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FlakKnight

Lightning and general RNDD impressions

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So Lightning.  Admittedly I am starting at a 10 point captain for her.  However, now that I've gotten a chance to play a few matches and feel how the ship handles, I'm a bit confused as to how to spec it out and play it moving forward.

The shell arcs and lack of a speed boost aren't good enough to play CL in between smokes.  The shell velocity and range don't feel good enough to play wasd games, though you can get away with acceleration tricks a few times.  The torps are really great at ambush and defensive engagements where you can make them work, but they lack the German reload to screen with them.  Not only that but the shallow range isn't great at extending your reach to make up for the lack of speed boost.

The smoke is fairly restrictive thus far.  While it's harder to outrun accidentally like with the CLs, the length being so short makes it hard to really leverage it.

Overall, I'm not sure where to take this ship.  The guns are punishing enough to take advantage of surprising an enemy DD, but you can't really bully caps if the enemy DD has any support at all due to lower durability.  You run out of smoke charges surprisingly quickly if you're forced to smoke and shoot to engage because of terrain, and you can't really open water gunboat.

Without speed boost you can't relocate to force unguarded caps quite as carefree.  You also can't close range easily to stealth torp.  It may seem a small but having only 3-4 kts on a retreating BB with short range torps isn't ideal.

It seems to operate best when it has chaos to hide in, and quickly runs out of tools as the battle progresses and distance between ships left increases.

Curious what others are doing or thinking about these.

 

 

 

 

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First impressions of the tier 5, 6 & 7 are they are Meh-botes.   They just don't fulfill any role well (not bad either just meh).

I've had the best games so far harrying the opposition while being careful to not commit to a full on push. They lack the real punch of torp boats and their guns preclude them from being real cap contesting dakka boats ( horrendous Turret traverse , floaty arcs & meh ROF).

The smoke is the only reason I wouldn't just play a cruiser instead

 

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6 hours ago, Camo68 said:

First impressions of the tier 5, 6 & 7 are they are Meh-botes.   They just don't fulfill any role well (not bad either just meh).

I've had the best games so far harrying the opposition while being careful to not commit to a full on push. They lack the real punch of torp boats and their guns preclude them from being real cap contesting dakka boats ( horrendous Turret traverse , floaty arcs & meh ROF).

The smoke is the only reason I wouldn't just play a cruiser instead

 

This seems too be a fair summary, though admittedly the T8 doesn't seem to have the same turret traverse issue.  I did notice that on the Jervis.

My best games for me so far have been ones where I'm either a second DD on a cap or hang back and harass.  The ship doesn't have the durability or overwhelming firepower to bully, but it has enough to punish DDs that don't have support or smoke.  That and radar is even more dangerous when you're 8 kts slower than other DDs trying to escape it even if you're playing safe.

 

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I had some better luck today.  Lightning really thrives if it can play terrain to actively set up defensive scenarios.  You really can't play caps early except incidentally.  If it's a generic open cap, you'll just die unless the enemy fails hard or you have stellar support.  The guns are workable without ifhe but these are 120s so I'm guessing that's a fluke with the T8.

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So the impression seems to be that of a mini CL, but unlike the Akizuki family and the Russians who fully embrace their cruiser-ness the RN DDs are in that situation because they're waffling back and forth and can't decide if they want to be destroyers or cruisers. Like,

"I wanna have good guns!"
"Okay, you're not going to have good torps then."
"But I NEED those!"
"So your gun traverse is going to suck."
"Nooooo! Isn't there something else you can change?"
"I mean, we can take off speed boost..."
"Okay I guess... OH! And I've gotta have hydro too! The Germans make that look awesome. And I wanna keep those single-fire torp launchers that the cruisers get!"
"You're not making this easy..."

It's like all the other lines are min-maxed around a specific trait, or balanced generalists at least, but the RN DDs couldn't decide what skills to take and thus spread their points too thin.

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I have the Icarus, I have not been able to get a grip on how this ship is even playable or competitive with the other tier 6's. although I have the base 3pt captain, I have difficulty figuring out the correct skills that could make it competitive.

I believe that you are going to need at least a 10pt captain to even have a chance.  The guns have good range, but there are only 4 of them that fire at a slow rate. the turrets are very similar to the Japanese torp boats in the rotation speed, but you get Russian torp range at 7km with the upgraded torps. the concealment is meh you'll be spotted before you can even launch a single torp. The Icarus is not a enjoyable dd to play, it is decent if you want to spot something but will get slaughtered if it gets into a gun fight with any other dd besides the jap torp boats even then they can just torp you before can even spot them. 

 

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 i Wonder if monaghan can out gun them,  i'm gonna try hunt some down xD

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1 hour ago, Binktor said:

I have the Icarus, I have not been able to get a grip on how this ship is even playable or competitive with the other tier 6's. although I have the base 3pt captain, I have difficulty figuring out the correct skills that could make it competitive.

I believe that you are going to need at least a 10pt captain to even have a chance.  The guns have good range, but there are only 4 of them that fire at a slow rate. the turrets are very similar to the Japanese torp boats in the rotation speed, but you get Russian torp range at 7km with the upgraded torps. the concealment is meh you'll be spotted before you can even launch a single torp. The Icarus is not a enjoyable dd to play, it is decent if you want to spot something but will get slaughtered if it gets into a gun fight with any other dd besides the jap torp boats even then they can just torp you before can even spot them. 

 

To be honest since they don't have better durability, firepower or speed, these guys seem uselessly bad without a 10 pt CE captain at a minimum.

The first day I had Lightning, I just spent the last of my credits on the discounted ships I had unlocked so I couldn't afford the concealment module.  Day 2 I ground out the credits to fully equip it.  The difference is immense.

The trick is RNDDs cannot push directly.  You can indirectly push by using concealment to flank enemy DDs and getting an extra 3-4 free volleys after they are surprised as hell to see you BEHIND them.  I've killed T9 DDs (10s tend to just be a bridge to far to solo most times) doing this, an ersatz rush down if you will.

It seems you have to micromanage concealment and short smokes to create defensive ambushes constantly.  It's fun and risky but doable, you just give up a lot of opportunities outright stronger DDs would just bully in due to a lack of ability for the ship tio survive the extra risk.  These ships can't be used wantonly because they lose effective dpm races, despite the high theoretical dpm paper stats they have low durability and 1/6 he pen.

 

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If the Premiums already available (Vampire, Gallant, Haida, Blyskawika)) are to be the reference, we have a problem. I have really iregular results on them and much worse than on Russian or US ones. But they turn on a dime and can be fun.

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I have Jervis and once I got the hang of her, I really grew to like her. British DDs seem to be more defensivly minded but once you accept that they are a lot of fun.

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I can only hope they give these ships, the mainstay of the Battle of the Atlantic, decent ASW features in the future.

So far they just seem so 'meh'.

And tey're only really playable if you have 16pt captains.

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I managed to land the T5, 6, and 7 the first day and I have to agree they're not very inspiring. The short torp range combined with the lackluster concealment is what gets me the most. Everything else I can live with.

I have a feeling they're being set up as a solid Anti-sub line with the jumpstart speeds and the long duration sonar(assuming the subs test out well and get implemented) Maybe their sonar will get some sort of boost versus subs that other nations sonars won't. And maybe we'll get a hedgehog consumable for the later tiers that will be mostly unique...who knows. 

I hope we're able to figure out some sort of niche for them though...I don't want to waste a free T7 if I don't have to. 

 

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Actually I have to say that I'm liking the Jervis. Her gunnery is pretty comfortable thanks to that 360 degree traverse on the Y turret, plus those shallow shell arcs, I'm betting that gunnery is going to be great once I get Bert Dunkirk trained up and add Expert Marksman. She's no Akizuki by any means, but I'll take her over Shiratsuyu. Also, I'm not minding the lack of speed boost. She's plenty nimble and starts up super quick right out the gate. The one complaint I really have is the arcs on the torpedo launchers and not being able to bring down her concealment further. I've found her torps to be effective, but VERY situational because of this. Their smoke is also pathetic, but I tend to avoid using smoke so that's not a big problem for me. People keep saying that the RN DDs excel as harassers in a whirling melee where nobody knows what the heck is going on, and I'd call that a fair assessment.

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The only one I have so far is Acasta.  At least so far I really, really like this ship--the guns are great providing you have them pointing the right way, and while the lack of speed boost feels weird & tends to hurt in the late game, she's fast enough for most scenarios (and accelerates like nothing else).  The torps are meh...having 8 is nice and it's a reasonable reload for the tier, but my experience is that they're a bit lacking in stopping power and of course the 6km range (combined with max 6km concealment) makes them tricky to use.  The smoke, combined with the acceleration, is good enough to escape a hairy situation just so long as you don't try to use it to shoot from.  One big drawback is that she doesn't uptier well--the guns are just fine against T5 ships, but you're going to get hammered going up against a T7 gunboat.

All that being said, she's fun to play!  Acasta excels as a second destroyer on the scene, pouring in fire while the enemy is already focused on your decoy teammate.  Her small size & good maneuverability make open water firing doable as well, although the small hit point pool means you won't want to be openly firing with multiple enemy ships targeting you.  One (probably temporary) bonus to the short-lived smoke is that you tend to get a fair number of people who try to charge it, and right about the time they get there (and you've put some distance between it and yourself), the smoke runs out...makes for a great way to get relatively easy torpedo hits without getting mauled in the process.

If anybody's interested, I did upload a pretty good game I had in Acasta (actually the second game I'd ever played in her) to WoWs replays

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Jervis and Lightening have too very different playstyles.

Jervis gets dmg done via fires, and if possible, IFHE. Awful concealment means it spends a lot of time, popping smoke, then running.

Lightning is more versatile, dmg via its excellent AP shells vs other dds and cruisers, using HE as a finisher. Torps vs bbs, enabled by excellent concealment. Which also means, less use of smoke.

I use two very different captain skill builds, one for each of these two dds, because though they are historically similar, gameplay wise they are very different.

Both are enjoyable ships to play.

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With the Lightning, I really only ever felt weak in my first random game (after 3 co-ops to get a feel for maneuvering).  The next after that, 70k damage through single fire torpedos and screwing over a pair of Jervises (Jervisii?) in B cap (On I think the name is The Trap?). Third and last tonight saw low-mid damage but a dead red Lightning through 2km torps and 1.5 mil potential damage while doing the shimi-shimi-shake teasing a couple radar cruisers (Seattle and Buffalo).

I like it.  It may not normally put up the numbers of just about anything else, but the maneuvering makes it a blast and the overall usefulness in ancillary gameplay make up for it in my mind.  Will certainly be the first ship I go to when I’m working on something else and stagnant teams start to frustrate me.  Gonna get it up to high xp to jump into the Jutland on release for sure.

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13 hours ago, HMS_Formidable said:

I can only hope they give these ships, the mainstay of the Battle of the Atlantic, decent ASW features in the future.

So far they just seem so 'meh'.

And tey're only really playable if you have 16pt captains.

They are peferctly playable with a 10 PT captain. Not sure why you'd need a 16 PT one. :/

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Going to be honest was not impressed with the stats on the RN dd line. Jervis is ok. Great agility but the turrets turn slow and a tiny window to fire torps undetected. Gun don’t hit hard. 

Got the lighting and decided to kick the tires not expecting much. The 5.5 km detection is nice. Much larger torp window. Faster turning turrets and the guns seem to hit hard for a dd. I had 100k in damage and 3 kills in my first outing. Bow in bbs are in for trouble. You can get close and single fire the torps. I landed 9 torps and some how missed a Colorado. I also gunned down a cruiser and dd. In short the concealment makes the high tier dds dangerous 

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I hope the line picks up with the Lightning; my first couple games in the Jervis were rather uninspiring.  It just doesn't seem to do anything well - mediocre detection, mediocre guns, mediocre  torpedoes with terrible arcs... Though if I am being fair, the first game was a tier 9 game where I was constantly dealing with radar and trying to duel a Z-46 and the second game was a tier 7 game with 2 CVs per side. 

Lightning was the only one of the 4 I was looking forward to, and is still the only one I have not gotten the mission for.  Curse you, RNG!

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i love the lightning , i think i found the DD line that will work very good for me ,  been finishing top 1 in the team and a lot of top 3 with mine , their speed is not an issue for me , they got fast rudder shift turn on a dime , and you can get some sick torpedo beats with them ,  i already put 200k exp on mine just waiting for the full release of the line now !

 

shot-18.09.24_04.41.36-0474.jpg

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I will say I'm really starting to like Lightning.  I'm hoping to get IFHE on my captain by the time Jutland comes out so as not to get trashed by the return to 113s.
 

The speed is very limiting though, especially lacking speed boost.  It's amazing how much missing a few knots limits you in certain situations.

 

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I really like the Lightning, I found having SE really helps in a gunfight, that xtra hp has helped me out a lot, bought the extra dunkirk captain from the event and the extra bit in marksmen really makes it easy for those guns to bear down on a target.  She is not fast but I got tons of the speed flag so it helps a bit.

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Hello everyone! Here are my .02 cents on the RN DD Lightning thus far. A bit of a foreword... I am a DD main and really enjoy playing high tier DDs. I am fairly new (3k battles) so my only tier 10s up to now are the Gearing, Z-52 and Yeuyang. There is a Too Long : Didn't Read placed at the end. 

My initial impression was a mixed bag due to the lack of speed boost and the short smoke screen duration. What is a DD to do without MAXIMUM POWER to outrun OP radar? How will I shell away at those meanie BBs without a 90 second smoke screen?!

After putting a fair amount of games in her and building up some points on my captain, I REALLY enjoy this boat. 

Lets begin with her mobility. Lack of speed boost you say? This is not a problem. What she lacks in raw top speed she makes up for in acceleration and maneuverability.  This RN DD can start on a dime. From 0 - 100 in a jiffy. Incoming torps you say? You are out of there faster than a Brit running to save his cup of Tea he has forgotten. With that in consideration she boasts excellent rudder shift and turning skills rivaled only by Fast and the Furious Tokyo Drift drivers. One final point about her mobility is how well she maintains speed. In any other DD I have piloted thus far, taking a hard turn really hurts your speed; you begrudgingly wait as it picks back up as your butt is on fire and incoming rounds are boiling the water next to you. In the lightning your speed stays up and you are able to swiftly vacate the premises. 

Lets talk about those guns!! These fire starters turned out to be quite a surprise and I am quite happy with them. Excuse me for not having the exact numbers but I will do the best I can. The turret traverse is just shy of "great" and much better than "acceptable". The rate of fire is spot on. The fire chance is exciting. I have 0 hesitation getting into a knife fight with any opposing Tier 8 or below DD. Your rate of fire keeps up, and combined with your turret traverse/rudder shift, this will give you a great chance of over coming the enemy. 

Next is the Lightning's concealment and consumables. With a 10 point captain in place, (more on that build later) using Concealment Expert, and a camo, your detectability is 5.5km. This is an excellent concealment and can absolutely be exploited to outspot the majority of ships in your tier, even other DDs!! Combining her consumables with this outstanding detection radius and maneuverability the Lighting truly becomes a fierce enemy.

Hydroacustic search!!!! This beautiful boat has a super long duration Hydro consumable. With the premium module addition it lasts for around 3 whole minutes. It has a detection radius of 3km for torpedoes and boats alike. In a defensive set up, this Hydro is outstanding for battling in a cap around a small or large island(s). Unlike the German DD hydro with a range of 4km+ this is much shorter in distance. Use this length to your advantage around islands, and when setting up traps to flush out an opposing DD into a dangerous situation. I do not suggest chasing down boats using this radar unless your situational awareness is spot on. Please remember what happened to Leeroy Jenkins. 

Smoke screen for 30 seconds you say?! That's useless... NOT! This smoke fits perfectly in this radar heavy meta.  With the amount of radar in play these smokes truly play into your favor for setting up ambushes and baiting out radar when the odds are in your favor. I have seen many cruisers use smoke as a queue to fire up the radar and blast that poor DD trying to get some shelling in. Cleveland @ 8km away? Pop your smoke and back your butt up behind the island. Launch an expertly placed spread of single fire torps to a charging cruiser not wanting to waste his radar. The smoke is gone just as his radar dissipates and you are sailing away, bobbing and weaving through the islands.

Finally lets talk about the Lightning's torpedoes. They have an 8km range with a respectable reload speed. The 8km range leaves something to be desired and fall short to some of her counterparts. With that said these torpedoes can be fired in such a way that a cunning Captain can next to guarantee a hit almost 100% of the time. With some practice the single fire mechanic can be used to hit a boat no matter which way they turn to avoid these deadly metal fish. 

Combining everything mentioned above I feel this ship is truly a worth adversary in battle. The RN DD Lightning has low detetabilty, consumables to match the current meta, guns and torpedoes that if used well can outclass her opponents and maneuverability to dodge duck dip dive and dodge incoming fire. 

I will make another post to outline how I have my Captain Points specialized.  

TLDR: Immensely fun ship with great detectability, agility, specialized firepower and consumables that really match the current meta. 

 

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Finally bagged the mission for Lightning and got her earlier tonight.  Through the first 10 games I must say she is far and away better than Jervis.  She can absolutely be a cap bully against anything same tier or lower; the RoF and 360 degree turret arcs are very much in your favor.  Combined with the hydro to spot out the torps you can trade with almost any DD.  I feel like many of the DDs I encountered tonight were a bit shocked at how quickly Lightning can erode their health pool.  I really want to get SE and see how much I can push the envelope.  The Akizuki type IJN DDs and tier 9-10 russian DDs will give her fits though for sure.

The acceleration is also great, and she wiggles really well - you can dodge a lot of damage just by wiggling as you run.  The lack of speed boost is sometimes a bit frustrating, though with the speed flag she tops out at 37.9 knots which isn't terrible.  While I might wish for another 2km in range on the torps they are very usable because of the 5.5km min detect range, you just have to be mindful of radar; she also starts fires rather well, and DE might be a viable skill.  Similar shell arcs to Jervis and the others, so anything past 7km or so will need to be going fairly straight in order to land many hits.

As to how to spec Lightning?  I'm not an expert, but I would think that a build that maximizes her guns and survivability (BFT, SE, etc) would turn her into a fairly nasty cap contesting boat.  Can't really ignore the torps though, and while the base reload is good TAE might also be viable and will shave just shy of 10 seconds off the reload.  I feel like Lightning is 'good enough' at a few different things that you could try a couple of different builds and have success.

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