willing to teach anyone interested in learning how to play them as actual destroyers.

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On 10/26/2018 at 7:21 PM, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

IFHE is too expensive IMO.  As noted its only purpose aside from lowering your fire chance is to increase raw damage on CA.

The issue is I really only look to fight CA if they are broadside and AP just works better.  CA wants to bow on to you keep moving to force it to give broadside to your BBs while using HE, and swap back to AP if it broadsides again.

My Khaba captain:

image.thumb.png.1da4395f2a750c838ae631d91fac274d.png

After something like twenty games, I’m putting up the white flag for my pure aggression build. As much as I like to feast on DM and Wooster, I’m missing those survival skills too much. Win rate doesn’t lie. 

Thanks DKK for your tips!

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Thanks for posting the results of your experiment. It is valuable research. 

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On 10/30/2018 at 3:05 PM, mrieder79 said:

Thanks for posting the results of your experiment. It is valuable research. 

I work with data IRL, so here is a visualization of my experience with a build focused on aggression rather than survival.  The chart shows my solo win rate (my overall is a bit lower since I mostly div to help newer friends get started). 

It turns out that in Khaba survival is about 7/8ths of the battle.  Since hiding won't happen, absorbing damage is the ship's bread and butter.  I can't count how often I escape a shellacking with 1k or health or so, heal it back and make someone miserable later in the game. 

chart2.JPG.36430ce946153bfaf781bd62d56cbff5.JPG

Edited by Eugenie_101

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I've seriously considered switching captains to the special RU captain with the PM perk that gives 45% reduction in module incapacitation vs the normal 30%. Module damage is one of the biggest challenges I face in Khab.

  • Cool 1

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