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AlcatrazNC

CV Rework gameplay

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Just found it on Flamu's Discord . It's in PVE mod.

 

 

lol already a downvote 

Edited by AlcatrazNC
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No real thinking or planning needed cause planes all now move at super speed and no real need as you have only the one group. Alpha is still high and with everything being manual attacks now, things are still getting wrecked. Only difference is now, instead of it being one attack from several angles it's several passes from one group. Which, instead of the CV likely hitting you and being done for 2 minutes, are now just constantly bothered by it. The planes still at best look "meh". It looks like you get no actual choice with what you use, you use whatever the game says you have up. You have no control of the ship forbid you fall under attack. 

 

Seriously, the RTS version is far more interesting because aside from something different, because I'm not just sitting on my thumbs as my planes head over and then just circle as I pound away at something same as I would pretty much anything else. Much like choosing a shell type I'm choosing what group attacks what target in what order. Do I attack from one side or both. Do I change targets to a different ship that just got spotted, or to help a teammate. Where do I focus my fighter cover? Not to mention because I don't spend a ton of time in plane/CV view, it bothers me less that the planes look like toys. What I see here in this video, much like Wargaming's is  really dull and monotonous. Nothing about this new version really seems engaging and really just goes against what a CV is. 

And here's the thing, cause I can almost sense the "go play an RTS game comment" - I DESPISE RTS games. For all the ones my friends said "oh, you gotta try this one", I have hated them all except for 1 - Halo Wars 1. I hated Artillery in tanks, more so in playing it than dealing with it, that rework was... okay. And in terns of "less alpha, more accuracy, more debuff/dot based" - the right idea on what CV's need to be, which so far this rework does not appear to be. But CV's here - I actually enjoy them. There's stuff that needs fixing sure - lower tier ships need better AA, later war hulls that have it, like Colorado getting a post rebuild WV setup or even something like Maryland's. Conversely, higher tier AA, need to take it down a notch per barrel. CV alpha is far too high, namely torps combined with manual drop and AP bombs. CV's losing all their planes is an issue. Strafing is broke and needs to be fixed, especially because it's most of the skill gap issue. USN fighters are way too strong and need a nerf, while their slower attack planes need an HP buff so they have more HP than IJN's, and HE bombs need to be a tad more accurate and consistent. 

I like CV's because they are different, just like most BB's, CA/L and DD are different from the others. DB's and rockets look and seem like attacking with a spotter plane up, and TB's like using torps on any other ship. Just with enhanced zoom and guidance like a damn missile. That and CV's shouldn't be about reflex actions and all, it should be more mental. 

I play Warships to command a ship, and all it's weapons and resources. Not one turret at a time. Not just 1 tube at a time. Not just the spotter plane. All of them, in unison, a symphony and orchestra of destruction. 

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I agree with Wandering Ghost's commentary, the RTS has far more depth of gameplay, and is much better at retaining interest. But, if this is the future, so be it, survive and adapt, salt will still flow, dev strikes will still happen.

The CV looks horribly vulnerable to a dd snipe, which contradicts WG's assertion that want cvs to endure with strike capability, throughout the battle. Because what is the difference, between being sniped and being deplaned? The result is much the same. This is an incoherent position from devs.

 

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1 hour ago, AlcatrazNC said:

lol already a downvote 

me too, don't worry about it. people downvote for very silly reasons.

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I'm not a CV main, I play some games when I feel like it but the straf mecanic is so far the only proof of a skill we have as CV. Sure it's a smart move to put a planes above any priority target to keep him spotted but that's not skill at all. And auto drop isn't about skill. Personnally I like the current CV gameplay but I agree straf needs to be rework or remove :

-It needs to be rework to make it not broken but at the same time more effective than just click and forget.

or

-It needs to be removed but they have to find something else to compensate for that. 

 

The one thing I like about the rework is that CV can no longer cover 90% of the map. CV counter DD too hard by doing both spotting and strike.

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This multi-pass sky cancer distraction, if actually implemented, will be a game-breaker.

Fortunately, this ain't the only game in town any more.

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Still watching didn't really like the looks of AA?  That was a Tier 10 match and  didn't get impression that AA was punitive enough...the pass where he pushed torp planes into two cruisers it didn't look like it was very penal.. Would seem at those tiers trying a torp run on two 8-10 Tier cruisers would wipe a squadron completely out?    Every single pass from every plane type looked like it went on until all armaments were spent?   At least I think that was what I was watching?     Looks like it is a long way from being ready in my eyes.. none the less looks like an interesting change for sure?    

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I like the new CV rework for many reasons yet understand the views of those who are opposed to it.  However, we have reached a point where CVs get fixed or eliminated.  That simple.  We all know it cannot remain the same regardless of the insistence of the handful of super-unicum CV players.

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1 hour ago, RA6E_ said:

Still watching didn't really like the looks of AA?  That was a Tier 10 match and  didn't get impression that AA was punitive enough...the pass where he pushed torp planes into two cruisers it didn't look like it was very penal.. Would seem at those tiers trying a torp run on two 8-10 Tier cruisers would wipe a squadron completely out?    Every single pass from every plane type looked like it went on until all armaments were spent?   At least I think that was what I was watching?     Looks like it is a long way from being ready in my eyes.. none the less looks like an interesting change for sure?    

The video is not really a good representation of defenses against planes. All of the ships in the video are lousy AA boats. The Midway is attacking Fusos, Zaos and Shimas. There might have been an Amagi in one of them. 

So what we have is just more basic gameplay video although this one nicely shows takeoffs and landings and how the carrier operates for the first time.  The battleships are way below tier (T6 against T10 planes) and the worst line T6 AA battleships at that.  Even Zao and Shima are bad AA boats for their type. We really can't comment much on the AA and how easy it is to attack and defend until we see something like a Midway trying to make a run on a max AA spec Montana with an AA spec Worcester or Des Moines nearby to see that maximum AA densities will do to planes or how hard it is to get hits on ships like cruisers and DDs which are actively maneuvering. 

What they have shown is pretty much the most optimal circumstances to show off how the plane gameplay works. We just need to see what least optimal looks like. I also want to point out that there is one scene where the planes start taking a good bit of damage from the 2 Zaos and the battleship all being in range. 

Also - To Wargaming. Please work a bit more on the takeoff animation. The planes look like they leap into the sky rather than taking off. 

Edited by Tzarevitch
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As I look at the video again, two things I do think need a bit of adjustment:

1. The planes can maneuver way too much while they are making attack runs.

2. Also, the planes are turning around after an attack run far too fast. 

I suspect those will be adjusted during the beta when they get a better sampling of how well (or not so well) the planes are performing against real world PVP targets. 

Edited by Tzarevitch

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24 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

To Wargaming. Please work a bit more on the takeoff animation. The planes look like they leap into the sky rather than taking off.

So much this!

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ALso the damage values seen here are still not set for balance. They're testing ease of lining up runs and how that all works out. And yeah they where using midway planes against seriously downtiered ships mostly. If anything the fact that the fuso appeared to do as much damage as it did was rather impressive. I'd be very leery of going in on a better AAA ship than that.

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i’m happy i’m in the hospital because i got cancer from watch this.

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3 hours ago, LoveBote said:

I agree with Wandering Ghost's commentary, the RTS has far more depth of gameplay, and is much better at retaining interest.

Of course it is, all the people that are interested are playing CVs, and many won't be interested in the new gameplay.

But the rework isn't about retaining the old interest, it's about generating new interest

3 hours ago, LoveBote said:

....salt will still flow, dev strikes will still happen.

Yup, people just won't win or lose as often based on that being one-sided.

It's all about choices. You no longer get to have fewer decisions because you are better at doing more things simultaneously.

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Whoa, this is looking good. CV will apparently be somewhat helpless if caught in the open while the planes are elsewhere.

I think WG's experimenting with a DB buff. Look to 3:10-3:15, the DB drop two bombs each, not one. I also noted the TB wide/narrow drop change is unchanged--that'll irritate anyone that hates being nailed by TB. Also, fire chance on rockets has been nerfed.

2 hours ago, CG11_HoleSnipe said:

This multi-pass sky cancer distraction, if actually implemented, will be a game-breaker.

Fortunately, this ain't the only game in town any more.

We haven't seen the improved AA yet. Give it time. Besides, I'm sure AA builds will get more popular when this goes live.

Have to realize too, Midway has the toughest planes. This is WIP gameplay with poorly equipped bots.  Of course it'll look OP.

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I was always interested in carrier gameplay, but realised I stood no chance against the gifted unicums, who are the players that can manipulate multiple airgroups competently under pressure. I will NEVER be able to do that.

Whatever this brings - and remember we are seeing only the basic mechanics being tested here, not all the background XP/balance stuff YET - it could well (a) bring more CV-oriented players into carriers and (b) level the CV playing field when one team gets people whose skill-set favours multitasking and the other does not, especially if there are two per side.

1 hour ago, Tzarevitch said:

I suspect those will be adjusted during the beta when they get a better sampling of how well (or not so well) the planes are performing against real world PVP targets. 

Or even against uncrippled, AA-optimised, high-AI bots.

With infinite aircraft available, I suspect plane kill figures are going to go way, way up.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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35 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

 

Or even against uncrippled, AA-optimised, high-AI bots.

With infinite aircraft available, I suspect plane kill figures are going to go way, way up.

I suspect so too, and that should be the case. 

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57 minutes ago, Reymu said:

Whoa, this is looking good. CV will apparently be somewhat helpless if caught in the open while the planes are elsewhere.

I think WG's experimenting with a DB buff. Look to 3:10-3:15, the DB drop two bombs each, not one. I also noted the TB wide/narrow drop change is unchanged--that'll irritate anyone that hates being nailed by TB. Also, fire chance on rockets has been nerfed.

We haven't seen the improved AA yet. Give it time. Besides, I'm sure AA builds will get more popular when this goes live.

Have to realize too, Midway has the toughest planes. This is WIP gameplay with poorly equipped bots.  Of course it'll look OP.

This is very true and would be accurate IRL, however IRL a Carrier would never not have  some fighter escort present. and always had at least DD escort...of course that won't work here in game.        Might make a nice consumable... An AI DB & or Fighter cover.   I could really see cvs immediately hunting each other under this unlimited plane deal..    Once a plane group finds a carrier alone..  Probably be lights out.  Upgraded AA will be very very important to have on your CV    I think the fighter cover has already been mentioned.?     

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38 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I was always interested in carrier gameplay, but realised I stood no chance against the gifted unicums, who are the players that can manipulate multiple airgroups competently under pressure. I will NEVER be able to do that.

.

 

I agree 100%. I tried to lean CVs as they are now but I just can't manage that many individual units at once under pressure like that, and that is just with Ranger. I can't even imagine managing Hak's airgroups. It was just stressing me out rather than relaxing me. I'll pick CVs up again after the rework is complete, unless I get a Beta invite. (Hint, Hint. lol). 

Interestingly, I think that one of the Zaos was using defensive fire at about 9:10 in the video. The flak clouds seemed to go up a lot, a number of the planes too damage and the aiming cone did not narrow at all on the TB drop. I really would like to see a demo with more AA capable ships to see the other end of the spectrum at some point, but that may just have to wait until later. Overall I am pleased. I think this model will encourage more play since it is much closer to how ships operate. Basically the airgroup behaves like a fast, fragile, light-hitting ship that has to attack in multiple passes. 

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8 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

I'll pick CVs up again after the rework is complete

If this goes through, my nine-year-old is going to be OVER THE MOON. He knows about World of Warplanes and I think he badly wants to play it (or see me play it), and I sort of share his enthusiasm; but two games of this sort of complexity is too much for me to fit into my lifestyle, and he already has too much screen time already. But if I let him do this in a Langley or Bogue in co-op on the weekends, I think he'll be well content.

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3 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

If this goes through, my nine-year-old is going to be OVER THE MOON. He knows about World of Warplanes and I think he badly wants to play it (or see me play it), and I sort of share his enthusiasm; but two games of this sort of complexity is too much for me to fit into my lifestyle, and he already has too much screen time already. But if I let him do this in a Langley or Bogue in co-op on the weekends, I think he'll be well content.

 

Daaaw. Hope he enjoys it when it goes live.

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I'm curious as to whether the new CV game play will be more system-intensive. There is a lot going on in terms of graphics, and I doubt that everyone who plays WOWS has a rig that can handle it. I have a feeling that we're going to see a bunch of new CV players with computers on fire in the future.

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On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 4:43 PM, guns_at_last_light said:

I'm curious as to whether the new CV game play will be more system-intensive. There is a lot going on in terms of graphics, and I doubt that everyone who plays WOWS has a rig that can handle it. I have a feeling that we're going to see a bunch of new CV players with computers on fire in the future.

I really doubt it. There's nothing particularly more graphics intensive than the ships themselves sailing through the water and fighting. 

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On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 4:43 PM, guns_at_last_light said:

I'm curious as to whether the new CV game play will be more system-intensive. There is a lot going on in terms of graphics, and I doubt that everyone who plays WOWS has a rig that can handle it. I have a feeling that we're going to see a bunch of new CV players with computers on fire in the future.

how would it be more system-intensive? 

 

How to play the rework as of now

launch 1 Squad

click on it and hit Z

use mouse to move around

Rework

is that system intensive?

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6 hours ago, nukethefearless said:

how would it be more system-intensive? 

 

How to play the rework as of now

launch 1 Squad

click on it and hit Z

use mouse to move around

Rework

is that system intensive?

The video showed close up action in which lots of animation was occurring in high detail. That requires some substantial system resources. I started playing WG on an old Mac laptop, and had to disable a lot of things to work. CV play and close-in BB combat nearly melted my computer. There are a number of forum posts in which players talk about having old computers. The high detailed CV play proposed is going to drain older computers, but that doesn't mean that those players won't play. 

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