Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
USMC2145

The Mighty Jingles video on Subs and the CV revamp.

20 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

268
[SHOOT]
Beta Testers
1,711 posts
8,135 battles
4 minutes ago, USMC2145 said:

 

 

Thanks, i thought only flamu did a vid on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
151
[B2P]
Members
517 posts
13,689 battles

I think both of these game aspects will be fun.  I'm in the same boat as Jingles, where I tried CV's a few times, realized I wasn't very good in them, and really haven't played them since.  But I will try them again once the new gameplay mode comes out.  It looks more along the lines of what I had originally hoped the CV gameplay would be, that is actually (sort of) flying your planes in for an attack run, rather than just watching them perform it.

As for subs, I'm fine with it for the Halloween event.  Should be fun and different, like the bath tub fleet.  But as far as random play, I don't see it happening.  WG is usually good at keeping the general stats of a ship intact, and I can't see a WW2 U-boat, with a top surface speed of under 18kts (under 8 submerged), making much or any contributions to the team.

Of course it is all just speculation at this point.  We'll just have to wait and see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
141
Alpha Tester
1,303 posts
403 battles
4 minutes ago, DreadRaybo said:

I think both of these game aspects will be fun.  I'm in the same boat as Jingles, where I tried CV's a few times, realized I wasn't very good in them, and really haven't played them since.  But I will try them again once the new gameplay mode comes out.  It looks more along the lines of what I had originally hoped the CV gameplay would be, that is actually (sort of) flying your planes in for an attack run, rather than just watching them perform it.

As for subs, I'm fine with it for the Halloween event.  Should be fun and different, like the bath tub fleet.  But as far as random play, I don't see it happening.  WG is usually good at keeping the general stats of a ship intact, and I can't see a WW2 U-boat, with a top surface speed of under 18kts (under 8 submerged), making much or any contributions to the team.

Of course it is all just speculation at this point.  We'll just have to wait and see.

WG already stated Subs would have their speed, and other paramaters changed to make them fun. additionally top tier USN subs will almost guaranteed be SSN's. so 20-33Knot speed pretty easy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
822
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
2,452 posts
12 minutes ago, Xplato said:

WG already stated Subs would have their speed, and other paramaters changed to make them fun. additionally top tier USN subs will almost guaranteed be SSN's. so 20-33Knot speed pretty easy.

And that's a sure sign that they really don't belong in the game -- if you have a make a choice between cartoon stats for a ship, or having it not work... then it doesn't work either way.

Are there ANY current ships that have their speed adjusted to 2 or 3 times its actual max?

 

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
151
[B2P]
Members
517 posts
13,689 battles
6 minutes ago, Xplato said:

WG already stated Subs would have their speed, and other paramaters changed to make them fun. additionally top tier USN subs will almost guaranteed be SSN's. so 20-33Knot speed pretty easy.

Yes, but I believe that was implied for the event, which is all they have concrete plans for at the moment.  And I kind of doubt they would include nuclear powered submarines, even at high tiers, as they don't have any nuclear powered CV's.  Could be wrong.  All speculation at this point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
822
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
2,452 posts
4 minutes ago, DreadRaybo said:

Yes, but I believe that was implied for the event, which is all they have concrete plans for at the moment.  And I kind of doubt they would include nuclear powered submarines, even at high tiers, as they don't have any nuclear powered CV's.  Could be wrong.  All speculation at this point.

I hope those saying that a lot of the company statements are poorly-delivered comments specifically about the special holiday event are correct.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
141
Alpha Tester
1,303 posts
403 battles
9 minutes ago, DreadRaybo said:

Yes, but I believe that was implied for the event, which is all they have concrete plans for at the moment.  And I kind of doubt they would include nuclear powered submarines, even at high tiers, as they don't have any nuclear powered CV's.  Could be wrong.  All speculation at this point.

devblog that was asking questions, stated they would adjust them for gameplay.

SSN's Don't have anything that would be problematic. biggest thing is just faster underwater speed. Sound isn't modeled ingame so that which is the biggest advantage won't matter ingame.

If WG does a full tree, USS Nautilas pretty much is gurreenteed to be in the game, so SSN's will be ingame.

 

12 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

And that's a sure sign that they really don't belong in the game -- if you have a make a choice between cartoon stats for a ship, or having it not work... then it doesn't work either way.

Are there ANY current ships that have their speed adjusted to 2 or 3 times its actual max?

 

 

in a game where BB can hit anything without firing 1,000 shells, print a new ship in 30secounds, Cruisers that don't get insta evaporated by 16inch shells, DD with infinate Torps, CV's with 10 secound deployment of entire air wings, RADAR that penitrates islands...

yeah WG hasn't ever changed anything to make something in WOWS work.... :P

I think you need to understand just how much WG changes things to suit balance, and gameplay for the players. becuese hint increasing subs speed by 10 knots, is not even close to the amount of changes WG does to every other class.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
764
[ARS]
Beta Testers
2,253 posts
1,860 battles
33 minutes ago, Xplato said:

If WG does a full tree, USS Nautilas pretty much is gurreenteed to be in the game, so SSN's will be ingame.

I don't see USS Nautilus as a forgone conclusion.  Frankly, I think it is pretty unlikely and I think you're applying your wishful thinking to WG's plans.

Tier X would be things that were introduced at the end of WWII or immediately post war.  I don't see 1950s stuff being added as it turns what ought to be lines capped with real boats into lines capped with paper or, worse, WG fantasy boats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
822
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
2,452 posts
44 minutes ago, Xplato said:

in a game where BB can hit anything without firing 1,000 shells, print a new ship in 30secounds, Cruisers that don't get insta evaporated by 16inch shells, DD with infinate Torps, CV's with 10 secound deployment of entire air wings, RADAR that penitrates islands...

yeah WG hasn't ever changed anything to make something in WOWS work.... :P

I think you need to understand just how much WG changes things to suit balance, and gameplay for the players. becuese hint increasing subs speed by 10 knots, is not even close to the amount of changes WG does to every other class.

Does WG change speeds by 2 or 3 times? Does WG change armor values drastically?   We're getting into values that WG hasn't much messed with as far as I've seen (and hey, if I've missed one, it's a lot of ships). 

As for infinite torpedoes and island-penetrating radar... maybe those aren't examples of cartoonish elements that are good for the game...

And it's not as if increased speed for subs will make things any better, it will just mitigate the suck for the person playing the sub a little bit, while increasing the suck for everyone else.

 

 

  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
141
Alpha Tester
1,303 posts
403 battles
10 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Does WG change speeds by 2 or 3 times? Does WG change armor values drastically?   We're getting into values that WG hasn't much messed with as far as I've seen (and hey, if I've missed one, it's a lot of ships). 

As for infinite torpedoes and island-penetrating radar... maybe those aren't examples of cartoonish elements that are good for the game...

And it's not as if increased speed for subs will make things any better, it will just mitigate the suck for the person playing the sub a little bit, while increasing the suck for everyone else.

 

 

are you somhow implying Wargamming is going to give Subs DD like levels underwater? becuese thats a stupid statement. Subs will almost gurrenteed have BB like underwater speeds, cruiser like on the surface.

 

WG also makes the accruacy of BB several hundred times better ingame than IRL, so much for your 2 or 3 times huh?

 

Wg has already changed the speeds of ships, looking at Montana here. it's a precident already set.

 

more likely your just a bad BBaby. sucks your finally going to have to actually learn to play the game huh?

28 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

I don't see USS Nautilus as a forgone conclusion.  Frankly, I think it is pretty unlikely and I think you're applying your wishful thinking to WG's plans.

Tier X would be things that were introduced at the end of WWII or immediately post war.  I don't see 1950s stuff being added as it turns what ought to be lines capped with real boats into lines capped with paper or, worse, WG fantasy boats.

it is a forgone conclusion. Think about it, what high tier ship will sell the line. other than a completely retarded los angeles class. Nautilas is the only real option, it would be like if the IJN line didn't have the yamato, or the USN line didn't have either the des moines, or Iowa.

it's pretty much a gurrentee, since Tang isn't really suited for tier 9/10. only other option is Nautilus, and then Skate/Skipjack.

Subs aren't BB,Cruisers, or destroyers. new classes, and tech doesn't really change from 1930-1948. most of the improvements are small. different steel used, updated equipment, new tech to make them more efficient hunters. which is why they pretty much are going to stretch into the late 50s. SSN's really don't improve any of the weapon systems, biggest advantage is sound,and underwater speed. neither of which are problematic in WOWS. Silent hunter yes. WOWS? no.

USN line has enough crapto fill at least 1 line + a mini branch with zero problems.

KM however will have to have completely WG made up tier 9/10 unfortunately. They don't have any tier 9/10 candidates. well not unless you want a 1968 Sub in the game, and that's way to [edited]close to the Los Angeles class for comfort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
822
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
2,452 posts
12 minutes ago, Xplato said:

more likely your just a bad BBaby. sucks your finally going to have to actually learn to play the game huh?

And now we see the real motive behind your statements come out.

"Anything that hurts BBs is good, anyone opposed must be a "BBaby"."

Oh well.

 

(For the record, I have about 9000 cruiser battles compared to about 4600 battleship battles.)

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
141
Alpha Tester
1,303 posts
403 battles
19 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

And now we see the real motive behind your statements come out.

"Anything that hurts BBs is good, anyone opposed must be a "BBaby"."

Oh well.

 

(For the record, I have about 9000 cruiser battles compared to about 4600 battleship battles.)

 

Quote

And it's not as if increased speed for subs will make things any better, it will just mitigate the suck for the person playing the sub a little bit, while increasing the suck for everyone else.

you mention how having increased speed with just make somone who sucks in Subs, make everyone else worse off.

however have you thought for a moment why Subs might be getting added?

WG seems to feel that BB are far to strong right now(They are, hell have almost always been) how do you counter a BB? sure CV can do it, but they have limitations. DD never were designed to take on BB. ingame, and IRL. Cruisers obviously can't thanks to 203MM, or less effectively, they can burn them down but that's not a fun game mechanic for anyone.

The only real choice is a Sub, the defacto Anti capital ship platform. other than carriers no other ship during WW2 was anywhere near as effective at sinking a Capital ship as Subs were.

 

WG feels at least from what we can tell, that too many BB are being placed in games right now, someone else said it, but WG probably feels their should at most be 2 BB per side, not 5. similar to how carriers are limited per side too. And really it's pretty obvious why. BB have zero counters to Subs, it's the ultimate Rock paper scissors(which WG abandoned long ago, maybe they wan't to actually try to balance the game that way again)

If the sub is played bad the BB can punish the sub, when it has to resurface. however if the Sub is even played moderately successful the BB is dead. which means a Team game, means well:

BB will actually have to learn how to play their class finally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
822
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
2,452 posts
5 minutes ago, Xplato said:

however have you thought for a moment why Subs might be getting added?

 

To spam more "content" to make more money. 

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

how do you counter a BB?

I like to take a German cruiser with strong bow armor, face-tank the bugger, and torp the crap out of it. 

 

no other ship during WW2 was anywhere near as effective at sinking a Capital ship as Subs were.

Very few of the kills people have been listing off actually took place in combat, per se.

 

BB will actually have to learn how to play their class finally.

:Smile_smile:

Edited by KilljoyCutter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
764
[ARS]
Beta Testers
2,253 posts
1,860 battles
35 minutes ago, Xplato said:

it is a forgone conclusion. Think about it, what high tier ship will sell the line. other than a completely retarded los angeles class. Nautilas is the only real option, it would be like if the IJN line didn't have the yamato, or the USN line didn't have either the des moines, or Iowa.

it's pretty much a gurrentee, since Tang isn't really suited for tier 9/10. only other option is Nautilus, and then Skate/Skipjack.

Subs aren't BB,Cruisers, or destroyers. new classes, and tech doesn't really change from 1930-1948. most of the improvements are small. different steel used, updated equipment, new tech to make them more efficient hunters. which is why they pretty much are going to stretch into the late 50s. SSN's really don't improve any of the weapon systems, biggest advantage is sound,and underwater speed. neither of which are problematic in WOWS. Silent hunter yes. WOWS? no.

USN line has enough crapto fill at least 1 line + a mini branch with zero problems.

KM however will have to have completely WG made up tier 9/10 unfortunately. They don't have any tier 9/10 candidates. well not unless you want a 1968 Sub in the game, and that's way to [edited]close to the Los Angeles class for comfort.

It is a forgone conclusion in your mind.  You haven't given any reason at all that Tang isn't Tier X material, just stated that it isn't as though that is incontrovertible fact.

The Type XXI could well be seen as Tier X material for Germany, but not if you make Nautilus the Tier X for the USA.  Remember, submarines would need to be so artificially buffed beyond what any class in WoWS has been buffed to thus far that which boat sits at Tier X is completely arbitrary.  There is no basis for claiming Tang isn't Tier X material when Tang's stats will, essentially, be completely fabricated to be whatever they have to be to make it whichever Tier WG decides to put it at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
822
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
2,452 posts
3 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

Remember, submarines would need to be so artificially buffed beyond what any class in WoWS has been buffed to thus far that which boat sits at Tier X is completely arbitrary.  There is no basis for claiming Tang isn't Tier X material when Tang's stats will, essentially, be completely fabricated to be whatever they have to be to make it whichever Tier WG decides to put it at.

And that's kinda been my point in general -- there's a difference between the sorts of changes made to the ships in-game right now to make them playable and balanced (more or less), and the sorts of changes that will have to be made to submarines to do the same.   It will be an entirely different order of magnitude of fabrication.

Most ships now are in the suspension of disbelief zone.

Submarines will be in the "hang your disbelief by the neck until dead" zone.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
822
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
2,452 posts

Love that Jingles IMMEDIATELY points out that WG has long and repeatedly said that submarines would NEVER be in World of Warships. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
141
Alpha Tester
1,303 posts
403 battles
4 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

It is a forgone conclusion in your mind.  You haven't given any reason at all that Tang isn't Tier X material, just stated that it isn't as though that is incontrovertible fact.

The Type XXI could well be seen as Tier X material for Germany, but not if you make Nautilus the Tier X for the USA.  Remember, submarines would need to be so artificially buffed beyond what any class in WoWS has been buffed to thus far that which boat sits at Tier X is completely arbitrary.  There is no basis for claiming Tang isn't Tier X material when Tang's stats will, essentially, be completely fabricated to be whatever they have to be to make it whichever Tier WG decides to put it at.

Tang isn't Tier x material, because once again Nautilus. like I stated, if you actually read anything. is far too famous to not be put in. lets say WG says no to SSN(They won't because they love money to much, but for the sake of argument) could Tang be a tier X? still no. Tier X generally are the Apex of the line, and the idea in real life. Montana is the Apex of the USN BB ideology. never actually constructed. but planned. Tang was just a stopgap to implement Guppy technology into a Sub. the Apex of that line would have to be SSN's. however assuming SSN's are out, you basically would see Tang buffed like the Yamato is at tier 10. except 10x worse.

Same goes for XXI. it's the same situation really.

 

and really artificially buffed? when we have BB in the game with absurd 100x their IRL accuracy? not to mention all of the other artificially buffed ships we have? please we both know every ship class is artifically buffed to the extreme just to make the game play at least fun, Subs will be no different.

really I have to wonder what game have you been playing if you think Subs are the first ships to be "artificially buffed" because it clearly isn't WOWS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
764
[ARS]
Beta Testers
2,253 posts
1,860 battles
7 minutes ago, Xplato said:

Tang isn't Tier x material, because once again Nautilus. like I stated, if you actually read anything. is far too famous to not be put in. lets say WG says no to SSN(They won't because they love money to much, but for the sake of argument) could Tang be a tier X? still no. Tier X generally are the Apex of the line, and the idea in real life. Montana is the Apex of the USN BB ideology. never actually constructed. but planned. Tang was just a stopgap to implement Guppy technology into a Sub. the Apex of that line would have to be SSN's. however assuming SSN's are out, you basically would see Tang buffed like the Yamato is at tier 10. except 10x worse.

Same goes for XXI. it's the same situation really.

 

and really artificially buffed? when we have BB in the game with absurd 100x their IRL accuracy? not to mention all of the other artificially buffed ships we have? please we both know every ship class is artifically buffed to the extreme just to make the game play at least fun, Subs will be no different.

really I have to wonder what game have you been playing if you think Subs are the first ships to be "artificially buffed" because it clearly isn't WOWS.

No, Nautilus is not too famous to not put into the game.  That's like claiming the USS Nimitz or HMS Victory are too famous to not be put into the game.  Famous ships that are out of spec for the game don't get put into the game.

Heck, Nautilus isn't even that famous.

Any submarine will have to be buffed 10 times worse than Yamato to be Tier X.  Submarines inherently don't fit into fleet battles.

Edited by Helstrem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
141
Alpha Tester
1,303 posts
403 battles
Just now, Helstrem said:

No, Nautilus is not too famous to not put into the game.  That's like claiming the USS Nimitz or HMS Victory are too famous to not be put into the game.  Famous ships that are out of spec for the game don't get put into the game.

Heck, Nautilus isn't even that famous.

incorrect. Nautilus is way to famous to not be in a Sub line. nor is it out of spec.

your comparing a Ship that is basically a Tang, with slight improvements, to a nuclear powered aircraft carrier, that carries CIWS, F-18Super hornets, Various other modern military Hardware.

to a Ship that could do 5 more knots underwater, and was quieter than an XXI a Ship made in 1943....

do you see the stupidity in your post, because I sure do.

it's a bloody Tang with faster underwater speed, less torpedo tubes, bigger. it's only real advantages were far less sound(which won't even be modeled in-game ever) and faster underwater speed, of which WG has said they will already change the boats parameters for game-play. just like they did with every other class in the game.

It fits into the game tech wise, line wise, nation wise.

and is only the most famous sub to ever exist. even if my heart goes out to USS Sea-lion personally.You ask anyone who knows anything about naval history in the 20th century everyone knows what the Nautilus is. can't say the same for a lot of tier 9/10's in WOWS now can we?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×