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Billy2Hawks

This Game, yet another MM rant

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8 games in a row 7 of which were not even close. 6 of which half my team was dead within 5 minutes. 4 of which the team ignored caps and seemed to be just sailing around.

I will reiterate it again. There is a reason this game cannot retain many players past tier 6 and MM is why. It really sucks getting put in to a game in which the distribution of players will almost guarantee a loss. I have wasted 2 hours of my time trying to get at least one win and MM has thrown me matches in which I stood 0 chance of having any sort of competitive play. I could do all the damage I want, but it will not fix the fact that in at least 75% of my battles, we were down by at least 5 ships before hitting the 5 minute mark.

What keeps people coming back to play a game is a challenge. 90% of my games up to this point in my day have not been a challenge. There has been way too much stick and not enough carrot.

I mean I just came off of a 25 day break because of this very same thing. I had become so frustrated with attempting to get ahead in this game, to have it continually kick me in the nethers. I am now considering a 45 - 60 day break. After that, it will be not coming back.

80% of my clan has not logged in for over 30 days. For one of them, the last conversation I had was, "Where is everybody". I had to tell them the game has a high turnover rate. I have not seen them since.

I don't know how to fix this, and I am not entirely sure it is my problem to fix. I mean how can you fix what you have absolutely no control over. You come to the forums and so many of the players put so much stock into win rate and damage. Neither of those are possible when MM puts you into fights where your team melts so fast the possibility of attaining them are near impossible. This sort of thing is what drove me away from WoT. I am pretty sure this is why people resort to XVM, because they want to know if they are wasting another 10 - 20 minutes of their free time.

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Isn't the whole issue that there is only a MM with relation to ship tiers but not pilot skill rating?  

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Problem is not exactly the MM, it’s the decay or morals and intelligence of people these days. Take the chat for example, they use chat I would have gotten my mouth washed out with soap for using, now lids use such language continuously along with their parents. Kids today are often taught nothing, no respect, no disaplone, no work ethic, no drive, and barely taught to even  read or write sadly.

Then when they are confronted with games that take some teamwork and study to be effective in it, they respond with ignorance, laziness, profanity, and hate.

Today in Ranked I spotted enemy team and kept them spotted much of the battle, but no focus fire or much of any fire was directed at the enemy, only my occasional Torps hit the enemy. Layed smoke for then and patrolled for enemy Torps, tried to help cap bases. Honestly the frustration of Ranked is the fact people today just do not want to have team work, don’t want to study, and if team players try to help them they are completely clueless on what to do with such help except stay at it in a puzzled manner.

If this is any indication of the future, then outlook is bleak to say the least.

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The mirror matchmaking was a joke. Its helpful for radar ships, but it doesn't go far enough. They need to add elo based matchmaking to the game. teams should be matched by an elo system so that not all the good players end up on one side. 

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7 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Problem is not exactly the MM, it’s the decay or morals and intelligence of people these days. Take the chat for example, they use chat I would have gotten my mouth washed out with soap for using, now lids use such language continuously along with their parents. Kids today are often taught nothing, no respect, no disaplone, no work ethic, no drive, and barely taught to even  read or write sadly.

Then when they are confronted with games that take some teamwork and study to be effective in it, they respond with ignorance, laziness, profanity, and hate.

Today in Ranked I spotted enemy team and kept them spotted much of the battle, but no focus fire or much of any fire was directed at the enemy, only my occasional Torps hit the enemy. Layed smoke for then and patrolled for enemy Torps, tried to help cap bases. Honestly the frustration of Ranked is the fact people today just do not want to have team work, don’t want to study, and if team players try to help them they are completely clueless on what to do with such help except stay at it in a puzzled manner.

If this is any indication of the future, then outlook is bleak to say the least.

I really don't think WoWs is a studied microcosm of moral decay; I think that's going a little too far.

Do people write salty, foul stuff? Yeah, they do. Is it in any way something new to this world? Absolutely not; the medium has just changed from generations past, and I don't think it comes close to painting an accurate picture of an entire generation or generations of individuals.

But you're correct -- the issue is that this game is deceptively complex. It takes serious time and effort to "git gud" and the average player who just loads up and wants to go pew-pew in his shooty boats doesn't really care about the intricacies of angling, AP vs. HE and when to use it, hell, even that deepwater torps can't hit other DDs. Players can buy a high tier ship nearly off the bat and get dropped into Tier X games with a Tier VIII ship, and be a complete and total detriment to your team.

Moreover, until recently Wargaming didn't really have much in the way of tutorials (sure didn't when I started playing), so you're basically just tossed to the wolves for the first 1,000 matches or so until all the details start to form a cohesive whole in your mind.  

The problem really occurs when dedicated, learned players are teamed up with the average (or below) Joe or Jane on a regular basis -- the lopsided loses and victories get old, quick. The game gets boring, and you play matches hoping that this one will be a challenge, that you'll have support, and the eleven other people on your team have a rudimentary understanding of how the game works.

When it doesn't happen, well, it's easy to logout and play something else. When it continuously doesn't happen, it becomes easier to log out for the final time.

I do think some changes need to be done to matchmaking to make this game viable and interesting in the long term.

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Honestly I stopped playing today because of this very reason.. It seems like the past 2 weeks have been exceptionally trashy players.. 5 games in a row on my tier 5 I did 150k damage, and despite that in a tier V I'm still the lone survivor up against 4 full health enemies..

out of hundreds of games I have a 75+% win rate on my Giulio Cesare.. by far my most favorite ship.. Yet in the past 4 days... I have about a 2% w/r with it because of just how horribly crap my teams have been.

World of Warships seriously needs a hidden MMR based off of win rates, and stats to find some middle ground MMR rating for each individual. This way it should create a situation where most games are players around your skill level, and it'll be less frustrating as a whole. In theory.. some games it works wonderfully, some games it doesn't.. but I think it would work for WoWs.

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I hate when this happens, but the two things that yank my chain are CVs that don't scout with their planes, but try and do some kind of CV snipe or hover around the flank looking for a vulnerable ship, meanwhile the enemy CV is actively scouting and now we are down a few ships....  AND DDs that don't scout...they are trying to stay back and use their guns, not moving forward and scouting...and I understand radar danger etc, but usually you spot those ships BEFORE they are in radar range and then drive your DD accordingly.  Nothing worse than getting the crap shot out of you, not seeing the bad guy because their DD is with in its detect range spotting, and your dying.... its when i get lit and say stuff in chat I shouldn't...

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1 hour ago, Billy2Hawks said:

I don't know how to fix this, and I am not entirely sure it is my problem to fix. I mean how can you fix what you have absolutely no control over. You come to the forums and so many of the players put so much stock into win rate and damage. Neither of those are possible when MM puts you into fights where your team melts so fast the possibility of attaining them are near impossible. This sort of thing is what drove me away from WoT. I am pretty sure this is why people resort to XVM, because they want to know if they are wasting another 10 - 20 minutes of their free time.

I hear you.

Look at it from the point of WG... they have an impossible conundrum to solve; the best they can do is ameliorate things, somewhat.

My own way with dealng with the aggravation WoWs can cause is to step back and get "zen" about it:

--learn from the mistakes you made

--stop playing after 3 losses as its hurricane Losing Streak bearing in

--Flip to Coop to blow off some steam and still play the ships you love

--If it gets really aggravating step back and take a break. I just did, for almost 2 months. (Still love the game)

Fair Seas mate

Edited by Stauffenberg44
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58 minutes ago, HTSMetal said:

I really don't think WoWs is a studied microcosm of moral decay; I think that's going a little too far.

Do people write salty, foul stuff? Yeah, they do. Is it in any way something new to this world? Absolutely not; the medium has just changed from generations past, and I don't think it comes close to painting an accurate picture of an entire generation or generations of individuals.

But you're correct -- the issue is that this game is deceptively complex. It takes serious time and effort to "git gud" and the average player who just loads up and wants to go pew-pew in his shooty boats doesn't really care about the intricacies of angling, AP vs. HE and when to use it, hell, even that deepwater torps can't hit other DDs. Players can buy a high tier ship nearly off the bat and get dropped into Tier X games with a Tier VIII ship, and be a complete and total detriment to your team.

Moreover, until recently Wargaming didn't really have much in the way of tutorials (sure didn't when I started playing), so you're basically just tossed to the wolves for the first 1,000 matches or so until all the details start to form a cohesive whole in your mind.  

The problem really occurs when dedicated, learned players are teamed up with the average (or below) Joe or Jane on a regular basis -- the lopsided loses and victories get old, quick. The game gets boring, and you play matches hoping that this one will be a challenge, that you'll have support, and the eleven other people on your team have a rudimentary understanding of how the game works.

When it doesn't happen, well, it's easy to logout and play something else. When it continuously doesn't happen, it becomes easier to log out for the final time.

I do think some changes need to be done to matchmaking to make this game viable and interesting in the long term.

Except even if you are in a match where both teams have great players chances are some of them will make mistakes which cost the game. one team has to lose and when this happens someone on the team is going to find fault with his teammates and say they suck......

 

It doesn't matter if they are unicorn players, someone is going to die and get called a noob, because someone else lost because of it. So in the end you can't really fix things because its a human nature issue. 

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I've given up out if frustration at the idiocy of my teammmares.. Deleted Wows. 

Game last night we killed 6 enemy ships without loss on that Neighbours map (I nailed 3 in quick succession), then my DD was disabled then deleted from a big salvo.. I told my team that 2 ships were heading for our cap but no one cared, they all wanted to chase the half dead Bismarcks and the enemy CV in the far cirner. The 2 enemy DDs started capping and not a single player on my team did anything. A Cleveland finally turned around with 1m to go but he was too far away. Lost the game even though we only lost 1 boat and the enemy lost nearly 90%... The sheer stupidity made me say 'enough'. 

 Can be a great game but the frustration outweighs the fun for me these days.. 

 

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Sat down to have some fun for the evening.

3 games where half my team died to ZERO on the enemy team in a row.  

Sometimes I wonder why I bother to even play, certainly don't have any fun in games like that.   Last game (which I'm actually still in, I'm alt-tabbed because its over) we get a pink no clan CV vs a clanned CV....yeah, we got destroyed, and I knew it was gonna end that way before it even started.

Frankly, if ANYONE thinks Win% is a measure of skill is not only completely wrong, but just dumb.    Matches are 95% decided by who you get on your team and how much they know about the game.

Edited by Zenn3k
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I'm not really bothered by losing in randoms anymore. I feel like once you reach a certain skill level you either carry or you don't and sometimes you can't carry, but if you are good you will win a lot more then you lose. 

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1 minute ago, Slumlord_Cheeto said:

I'm not really bothered by losing in randoms anymore. I feel like once you reach a certain skill level you either carry or you don't and sometimes you can't carry, but if you are good you will win a lot more then you lose. 

That's where I amr ight now.. carried the vast majority of those 70% wins on that giulio Cesare.. Once you hit 55-57% W/R you're carrying a majority of your wins, and that number goes up the more you go up in W/R...

 

but despite that.. despite my W/R having climbed once again to 70%.. in the past several weeks its dipped bakk down to around 58-57 as I get teams that are so incredibly bad that with 200k damage to my name, I'm still going up against half the enemy fleet, most with full health still.. a month ago it used to be that way maybe once a night, which is fine... but its beent hat way 9/10 times lately, for 4 days straight...

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MM decided I should be the only tier 6.  Everyone else was a 7 or 8.  Radar lit me up and I was dead in 30 secs.  Five different red ships unloaded on me from 10+ km.  I was playing the DeGrasse.

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2 hours ago, Billy2Hawks said:

8 games in a row 7 of which were not even close. 6 of which half my team was dead within 5 minutes. 4 of which the team ignored caps and seemed to be just sailing around.

I will reiterate it again. There is a reason this game cannot retain many players past tier 6 and MM is why. It really sucks getting put in to a game in which the distribution of players will almost guarantee a loss. I have wasted 2 hours of my time trying to get at least one win and MM has thrown me matches in which I stood 0 chance of having any sort of competitive play. I could do all the damage I want, but it will not fix the fact that in at least 75% of my battles, we were down by at least 5 ships before hitting the 5 minute mark.

What keeps people coming back to play a game is a challenge. 90% of my games up to this point in my day have not been a challenge. There has been way too much stick and not enough carrot.

I mean I just came off of a 25 day break because of this very same thing. I had become so frustrated with attempting to get ahead in this game, to have it continually kick me in the nethers. I am now considering a 45 - 60 day break. After that, it will be not coming back.

80% of my clan has not logged in for over 30 days. For one of them, the last conversation I had was, "Where is everybody". I had to tell them the game has a high turnover rate. I have not seen them since.

I don't know how to fix this, and I am not entirely sure it is my problem to fix. I mean how can you fix what you have absolutely no control over. You come to the forums and so many of the players put so much stock into win rate and damage. Neither of those are possible when MM puts you into fights where your team melts so fast the possibility of attaining them are near impossible. This sort of thing is what drove me away from WoT. I am pretty sure this is why people resort to XVM, because they want to know if they are wasting another 10 - 20 minutes of their free time.

#1. Some days the luck is against you and you need to be in a three man unicum div (or at least noticeably above avg players) just to make it a balanced match.  Being able to knock out two additional "special" players from your team is huge.

#2. You need to join a clan with active players during the times you play.  That's on you if you stick around in a dormant clan.

#3. Not sure knowing how to fix this means you're not being creative enough to think of the top two above solutions.  And that's pretty sad considering how easily you should be able to reach one or both of those solutions by yourself.

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I find it amusing that IU can play my tier X Republique just fine with full teams and no waiting.  And rarely do I play with the same people.  It seems to - retain players to higher tiers.  Understand that a lot of players have to go back to the lower tiers to afford to play the higher tiers.

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3 hours ago, Billy2Hawks said:

8 games in a row 7 of which were not even close. 6 of which half my team was dead within 5 minutes. 

 

Wging seems to think this is good for the game.

 

Quick matches where you can't engross yourself into the game leads to lack of interest.   This is why Warplanes died.

Edited by WES_HoundDog

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2 hours ago, VGLance said:

#1. Some days the luck is against you and you need to be in a three man unicum div (or at least noticeably above avg players) just to make it a balanced match.  Being able to knock out two additional "special" players from your team is huge.

#2. You need to join a clan with active players during the times you play.  That's on you if you stick around in a dormant clan.

#3. Not sure knowing how to fix this means you're not being creative enough to think of the top two above solutions.  And that's pretty sad considering how easily you should be able to reach one or both of those solutions by yourself.

It's really bad at the moment and its likely due to most of the good players are playing ranked so random is extra bad at the moment.

So division is the way to go to stand a chance.

Edited by Final8ty

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the mm really messed up rank this season, though its just about the same as last season.  though I know wg will say differently but there seems to be something rigged with mm machine.  division (2 or 3 a division) should be allowed.  it would be nice to see some type of teamwork involved but its a rarity and to think how some of these ppl who play tier 8 or 10 ever got to that tier  very discouraging. I stopped at rank 14, just didn't seem worth wasting flags and time with these battles. I know many with say differently, but many will agree

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3 hours ago, VGLance said:

#1. Some days the luck is against you and you need to be in a three man unicum div (or at least noticeably above avg players) just to make it a balanced match.  Being able to knock out two additional "special" players from your team is huge.

#2. You need to join a clan with active players during the times you play.  That's on you if you stick around in a dormant clan.

#3. Not sure knowing how to fix this means you're not being creative enough to think of the top two above solutions.  And that's pretty sad considering how easily you should be able to reach one or both of those solutions by yourself.

#1. I can play at odd times and do not always have a planned play time, so unlike you I guess I do not have access to unicum divisions. I guess I am just not in the in group or part of the popular kids, so I just cannot pull an unicum div out of a hat.

#2. I am the leader of my clan and have had more than 50 players come through my clan. Most of them quit the game. I actually get tired of trying to recruit, but actually try to help newer players learn the game.

#3. Assumptions, they make an [edited]out of you and umption. I have considered those points. I could get into a pissing match about how you should not judge others by a surface value or before you even open a conversation with them, but I think that would be lost here.

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8 minutes ago, blk_orchid said:

the mm really messed up rank this season, though its just about the same as last season.  though I know wg will say differently but there seems to be something rigged with mm machine.  division (2 or 3 a division) should be allowed.  it would be nice to see some type of teamwork involved but its a rarity and to think how some of these ppl who play tier 8 or 10 ever got to that tier  very discouraging. I stopped at rank 14, just didn't seem worth wasting flags and time with these battles. I know many with say differently, but many will agree

I don't think MM is rigged. It would be a convenient and easy answer, but I don't think that is the case. I do wonder how teams get stacked so often, and so unevenly, but I don't think it is intentional. It could be a bug in the algorithm, but you would expect they would have found a problem with it by now.

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1 minute ago, Billy2Hawks said:

#1. I can play at odd times and do not always have a planned play time, so unlike you I guess I do not have access to unicum divisions. I guess I am just not in the in group or part of the popular kids, so I just cannot pull an unicum div out of a hat.

#2. I am the leader of my clan and have had more than 50 players come through my clan. Most of them quit the game. I actually get tired of trying to recruit, but actually try to help newer players learn the game.

#3. Assumptions, they make an [edited]out of you and umption. I have considered those points. I could get into a pissing match about how you should not judge others by a surface value or before you even open a conversation with them, but I think that would be lost here.

I own two companies, married and now have a 5 week old. My play times are extremely erratic.  I sucked when i started this game. I joined mediocre clans and over the three years as i outgrew their ability i moved to better clans. You don't just jump into a unicum clan. Focus more on finding the largest, active clans with a wide range of talent but then make note of who to div with and who not to. That's not being elitist. It's about respect. If your play style is centered around improving your game, below average casual players should respect that as much as you respect their play style. 

Sounds like you're burned out from recruiting. There are countless more clans than quality leaders to lead them so maybe it's time to hang up the officer hat and just be a regular member and focus on improving your game.  No matter what the challenge you are facing, there isn't a single one that others aren't also facing yet some of them exercised a problem solving attitude and overcame those challenges. 

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19 hours ago, Ken220_2016 said:

MM decided I should be the only tier 6.  Everyone else was a 7 or 8.  Radar lit me up and I was dead in 30 secs.  Five different red ships unloaded on me from 10+ km.  I was playing the DeGrasse.

Lol that happened to my Hindenburg today.

Doesn't matter what tier you are, if you're an attractive target for five ships, it's not likely to end well for you.....

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