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mustangman6579

Fairly sure my ranked season is already over.

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So, being that I work late, AND on the west coast. I can only get online in the late hours(10pm +). Because of that, there seems to be an abundance of sub 46% players on at that time. Everytime I hit rank 5, it was a loss. Now I am, in trap in the 10-6 vortex, with a plethora of loss record players, and i am only losing games. I am clear back to rank 8 already, and even getting the top spot cant save me as I am normally losing around 10-13 of the 15 games I play a day. I have been in rank 9 four times, and rank 5 four times. I honestly can't take this stupid yoyoing. Takes me a week+ to get to rank 6+, and 1 day to get back to rank 8.

 

How can this game be so one sided like this? A week+ to move up, but so far, 3 times now I've slid back to 8 or less in a day.  How can this be fixed?

 

A couple shots of some bad days to context. I should have gotten all 4. But the other 2 I was ragging too much to think about it. So far my largest loss streak i think was 9 in a row in ranked. 

shot-18.09.01_00.49.02-0662.jpg shot-18.09.14_01.49.25-0322.jpg

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It took me 90 games to reach rank 5, from r23, and 181 games from 5 to 1.

Ranked is yoyoing. What I basically learned is instead of taking risks is to farm damage, so that you save the star. It is not nice, but it is most effective, thus intended by WG since it never changed.

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15 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

It took me 90 games to reach rank 5, from r23, and 181 games from 5 to 1.

Ranked is yoyoing. What I basically learned is instead of taking risks is to farm damage, so that you save the star. It is not nice, but it is most effective, thus intended by WG since it never changed.

I reached rank 5 the first time in about 80 games or less. I now have something like 200 games, and keep sliding more and more back. 

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WG put the save a star in because of the outcry about doing well on a losing team, maybe it's time to remove it because it is driving poor behaviors now.

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Saving the star isnt the problem with ranked - it has always been about persistence and determination, where skill is a necessary but insufficient condition.  The issue is, too many players arent good enough to be at the tiers they are at, and/or havent learnt how to play those particular maps as part of a TEAM rather than a collection of solo players. This is not the fault of the save star system, given the exact same thing happens in random where being the top loser still means you lost. 

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7 minutes ago, Camo68 said:

WG put the save a star in because of the outcry about doing well on a losing team, maybe it's time to remove it because it is driving poor behaviors now.

Well, IMO something changed about who gets the star it seems. More often than not, the guy I see who hasn't done much all game, but lived to the end is somehow the one who gets the saved star. Until this season, I used to get it almost every lost game for brawling in with my BBs. But this season, something is missing. I can get 3 awards and 3 kills, but only be in third place for XP. IDK, maybe I am doing something wrong. 

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1 minute ago, mustangman6579 said:

Well, IMO something changed about who gets the star it seems. More often than not, the guy I see who hasn't done much all game, but lived to the end is somehow the one who gets the saved star. Until this season, I used to get it almost every lost game for brawling in with my BBs. But this season, something is missing. I can get 3 awards and 3 kills, but only be in third place for XP. IDK, maybe I am doing something wrong. 

I don't know how they calculate xp in ranked but anecdotally it doesn't seem to match randoms. 

The only time I have finished top of the team in a DD is basically capping all caps and getting High caliber. Spotting and capping only you are lucky to not be last on the team.

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Ranked would be more accurately called simply Rank.

I'm not a star saver, I'm not good enough to do it with any consistency. I don't play the ships that are best for doing it either. I go into every battle with the goal to win. Doesn't make one bit of diff as far as I can tell.

 I saved a star today on Sea of Fortune in Montana. Two of our three DDs charged into the A/B cap, got badly mauled. Our third DD decides to try for C but backs out and spends most of the match playing peekaboo. The first red ship spotted was a Yammie, bow on to me. I got one quick shot off before he was so close to an island I didn't have a shot. Later I nearly deleted the Worchester but RNG says nope. I'm the one that capped C, I finally got the Mino, and was swinging my rear turrets for the Worchester at less than 2km, when I rammed the Yammy, ending my game. Had I timed it slightly better I'd have had a triple kill. I was sure going for it. It would have left each team with a single ship, a DD for us vs a GK, and enough time for our DD to carry. So what do I get for it...

 I get accused in game chat of only trying to save a star. I got a PM from our Moskva player telling me off for not doing anything and only worrying about myself. That I need to just stay out of rank

 Solo cap, 120k dam, 71k spotting, 3 of our 5 kills, 2 mil tanked. Just an easy mode, rear camping star saver here.

 The mode is garbage because a large percentage of the players are garbage, both in skill level and personality. The implementation is garbage as XP calculation is a massive secret. Ships have hidden base XP modifiers as well. See Sims as the most blatant and documented example of hidden modifiers. Doing well isn't rewarded in any way unless you can outright carry. Saving a star isnt a reward for good play, its a band-aid for crap design.

 Garbage in, Garbage Out

 

Edited by Ares1967

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13 minutes ago, Camo68 said:

I don't know how they calculate xp in ranked but anecdotally it doesn't seem to match randoms. 

The only time I have finished top of the team in a DD is basically capping all caps and getting High caliber. Spotting and capping only you are lucky to not be last on the team.

I literally had a game in my shim where i got 5 kills, and 3 caps, and STILL wasn't first place. 

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Just now, Ares1967 said:

 

 I got a PM from our Moskva player telling me off for not doing anything and only worrying about myself. That I need to just stay out of rank

 

Had something like this happen to me. From the yammy player than spent 90% of the game on the 1 line. The only enemy ship that was even near the one line, left it in under the 5m mark. Meaning he had spent almost 20m on the 1 line for a ship that had left it a full 10m+ before he did. 

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you can tell the star savers. anyone showing up in a zao, hiv, or conq is there to save a star. if this unifies with a win so much the better for everyone, but if not, dont expect team play.

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3 hours ago, Ares1967 said:

Ships have hidden base XP modifiers as well. See Sims as the most blatant and documented example of hidden modifiers.

It's difficult to quote the Sims in this example as she isn't eligible for Ranked, being neither a Tier 8 nor a Tier 10 ship. If there are other ships you know are modified in the same way, please feel free to name them.

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2 hours ago, monpetitloup said:

you can tell the star savers. anyone showing up in a zao, hiv, or conq is there to save a star. if this unifies with a win so much the better for everyone, but if not, dont expect team play.

Not me, when I show up in Zao I come with the same intentions as with my other IJN CAs, to support my team and win. The stealth, main guns, good torps,  as well as often reasonable durability are what I value in the IJN CA line as well as the history behind the mid tier ships in the line. I often feel like I can do a better job in supporting the DDs on my teams if I can stealthily follow them and help them ambush the other DDs. Although Mogami with the 15x 155mm gun’s is the one that is particularly good at doing that job lol, but Zao is proving she can do reasonable amount of such work. And the “don’t chase after me as I slip away behind an island Torps” for BBs are fun as well.

They are also great fire starters on enemy BBs, and their HE and AP can work over enemy CAs well enough, so I feel well rounded.bonly thing you lack is Radar, but at least cat fighters and hydro help make up for it a fair amount.

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3 hours ago, mustangman6579 said:

 But this season, something is missing. I can get 3 awards and 3 kills, but only be in third place for XP. IDK, maybe I am doing something wrong. 

Awards and kills don't save your star, only massive amounts of damage.

IMO, the problem is, you have peiple farming damage right from the get-go, instead of when they realise they're going to lose. They literally don't care about wins, because they know that, as long as they can stay in one place by saving stars, eventually they'll get a team that can carry them, and they'll advance.

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Quote

Awards and kills don't save your star, only massive amounts of damage.

IMO, the problem is, you have peiple farming damage right from the get-go, instead of when they realise they're going to lose. They literally don't care about wins, because they know that, as long as they can stay in one place by saving stars, eventually they'll get a team that can carry them, and they'll advance.

If you're good enough to consistently farm massive amounts of damage to save a star almost every game you're good enough to win.  People should stop looking at the save a star system as an excuse.  No one seems to want to acknowledge the things that earn a lot of XP are the same things that help win games.  Also, the idea that someone hides until the end then farms a bunch of damage and saves a star is nonsense.  You can't farm 180K of damage outnumbered 6 to 1.   Its not potato players either, you play against just as many potatoes as you might have on your team. 

You're playing against players that all have the same skill as you, more or less.  You won't excel in that environment because you're only average (at best, or a potato at worst).  You're going to win as much as you lose and its really hard to make progress like that.  Its a grind.  You have to accept that going in.

Me, I'm an average player on a good day so I don't play much, if any ranked.  If you want to make a serious attempt you better be ready to grind out 300-500 games (or more).  That's not for me.  If its your thing, good luck to you, and congrats to everyone that did mange to rank out. :Smile_honoring:  

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

It's difficult to quote the Sims in this example as she isn't eligible for Ranked, being neither a Tier 8 nor a Tier 10 ship. If there are other ships you know are modified in the same way, please feel free to name them.

 Actually it's quite easy to use Sims as as an example. Sims is renowned for her star saving xp modifier from a previous season. Further I have the Sims and play it often. It generates XP like no other ship. 

 You have access to the search feature the same as I. There have been multiple threads on the subject. My call out of WGings Rank mode is on point even if no other ship has a hidden modifier. WGings refusal to be open about game mechanics means they cant be absolutely confirmed, nor can they be absolutely denied.

 

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46 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

Awards and kills don't save your star, only massive amounts of damage.

IMO, the problem is, you have peiple farming damage right from the get-go, instead of when they realise they're going to lose. They literally don't care about wins, because they know that, as long as they can stay in one place by saving stars, eventually they'll get a team that can carry them, and they'll advance.

And I think this is the essence of why many people dislike the Save a Star mechanic. 

Fortunately someone has done the math and it shows that if you play to win and have a reasonable 55% win rate, you will play approx 322 games to get from Rank 10 to Rank 1.  This is if you save a star 10% of the time.

If you have a 50% win rate and you play to save a star 30% of the time, you'll get there in roughly the same amount of time, 314 games.  Move down to a 45% win rate and you need to save a star 40% of the time and it takes slightly longer to get to Rank 1. 

What would be interesting is a simulation where most people play to Save a Star.  I suspect the games would be a little longer but the better skilled players would end up winning and saving stars.  My hypothesis is that too many 50%+ players are playing to win.  The less than best players are weeded out leaving the good players on the winning team and a weaker player on the losing team saving a star.  Of course this isn't a larger percentage of the games played but I can see that it may be enough to make it very frustrating for the above average players that are playing to win.

For the record, I'm agnostic about keeping or losing the Save a Star rule.

 

 

Edited by ClassicLib

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28 minutes ago, Ares1967 said:

Sims is renowned for her star saving xp modifier from a previous season.

Previous, yes, but we need to deal with the now and with the future.

I currently am personally in favour of a suggestion I saw elsewhere that defeats should not LOSE a star. You win, you advance; you lose, you stay put.

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6 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Previous, yes, but we need to deal with the now and with the future.

I currently am personally in favour of a suggestion I saw elsewhere that defeats should not LOSE a star. You win, you advance; you lose, you stay put.

The problem with that is people would rank out too early, and soon not enough players will be playing to even make a game. 

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5 hours ago, Camo68 said:

WG put the save a star in because of the outcry about doing well on a losing team, maybe it's time to remove it because it is driving poor behaviors now.

No, what they did was put in save a star and REMOVED the “free” star you got every time you ranked up. 

That free star made it much less frustrating, as it made yo-yoing much less frustrating. 

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if you lose back to r6 every time you reach r5, you arent at the level of r5 gameplay yet

if you cant maintain 60% WR in r6 bracket, you probably cant fit into r5 bracket anyways....

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The only issue I have withthe OP's post is, he thinks it's because of the TIME OF DAY...

hehehehhehehehehe

(HINT: that happens all day long!)

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1 hour ago, Slimeball91 said:

If you're good enough to consistently farm massive amounts of damage to save a star almost every game you're good enough to win. 

They are, if they put in the effort. And you don't necessarily need massive amounts of damage really, just enough. And if you're farming damage on a team where it seems like a loss right off the hop, the bar may not be that high.

Quote

 

People should stop looking at the save a star system as an excuse.

I'm not making an excuse, just telling the OP how he can perform well and still not win or save a star.

We all know Ranked is more about endurance than skill, it's also a race against the clock.

Knowing that the ultimate goal is to get to Rank 1, (not to win a certain amount of games) which is more efficient? Playing to win, and experiencing the rollercoaster? Or just maintain and wait to be carried? I know which one will likely have better XP/credit rewards, especially if you're not a great player.

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This "Ranked" is not a measure of skill whatsoever. In a 1vs1 game where someone will lose it is a fact you have a 50/50 chance thats it. You guys are a testament to that. So if your going into it with the quaint notion that it somehow reflects on your personal game play get over it. This is nothing more than Random battles with 7 players per team. All you can do is play hard like you normally do and try your best. Personally I like the smaller teams. I have purposed a different way to measure, One's<, personal achievements which I think the only way to is to pit a person against gradually harder bots in different ever changing scenarios that a single player must overcome. So in the end it is only, YOU, and how you manipulate the game you are in at the time which will determine your perceived "Skill" level. I don't know how else it could be done....just like gradually harder levels of Pac-Man or Donkey Kong. My 2 cents...

Image result for pacman vs donkey kong 

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