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Final8ty

Ranked Battles with no DDS.

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I have been in quite a few now when not ofcourse playing my shima and all of them have ended up this way.

The battles have been far worse, there are no DDs to blame and no excuse for not pushing because of fear of DDs.

It shows many just don't know how to fight without them, no all sitting far out and sniping or all hiding behind rocks arcing over.

 

 

20180919_005312_PJSC034-Zao-1944_28_naval_mission.wowsreplay

Edited by Final8ty
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Was there any Zao those can double as DD in a pinch or maybe the players feared ships like Yamato? :Smile_teethhappy:

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40 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Was there any Zao those can double as DD in a pinch or maybe the players feared ships like Yamato? :Smile_teethhappy:

Or Minotaurs...

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1 hour ago, Final8ty said:

I have been in quite a few now when not of course playing my shima and all of them have ended up this way.

The battles have been far worse, there are no DDs to blame and no excuse for not pushing because of fear of DDs.

Its shows many just don't know how to fight without them, no all sitting far out and sniping or all hiding behind rocks arcing over.

 

For all the fear of any DD's torpedoes, DDs also perform a critical scouting role, revealing where most enemy ships are.  And I can't really blame people for being afraid to push into an area not knowing what lies behind that next island waiting to ambush them.

Arguably, cruisers with low concealments, such as Zaos, Worchesters, and Minotaurs should consider acting as scouts.  The problem is though that people playing cruisers have been conditioned to play a certain way that doesn't really include scouting as a secondary role.

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1 hour ago, Final8ty said:

I have been in quite a few now when not ofcourse playing my shima and all of them have ended up this way.

The battles have been far worse, there are no DDs to blame and no excuse for not pushing because of fear of DDs.

Its shows many just don't know how to fight without them, no all sitting far out and sniping or all hiding behind rocks arcinging over.

 

 

20180919_005312_PJSC034-Zao-1944_28_naval_mission.wowsreplay

None is almost as bad as too many. None and it is hard to move up because even the low detection cruisers have much larger detection ranges than DD's. Too many and it is hard to move up because it is torpedo soup. Two to three is perfect in random and I would guess that two, never saw more than that in the tier 8 ranked battles I played, would be perfect in ranked.

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Most BB's and CA/CL's refuse to function without their guinea pigs to find stuff for them to shoot at and take all the aggro.

Now you know which class has a spine in WoWs. :)

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I was in two games today in which our BB players were complaining about our team's dumb DD players losing the game for us.  In one of those games two DD's did go down in the first few minutes of the game, but I was at a different cap, so I don't know how it happened; but what really got me PO'd was looking at the mini-map and seeing that our two complaining battleship players (a Montana and a Yamato) had barely moved out of their spawn.  The other team's battleships came in closer and backed up their cruisers and destroyers.  The game was no contest.  I guess what also annoyed me was the Yamato player saved his star by surviving the longest.  I'd bet most of the damage he racked up was after the game was lost and the enemy was closing in on him making them easier targets to farm until he was overwhelmed. 

Edited by Pigus_Drunkus_Maximus

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It comes down to this, when there are no DDs no one wants to be the one to take on risk. Sure a mino has smoke but in ranked likely not. A cruiser is not really going to want to scout because that means pushing way up in front of your team and if spotted that makes whatever spotting you really close which means by bye cruiser.... deleted by BBs waiting to pouch. 

 

No BB is going to want to push up without spotting because if spotted it means the entire team is going to eat you before you can get away. 

 

DDs are made for spotted, they are hard to hit, have smoke, and can get away fast, that is why they are spotters. No other ship class can do it like they do. 

Edited by Slumlord_Cheeto

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I think I've only played one or two games in ranked this season without DD's.  If I'm playing the Worcester I don't have a problem spotting for my team.  If I'm playing the Des Moines I'm more cautious because there are usually other cruisers which can out spot me.  I always do a stats comparison with enemy ships of the same class before I enter the playing field.  If I have a spotting advantage I want to make use of it.

Edited by Pigus_Drunkus_Maximus
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I tried one battle in my radar Minotaur. The first zero DD game I'd had in ranked. Perhaps understandable.

Ranked matchmaking has been all over the place, 0 DD, 4 DD, 1 BB, 5 BB. Just awful. Paltry rewards, yet more T10 gameplay - I think I've had enough really.

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16 minutes ago, Slumlord_Cheeto said:

It comes down to this, when there are no DDs no one wants to be the one to take on risk. Sure a mino has smoke but in ranked likely not. A cruiser is not really going to want to scout because that means pushing way up in front of your team and if spotted that makes whatever spotting you really close which means by bye cruiser.... deleted by BBs waiting to pouch. 

 

No BB is going to want to push up without spotting because if spotted it means the entire team is going to eat you before you can get away. 

 

DDs are made for spotted, they are hard to hit, have smoke, and can get away fast, that is why they are spotters. No other ship class can do it like they do. 

Smoke! forget it and with the DDs having the lowest survivability  rate they are clearly not hard enough to hit :)

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4 hours ago, Crucis said:

For all the fear of any DD's torpedoes, DDs also perform a critical scouting role, revealing where most enemy ships are.  And I can't really blame people for being afraid to push into an area not knowing what lies behind that next island waiting to ambush them.

Arguably, cruisers with low concealments, such as Zaos, Worchesters, and Minotaurs should consider acting as scouts.  The problem is though that people playing cruisers have been conditioned to play a certain way that doesn't really include scouting as a secondary role.

Yup, radar cruiser head for the nearest cover and wait for others to spot. Been guilty of it myself, especially when playing USN cruisers as its not very forgiving if you get caught in the open.

Actually had  a game yesterday with no dds on Hotspot. We lost cause their bbs just charged A and blew the cruisers out of the water early.

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11 hours ago, Final8ty said:

I have been in quite a few now when not ofcourse playing my shima and all of them have ended up this way.

The battles have been far worse, there are no DDs to blame and no excuse for not pushing because of fear of DDs.

It shows many just don't know how to fight without them, no all sitting far out and sniping or all hiding behind rocks arcinging over.

 

 

20180919_005312_PJSC034-Zao-1944_28_naval_mission.wowsreplay

Wait wut - no-one to blame? 

After weeks of Crime and Punishment (Siberia), I'm surprised anyone wants to play DD - is this really a surprise?

 

Edited by Commander_367

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8 hours ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

Most BB's and CA/CL's refuse to function without their guinea pigs to find stuff for them to shoot at and take all the aggro.

Now you know which class has a spine in WoWs. :)

Eeez funny because it's true :)

8 hours ago, Pigus_Drunkus_Maximus said:

I was in two games today in which our BB players were complaining about our team's dumb DD players losing the game for us.  In one of those games two DD's did go down in the first few minutes of the game, but I was at a different cap, so I don't know how it happened; but what really got me PO'd was looking at the mini-map and seeing that our two complaining battleship players (a Montana and a Yamato) had barely moved out of their spawn.  The other team's battleships came in closer and backed up their cruisers and destroyers.  The game was no contest.  I guess what also annoyed me was the Yamato player saved his star by surviving the longest.  I'd bet most of the damage he racked up was after the game was lost and the enemy was closing in on him making them easier targets to farm until he was overwhelmed. 

Hmmm, people are still playing ranked?

Edited by Commander_367
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Just had a battle with 4 BB  2 CA/CL and 1 DD per side.

Same out come BBs and CA/CL moaning at each other to push and contest because one DD cant contest 3 caps.

And the only cap that was taken was the one i took.

BBs and CA/CL's must learn to adapt like us DDs.

 

Edited by Final8ty

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14 hours ago, Slumlord_Cheeto said:

It comes down to this, when there are no DDs no one wants to be the one to take on risk. Sure a mino has smoke but in ranked likely not. A cruiser is not really going to want to scout because that means pushing way up in front of your team and if spotted that makes whatever spotting you really close which means by bye cruiser.... deleted by BBs waiting to pouch. 

 

No BB is going to want to push up without spotting because if spotted it means the entire team is going to eat you before you can get away. 

 

DDs are made for spotted, they are hard to hit, have smoke, and can get away fast, that is why they are spotters. No other ship class can do it like they do. 

Spotting is the function of the ships least likely to be seen.

Most of the time this is indeed the role of the DDs, however, I would say that DDs being harder to hit is probably balanced by the fact that the enemy DD, CAs and BBs who have spotted them will all be firing from different angles at different times; no matter how fast and nimble you are, you're not going to outsmart a bullet (guess the film! :Smile_Default:). Add the fact that their HP is lower than other ships, and I really see no difference in a cruiser taking on the spotting role if there are no DDs. DDs on average do the least damage at tiers V-X and also have the lowest survivability across all 3 servers, if they were that hard to hit this wouldn't be the case.

 

I would use the same mantra given to the DD captains: know the composition of the enemy team, use the land for cover and always have an escape vector. If you go in without support of course you are going to die.

At least many cruisers will have radar to assist them rather than hinder them, as many DDs will probably operate around the range of radar to be most effective in their role, a scouting CA probably wouldn't have to (tier mismatches aside). :Smile_honoring:

Edited by _WaveRider_

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Cruisers have about the same concealment as BBs. If they up to spot for BBs they die.

Cruisers die to 2+ torpedo hits, so will fear a DD they cannot find, even with thought to general direction.

BBs will die to a good DD if he cannot get a bead on his general direction.

Without being able to losely place DDs the game is stagnated. We saw this in Tier 6 Ranked in spades, it shouldn't be shocking at this point.

Not understanding why demonstrates little knowledge of Cruisers and BBs.

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16 hours ago, Crucis said:

people playing cruisers have been conditioned to play a certain way that doesn't really include scouting

A good chunk of CB players are conditioned to do exactly that. Cruiser scouting is powerful and worthwhile even in games with DDs.

 

2 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

Cruisers have about the same concealment as BBs. If they up to spot for BBs they die.

That's only true for half of the cruisers at Tier X (Moskva/Stalingrad, Henri, Hindy). The other half (Zao, Worcester, Minotaur) have much smaller concealment ranges and/or stealth radar capabilities, making them extremely dangerous spotters. Des Moines and Salem are in the "maybe" zone.

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This is why many have adopted the Radio Location captain skill for my BBs. I hesitated as a BB main for a long time now it is indispensable and the most useful out of all the location metas.It never needs to reload and is always on. Even if I can't see it I know a threat is there which allows me to act independently from any cruiser or dd support. 

Edited by C_D

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