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HallaSnackbar

An average CV captain's opinions on the "rework"

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So it is my understanding that the reason for this rework was to make them more usable and attractive to the more average players and less "op" in the hands of the gifted multi talkers out there.  I figured if my skill level is the group they are shooting for my opinion should count right?  

My credentials as an average CV captain are pretty much well average.  I ground all the way to the midway and yes I own a saipan.  I can strafe, manual drop with torps and fire bombers.  I have descent map awareness, I know which ships to hit and which to avoid in all tiers.  I can spot a new inexperienced CV captain a mile away and dominate him however I am not a natural multi tasker and can just as easily get dominated by one of the true CV sevants.  I do not spend enough time telling my team how best to defend themselves against the enemy CV, not because I dont know what to tell them but because I am tired of them not listening then whining at me for not "protecting " them when they sail off by themselves and get deleted.  Oh and my win % is between 50 and 65% in most of my cv's, about the same as most of my other non CV ships which I play just as much.  For these reasons I would consider myself and average CV player but enough with that, let's get to the meat and potatoes of this post.

In my opinion this rework (and I understand it is not complete,  I am simply commenting on what has been proposed so far) is unnecessarily heavy handed.  They essentially took a sledgehammer to a task that required a scalpel.   How so?  Let me explain.  First they wanted to eliminate endless spotting, check, valid point I get it.  Next they wanted to lessen the ability to delete ships in a single salvo, eh ok well other ships can capitalize on a mistake and delete you in one salvo but w/e I'll go with it.  Now they also want to make the CV easier to play and not require such a high level of multi tasking so that it is harder for one really good captain to dominate the other CV and have such a huge single impact on a match, ok, I'll bite.  So how do we accomplish all this and maintain at least some resemblance of what they once were?  Here goes;

First, get rid of fighters as they are.  Make them an aa buff that has a finite time limit and can be assigned to a group of friendly ships with a cooldown.  This eliminates the endless spotting and drastically reduces the amount of multi tasking required.  It also prevents an opposing CV from completely dominating his/her lesser skilled competition. 

Next , lower the alpha damage of both dive and torp bombers but increase flooding and fire chance,  decrease service time and increase flight speed.  This lessens the ability to 1 shot any ship and makes poor drops less detrimental to the newer captains allowing them to improve their skills at dropping as well.

Beyond that, leave them alone.  Keep manual bomber drops in the t6 and up tiers and leave t4-5 just the way they are 

So there you have it, feel free to bring the fire and pitchforks.   I know there are still going to be a great deal of very dominant captains who will hate this too, quite frankly because it will make them less dominant. 

Your average CV captain signing out, peace.

 

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Have a plus one for making me feel like I'm not a complete madman because I've been saying some of the same damn stuff for months. 

I disagree on fighters though. Had a match today where it was my brand new Hak, with all stock modules vs a fully upgraded one, all I had was the two modernization's to upgrade my fighter DPS and HP.  We both tried to use strafe, and while we always had the other guy dead to rates, they pretty much were all RNG trolled that at most, we took out 1-2 planes from a squadron. We still used our fighters, but the focus was off them and more on our attacks. The battles with them became mostly point and click, at which point it was about who picked a fight in he right area at the right time, we weren't deleting attack planes left and right, it was an actual match of wits, tactic and aim. And it was fun. Nerf the strafing, heavily, that what we had is actually more the good RNG at best, or just a debuff to a group of bombers accuracy (as in all the squadrons together,or any number higher than one) and have some kind of refill system like what they talk about for the rework to solve the plane loss issue, your golden. Then just drop the spotting ranges by air. CV, BB, and CA/L is you want, the only one truly plagued by plane spotting is really DD's, at which point they drop aerial spotting on them to 1 km or less, that pretty much solves that. Encourages AA of to maintain stealth, at 1 km spotting range, that would mean you spot 2x2 km on a map that's usually 36x36 km - 45x45 km, meaning 3.63.6 km -4.5x4.5 km squares, meaning, you can fly through the square and miss it. Even lower to .5 km so it's 1x1 km spotting if they want. It's far from the first time they've messed with ship detection one way or another, like Pensacola.

 

Makes fighters more about defense, you can be more aggressive, try and find the attacking planes earlier to work on downing them, wait by a BB to debuff the attack, maybe knock a couple down with strafe combined with the ships AA, solves scouting and the skill gap. 

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Trouble is it isn't how hard they are to learn it is to do with the fact they are far to powerful to the point that having and not having a good CV player determines the out come of far to many matches at higher tiers. There OP state is shown by the fact that several Elite CV players have 80% to 95% win rates in them and that should never happen in a game where all classes should be as equally influential on a match as can be done.

However in spite of all this it is not the reason they are being reworked. It is because they are far to unpopular in the game because the RTS top down basically 8bit mode you have to play is boring as all hell and doesn't fit into the action focused style every other class is built around. They need to retain some micro management and make it feel like your controlling a ship not just planes but the action focused game style the reworked showed is what is needed for the planes to make the game play fun and more engaging then simply pointing and clicking.

They have to make it fun and enjoyable to play so players will play it so they can get enough data to balance the CVs properly around the other classes. The only other option is to remove them because the RTS style is far to OP, unpopular and boring.

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After taking part in the test run I am standing by my original post.  The rework is a joke,  I would rather play a t5 CV in it's current format than a midway in the new verson.

Edited by HallaSnackbar
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On 9/15/2018 at 2:11 AM, QinsCoCoPops said:

Trouble is it isn't how hard they are to learn it is to do with the fact they are far to powerful to the point that having and not having a good CV player determines the out come of far to many matches at higher tiers. There OP state is shown by the fact that several Elite CV players have 80% to 95% win rates in them and that should never happen in a game where all classes should be as equally influential on a match as can be done.

However in spite of all this it is not the reason they are being reworked. It is because they are far to unpopular in the game because the RTS top down basically 8bit mode you have to play is boring as all hell and doesn't fit into the action focused style every other class is built around. They need to retain some micro management and make it feel like your controlling a ship not just planes but the action focused game style the reworked showed is what is needed for the planes to make the game play fun and more engaging then simply pointing and clicking.

They have to make it fun and enjoyable to play so players will play it so they can get enough data to balance the CVs properly around the other classes. The only other option is to remove them because the RTS style is far to OP, unpopular and boring.

Go back to the battleship forum. They started this mess the get to suffer from like everyone else. If CVs are or were OP it’s because of the reality that AirPower trumps SeaPower in every conceivable way. 

 

Edited by GreyFox78659
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On 11/12/2018 at 6:58 AM, GreyFox78659 said:

Go back to the battleship forum. They started this mess the get to suffer from like everyone else. If CVs are or were OP it’s because of the reality that AirPower trumps SeaPower in every conceivable way. 

 

Blah blah blah blah.................

 

This is a game not real life everything must be balanced and if you don't like it then this is not the game for you..... I hear hello kitty Island adventure would be perfect for you.

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12 hours ago, QinsCoCoPops said:

Blah blah blah blah.................

 

This is a game not real life everything must be balanced and if you don't like it then this is not the game for you..... I hear hello kitty Island adventure would be perfect for you.

Real life balanced? Seriously? This whole REAL WORLD mess was created by WG.NET making changes and to balance it all, the fact that they screwed it up from day one is NOT the fault of any player that likes CV's... or dislikes them come to that. There were problems with other ships and they were beefed up or nerfed, depending on the ship, but the problem with CV's was that too many were saying it was too powerful or, the CV was too hard to drive... so they fixed it... a new game play to making the arcade gamers and the console players happy... and as for everyone else, better AA ...

But lets be honest. My non CV ships do not have unlimited hit points... so how can a CV have unlimited planes?

They have crippled CV's for the NON CV players... to make it "fair" and they have enhanced the CV's so the thousands of children can enjoy flying planes around without needing to really THINK... the REAL CV drivers like myself will NEVER accpet what they are doing, and in fact, if the CV's are now able to sink a ship load more ships then the simple fact is... people will stop playing...

You see, the game isn't real life... when WG.NET starts to "re-balance" the game play, then a lot of people are going to be unhappy.... you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time... this will cost WG.NET a ton of good players, who will either give up playing entirely, or play T1 to T3 only. 

I'm betting many many people will demand a tick box to opt out of playing with CV's at any tier. They wanted more CV players.... fine... lets the kids have their fun, but the adults will not want to play with the kiddies with their flying warships with unlimited planes... the reasons for the changes have morphed over the  months... the real reason, in the end, they want to sell more premium CV's...

Doesn't natter what the loyal warship gamer thinks...

End of the day, the old problems will be gone and replaced with a whole new set of problems... how many AA consumables will it take to stay alive, that consumable is not obsolete... as are any spotting planes and catapult launched fighters because the new AA will shoot them down... and in the original video... they didn't have ANY answers on how the game play would work, they winged in in that video... to a question about ships following the empty planes back to the carrier... "maybe they can fly high so they cannot be observed"... so now.... warships cannot... no... are not allowed to shoot these planes down....

problems .... and then the bugs... there are ALWAYS bugs with any MAJOR rework.... its a not a CV REWORK as they claim... its a major game rework, CV's.... (with flying warships now) AA rework, consumable rework (the AA consumable is redundant now) and what about those ships with hardly any AA... The Musashi has hardly ANY AA.... sure, in a clan battle or ranked, you MIGHT get a few warships to sail with her to look after her.... but what about Random or Co-Op games where the word "team" is used but doesn’t really apply... And that will be MURDER in ranked battles....

You see... a MAJOR game rework.... not only to the ships, but the modes of play will need to be changed as well. Musashi owners will be screaming blue bloody murder in Co-Op games....

WG.NET is about to open a hornets nest... they had NO ANSWERS in the first video.... and while they THINK they have it right thanks to the "feed back"... have they even THOUGHT about the modes of play and how the CV's will wreak hell in the game... if your ship doesn't have decent AA, no one will drive them... replacing one problem with another... not much, if any, thought has been given to the future... read my signature to get my prediction on how this will turn out.

See, major GAME rework... when were they going to admit this?

 

Edited by kiwi1960

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Played the ranked sprint in my bogue from start to 1.  I can attest to the fact that the inability to straiff,  manual bomb or torpedo drop that tier 4 and 5 posess coupled with the relatively small number of plane reserves keep the cv's at that tier from dominating,  or having an excessive impact on the game.  This was confirmed by watching a well know and very talented CV captain on you tube get so frustrated at his inability to carry bad teams with his t5cv that he switched to other ship types.

As much as I would hate the dumber down controls I would still rather play my midway like my vogue than play it the way this new rework plays.  And yes I have been participating in the first and second beta tests.  They are utter garbage. 

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One thing I will say I realized during sprint was the dumbed down controls freed me up to communicate more with my team and when they actually listened we typically won.  It kind of puts the CV in the quarterback position.  Alone I cant do much but I am in a great spot to call the shots and have a massive impact through teamwork. 

Edited by HallaSnackbar

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On 11/13/2018 at 9:32 PM, kiwi1960 said:

Real life balanced? Seriously? This whole REAL WORLD mess was created by WG.NET making changes and to balance it all, the fact that they screwed it up from day one is NOT the fault of any player that likes CV's... or dislikes them come to that. There were problems with other ships and they were beefed up or nerfed, depending on the ship, but the problem with CV's was that too many were saying it was too powerful or, the CV was too hard to drive... so they fixed it... a new game play to making the arcade gamers and the console players happy... and as for everyone else, better AA ...

But lets be honest. My non CV ships do not have unlimited hit points... so how can a CV have unlimited planes?

They have crippled CV's for the NON CV players... to make it "fair" and they have enhanced the CV's so the thousands of children can enjoy flying planes around without needing to really THINK... the REAL CV drivers like myself will NEVER accpet what they are doing, and in fact, if the CV's are now able to sink a ship load more ships then the simple fact is... people will stop playing...

You see, the game isn't real life... when WG.NET starts to "re-balance" the game play, then a lot of people are going to be unhappy.... you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time... this will cost WG.NET a ton of good players, who will either give up playing entirely, or play T1 to T3 only. 

I'm betting many many people will demand a tick box to opt out of playing with CV's at any tier. They wanted more CV players.... fine... lets the kids have their fun, but the adults will not want to play with the kiddies with their flying warships with unlimited planes... the reasons for the changes have morphed over the  months... the real reason, in the end, they want to sell more premium CV's...

Doesn't natter what the loyal warship gamer thinks...

End of the day, the old problems will be gone and replaced with a whole new set of problems... how many AA consumables will it take to stay alive, that consumable is not obsolete... as are any spotting planes and catapult launched fighters because the new AA will shoot them down... and in the original video... they didn't have ANY answers on how the game play would work, they winged in in that video... to a question about ships following the empty planes back to the carrier... "maybe they can fly high so they cannot be observed"... so now.... warships cannot... no... are not allowed to shoot these planes down....

problems .... and then the bugs... there are ALWAYS bugs with any MAJOR rework.... its a not a CV REWORK as they claim... its a major game rework, CV's.... (with flying warships now) AA rework, consumable rework (the AA consumable is redundant now) and what about those ships with hardly any AA... The Musashi has hardly ANY AA.... sure, in a clan battle or ranked, you MIGHT get a few warships to sail with her to look after her.... but what about Random or Co-Op games where the word "team" is used but doesn’t really apply... And that will be MURDER in ranked battles....

You see... a MAJOR game rework.... not only to the ships, but the modes of play will need to be changed as well. Musashi owners will be screaming blue bloody murder in Co-Op games....

WG.NET is about to open a hornets nest... they had NO ANSWERS in the first video.... and while they THINK they have it right thanks to the "feed back"... have they even THOUGHT about the modes of play and how the CV's will wreak hell in the game... if your ship doesn't have decent AA, no one will drive them... replacing one problem with another... not much, if any, thought has been given to the future... read my signature to get my prediction on how this will turn out.

See, major GAME rework... when were they going to admit this?

 

Planes are CV ammunition not hit points and every other ship has unlimited ammo and so should CVs.......

If this change and all the changes to come make you this upset then perhaps you should go play MMO games that never change........... Oh wait there are none that haven't changed because ones that didn't died.

You talk about "Kiddies" and claim your an "Adult" yet your rant shows the opposite......

You haven't even tried the new rework...... if you had then you would have seen that you still need to think about your targets and no you can't destroy ships easy......

If you can't accept the change then leave no one will care......

It is doubtful the game will lose many players due to this change because not enough play CVs anyway and those that leave will be replaced easy enough......

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On 11/15/2018 at 11:10 PM, QinsCoCoPops said:

Planes are CV ammunition not hit points and every other ship has unlimited ammo and so should CVs.......

If this change and all the changes to come make you this upset then perhaps you should go play MMO games that never change........... Oh wait there are none that haven't changed because ones that didn't died.

You talk about "Kiddies" and claim your an "Adult" yet your rant shows the opposite......

You haven't even tried the new rework...... if you had then you would have seen that you still need to think about your targets and no you can't destroy ships easy......

If you can't accept the change then leave no one will care......

It is doubtful the game will lose many players due to this change because not enough play CVs anyway and those that leave will be replaced easy enough......

Really? PERSONAL insults from you? My insults were directed at no one but yours were. I'd complain to the staff but they never do anything anyhow, this board has a reputation for being a flaming board, as you have proved.

Yes.... shells and torps on ships are unlimited, but there is only ever going to be one ship... while unlimited planes will be there. That would be like getting unlimited HP in your non CV ship to go out and cause as much damage as you can. The nature of unlimited shells and torps is a requirement, a necessity of the game to keep it interesting. If destroyers fire their torps and then that was it, and if shells ran out, then pretty soon, the game would get boring... but no one has ever "driven" a torp or shell... right... so your argument falls flat. People have driven warships with limited HP and despite the unlimited shells and torps, they can be sunk. The ship is the platform, it has limited health.

Now... you can drive an unlimited supply of planes with unlimited bombs, torps and (soon) rockets which makes the game... totally unfair in favour of the CV.

I'd love a DD, CL or BB with unlimited HP. That is basically what this flying warship gives the players.

The defence of your ship is always a major concern, you protect it from being sunk, but the flying warship has no such concerns... this is why the game play is directed to kiddies.... they can fly attack and never need to worry about running out of planes or bombs or anything. As long as your team protects your actual CV, then they can all hold back and allow the CV to take out the opposition... I can see how that might be fun for the kiddies, but everyone else is going to get pretty upset.

WG.NET has *NEVER* gotten anything right the first time... ships are still being nerfed or buffed now. The problems they claim were there with the CV's before will still be there, only different problems and different voices. I see a few of the more honest Community Contributors are getting concerned about the big mistake WG.NET is about to make.

 

BTW, planes are NOT CV ammunition... they are the CV's main guns... they fire bombs or shells. Had you had that thinking in the real Navy during WW2 you would have been drummed out of the navy PDQ... as a famous US Army General once said (I forget his name) ... it takes no time to build a plane... but it takes at least 20 years to grow a new pilot. Your flawed pilot logic extends to game payers WG.NET has now... you want them to treat their customers with that much contempt? To tell them, like it or go away??? Its easy to see you have never spent any money on this game... or, if you have, then ... you must be VERY young. You think people who have invested money in this game, they they OWN (because of the money paid to WG.NET) would just walk away without a fight? Your logic should have been used before.... OK. CANCEL THE CV REWORK.... according to QinsCoCoPops .... the ones demanding a changes don't matter... if they don;t like the CV's as they are now (including him) then they can LEAVE!!!!!

Me.... I'm happy with the CV's the way they are now. If you're not... then, take your own advice and leave.... plenty more will take your place.

Edited by kiwi1960
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