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JessieTheKitty

rip all sub haters

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1 hour ago, The_first_harbinger said:

Aw rip forum's favorite meme

Yeah, I don't think people so much hated subs, but more the constant threads asking for subs after WG had said no on subs. I was always against subs because of gameplay issues, but if WG thinks they can do it, I fully support seeing them in game. But only if they can balance them.

But we are going to have to find a new meme now...

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I have played just about every sub sim that exists and excelled at all of them. Stealth rules in submarine warfare. That said, I think they are making a HUGE mistake here. I came into the game for its' surface warfare content, which despite its' arcade style play is at least representative. This sub thing plus the CV rework will change the entire gameplay mechanic and will require larger maps to be viable. While I am open-minded about the game, there are limits to what can be done in a 20-minute game window with maximum speeds of around 34 knots for most surface vessels. WIP...

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And it will be replaced with how bad subs are, the mechanic, etc.  I don't think the people who want subs really understand how badly they'll play.

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1 hour ago, Wowzery said:

And it will be replaced with how bad subs are, the mechanic, etc.  I don't think the people who want subs really understand how badly they'll play.

This, how do you balance something that historically had 2 - 4 knot sustained speeds when submerged and 15 for the early subs & 20/25 knots for the later WWII era subs when surfaced speed when almost every thing else will be much faster? Ship speeds in the game are relatively close to historical speeds and buffing their speed so they can operate with the team turns them into underwater DD's. This is going to be a balancing nightmare to equal or exceed CV's.

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I think it will be very interesting concept to take a crack at. But heres something that hasnt been thought of. What if the subs are AI-controlled area denial ships that just patrol around the map?

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1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

Yeah, I don't think people so much hated subs, but more the constant threads asking for subs after WG had said no on subs. I was always against subs because of gameplay issues, but if WG thinks they can do it, I fully support seeing them in game. But only if they can balance them.

But we are going to have to find a new meme now...

The inclusion of submarines had been discussed since alpha and had always been a 'one day' thing. Balance issues, issues that needed to be addressed first and creating a whole new UI was the reason why WG said they wouldn't be in the game and why they haven't been included until now. The perceived hard stance against submarines by WG didn't come about until people started posting the Chieftain meme. 

shot-18_04.30_21_58.09-0398.thumb.jpg.57fd9c0898d22e31cad454dd45935b59.jpg

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23 minutes ago, JessieTheKitty said:

I think it will be very interesting concept to take a crack at. But heres something that hasnt been thought of. What if the subs are AI-controlled area denial ships that just patrol around the map?

Hmm that would discourage camping...

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Subs even more than CVs and destroyers do now, should encourage teamwork. Just as in real life, the lone ship is going to be vulnerable. The job of the DD is going to change and be more aligned with its traditional role as an escort, rather than a stealthy hunter-killer (which more-or-less mimicked the sub in the game).

If you watched the video you will realize that subs are going to be a long way off though. Right now they are just prototyping them for use in the Halloween event. 

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1 hour ago, JessieTheKitty said:

I think it will be very interesting concept to take a crack at. But heres something that hasnt been thought of. What if the subs are AI-controlled area denial ships that just patrol around the map?

Hmm, I like that idea.  Would be a nice feature to add to future Ops, controlling certain areas or knocking out certain communication buildings could affect how many there are, what they do...

Regardless, if they ever do become player-controlled, we'll have Noster's driving and Jingles' Cold Water landings all in one game. :)

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All my concerns and arguments against them still seem to be valid. But if they can balance them then sure, I suppose.
iChase has already listed all my problems with them.

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13 minutes ago, Chobittsu said:

All my concerns and arguments against them still seem to be valid. But if they can balance them then sure, I suppose.
iChase has already listed all my problems with them.

If they can balance them.

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1 minute ago, BrushWolf said:

If they can balance them.

Yeah, that's the challenge...
Worst part is it makes my and Aessaya's job a LOT harder.......

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4 hours ago, Chobittsu said:

Yeah, that's the challenge...
Worst part is it makes my and Aessaya's job a LOT harder.......

I mean people do give wg a lot of s%#^ for adding broken stuff to the fame that they think will be a nightmare (cough cough assashio, stalin, kron, salem, hara etc etc.) so far their recent balancing has been pretty good. But people for some reason point to cv's saying wg doesnt know how balance even though that was what like 3 years ago......

edit: like honestly guys comon..... stop giving WG s*&% with how bad they screwed up cv gameplay. Sure its broken but you also got to account how much WORSE it was back when WG initially released it when like one team could have a hakaryu and the other will have a friggin yamato. OR EVEN WORSE  a colorado. or how back when langleys and hoso's where able to man drop south carolina's to the point where they got owned............. If you guys even THINK for a moment how much WG improved this game you would re-think their capabilities of balancing.

Edited by JessieTheKitty

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4 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

If they can balance them.

Well, they've pretty much never been able to balance CVs from the first day of alpha testing until maybe 2019 many years later. What can possibly go wrong by introducing another difficult to implement and balance class?  :Smile_teethhappy:

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13 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

Subs even more than CVs and destroyers do now, should encourage teamwork. Just as in real life, the lone ship is going to be vulnerable. The job of the DD is going to change and be more aligned with its traditional role as an escort, rather than a stealthy hunter-killer (which more-or-less mimicked the sub in the game).

If you watched the video you will realize that subs are going to be a long way off though. Right now they are just prototyping them for use in the Halloween event. 

Thing is, DDs across the board got nerfed into the ground for doing exactly that, picking off the lone ship. I can't see this being anything but a caricature of the two extremes, where you have extreme stealth with extreme fragility and poor firing arcs.

Like CV, the only way to make more accessible is to basically lower the skill floor for the original thing and present it in an aesthetically different (but mechanically identical) package, and probably nerf it to where it's easy to play but has a low hard cap on performance.

15 hours ago, Wowzery said:

And it will be replaced with how bad subs are, the mechanic, etc.  I don't think the people who want subs really understand how badly they'll play.

Well, no, but if they need to get burned to find out that the pan is hot instead of listening to what we're saying, I guess that's going to happen.

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