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Mothermoy

couple of questions about RN BB

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1. what tier does the line start representing endgame tiers, 

2. is warspite a good captains trainer?

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1, KGV (Tier 7) onwards I would say starts to represent the need to be selective with ammo as the smaller caliber stresses the need to compensate with HE at times. KGV also has decent concealment while also having the large amounts of HE vulnerable plating. However you don't get access to the super heal until the T9 Lion. Monarch is generally considered the low point of the line. So either KGV or Monarch would probably be representative depending on where you focus, except for the heal.

2, Yes, Warspite benefits nicely from a concealment/survival build and you aren't denying yourself any critical attributes building skills like that. The only skill that would be questionable is whether you value Expert Loader as a skill for RN BBs as Warspite is very much an AP centric ship, far more than other RN BBs. So Expert Loader would be next to useless on Warspite, but has value on RN BBs if you value that skill. Warspite can also benefit from secondary boosting skills such as AFT due to her secondary composition and layout, and because this skill also boosts AA it is still compatible with RN BBs. That will come down to whether you value something like Fire Prevention over say AFT for AA power, so personal preference. I will say however play-style wise Warspite isn't wholly representative of the line as her mobility characteristics are somewhat unique among BBs today, so keep that in mind.

Warspite, Nelson and Hood would all make perfectly viable captain trainers for RN BBs, though Hood does place an emphasis on AFT due to her unique AA gimmick.

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Warspite is an awesome ship to train on to do secondary gun fire, although its so slow speed and slow to turn can be off putting.

I found the best EN BB was the HOOD - Fast Speed, Fast Acceleration if you dont do a full stop, Sleek, Fast turning, and if you get between 7-12k distance from a target you can easy devastate a Cruiser and get between 15-20k damage salvo on a BB - One negative is 90% of match's the AA is useless as no CV in it - but hope that will change with the future CV rework

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2 hours ago, Mothermoy said:

1. what tier does the line start representing endgame tiers, 

2. is warspite a good captains trainer?

Tier VII, KGV starts exemplifying the rest of the line.

 

A blend of speed, concealment, powerful HE shells. 

 

A word of warning, a big negative aspect is they share a fondness of 32mm or lighter armor all over the ship.  This means that HE is very dangerous to RN BBs.  I'm not talking about the threat of fires, that's easy to deal with.  The problem is that HE spam cuts your HP down quickly if you are in a bad spot because 203mm+ or IFHE boosted 152mm HE shells easily penetrate for raw damage.  Cruisers have the accuracy and gun reload to really hurt you, quickly.  Personally, when I play RN BBs, even with Conqueror at Tier X, I feel my 2 biggest threats to me are Torpedoes and HE Spam.  If you are not careful, some of those long ranged HE focused Cruisers like Schors, Chapayev, Zao, Hindenburg, Roon, etc. will melt your HP.

 

Even with KGV, I placed someone who has a clue to playing POS armored Schors at long range against me as a far more dangerous threat than Scharnhorst.  Schors can, and will connect its hits with you regularly at long range, and you'll watch your HP drop in rapid, little chunks, and your guns will struggle to hit it that far out.  You run into 2 Cruisers focusing you, or one of those new IJN DD Gunboats like Kitakaze, they will cut you quickly.

 

Warspite is so-so as a trainer for RN BBs.  She is the only one out of all the RN BBs that has decent Secondaries for their tier.  The rest have garbage secondaries.  Even FreeXP ship Nelson has garbage a.f. Secondaries.  The typical Warspite Secondaries Build does not mesh well with RN BBs because of this.  However, if you build Warspite with ASM1 instead for main battery focus, then she'll be like the tech tree RN BBs.

 

I do want to throw out Nelson as a trainer.  She is a FreeXP ship, so she can be earned for free.  She is in Tier VII, which is a highly favored tier, while Warspite expects to be downtiered a lot.  Nelson is also a great ship, and the BB to usurp the title of Queen of Tier VII Battleships from Scharnhorst.  The typical Nelson build is focused on stealth - main battery - survival, and that meshes 100% with Tier VII+ RN BBs.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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If by representing endgame tiers you mean insane heal and high fire chance that starts at T9, otherwise T7.
IMO none of them were noteworthy until T9 none were bad so to speak just nothing noteworthy up to that point.
Warspite is a great ship but it's still T6, T7 and T8s make better trainers because they are either consistently top tier or uptiered (dealing damage to higher tier ships nets better rewards).
Nelson is the best trainer available at the moment, the Vanguard may give it a run for it's money when it comes out.

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14 minutes ago, Troa_Barton said:

Warspite is a great ship but it's still T6, T7 and T8s make better trainers because they are either consistently top tier or uptiered (dealing damage to higher tier ships nets better rewards).

I dont think better rewards for being uptiered really matters when trying to learn how to do certain things on a given ship - The reward is in the training and learning hence - TRAINING SHIP

The Nelson is probably one of the best ships to learn how to make sure never to be at an over angle showing too much of that front end broad side too. Couple degrees too much on angle and you can get punished big time

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52 minutes ago, Feclez said:

I dont think better rewards for being uptiered really matters when trying to learn how to do certain things on a given ship - The reward is in the training and learning hence - TRAINING SHIP

The Nelson is probably one of the best ships to learn how to make sure never to be at an over angle showing too much of that front end broad side too. Couple degrees too much on angle and you can get punished big time

Your definition of a "training" ship differs from mine.
I define a training ship as a premium ship used for grinding credits and more importantly XP for the captains of the corresponding nation. Higher credits and XP gained from being uptiered directly benefits this goal.
A good training ship is then one that is used optimally with the ideal captain skills used in the main line, and one that performs consistently well at high tier.
Bonus points for ships that can perform double duty, able to retrain captains from different classes. Example being the Atago since IJN ships all run CE all of them can be trained on the Atago with only slight performance decreases.

If you have a 19 point captain the best training ship is one that is the best ship in class at tier. A ship that you would be hard pressed to do badly in that will print money and elite commander xp that can be used to retain any captain of any nation of any class of ship. Examples being the Belfast, Kutuzov, and Missouri.

If you are looking to learn how to use a particular line of ships you should play that line of ships.

Buying a premium ship to learn the line of ships will get you players that have no idea what they are doing in a high tier ship example being the term Derpitz.
Also many premium ships have characteristics that in no way reflect the main line of ships. The Lo Yang is a prime example of this seeing as none of the Pan Asian DDs have hydo. The Warspite has monsterous AP and a reasonable BB HE fire chance at tier with exceptional accuracy also not a trait common of most UK BBs. Massachusetts is another prime example seeing as secondary builds are not a common build found on USN BBs. I can keep going but you get my point.

That said the Nelson has an insane heal, fantastic HE, fantastic AP, and a low base HP pool which is supplemented by said heal. Just like higher tier Royal Navy BBs. The Nelson in this case is a ship that would fit into both of our definitions.

It could be argued that all battleships teach you to angle, surprisingly a lesson few seem to learn.

Edited by Troa_Barton

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17 minutes ago, Troa_Barton said:

Your definition of a "training" ship differs from mine.

My bad, Misread the OP Training question as he stated Commander*.. Insomnia at its best...

 

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1) Tier 7 KGV is a the start of the end game 'representation' of the line. Good He and Good solid hitting AP. It has a solid concealment when built for stealth and can stealth up to many battleships if built this way. 

2) Good trainers: Duke of York. DOY is an almost identical twin to the KGV . Same Gun layout and armor and again can be built for stealth quite effectively. Nelson is also good although I am not a fan of the all front mounted turrets it does have that hallmark insane ship reprinting heal and solid he performance. 

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