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SeaKnight_1990

Gneisenau Secondary Build

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So, in what is traditional fashion for me, I spent a metric crap wad of free XP and got the Gneisenau. I'm thinking of running a secondary build on her. Someone tell me if 1: I should do this and 2: what upgrades/captain skills to go for. I pulled my old Kaiser commander out of the reserves and back to active duty. He has Priority Target, Expert Marksman, and Superintendent. I also got Main Armaments Mod 1. 

 

Thanks!

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Your going to want AFT first in kills as your next, then BFT. There's a bit of debate as to second 4 point skill particularly if you intend to keep that captain on Gnei. If you plan to use that captain on higher tier German BB's - get manual secondaries. At higher tiers the accuracy makes a difference. Staying at Gnei, even with 1/4 HE pen the 128 mm secondaries only reach 32 mm, which if I recall isn't quite enough to beat the higher tier BB's it sees, so IFHE may not be a terrible idea. Though Manual secondaries is the preferred of most captains. Other than that, AR. BFT alone takes the 128's to 3.6 second reload. AR starts kicking in and you get closer and closer to basically having a pair of Gearings strapped to each side. 

As for modernizations, Both the ones that reduce fire and flooding chance/effects, and SBM2 for more range, and the flag for that last little bit of range and reload speed as well. 

 

However, keep in mind that you have to be smart about pushing. Being over aggressive will get you wrecked fast, I'm the king of it I know. If it's just a couple cruisers, maybe a DD you can spot, lower tier BB's, long as it's not the whole team you can push in and drive he enemy back. Secondaries making up well for the not so great main battery. However, against higher tier BB's - play more like a super heavy cruiser, because even if they don't citadel you (and don't believe the hype YOU CAN be citadeled in a German BB, just harder than most) they will take massive chunks of HP out on normal pens. Also, while the AA is good, you see a Lex, Essex, or Enterprise - run for the nearest AA cruiser. They are likely packing AP, and you will be their favourite target if your isolated. 

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You obviously want a secondary build on gniessau, mostly because the ships after her require it. Her secondaries are great, but not jaw dropping like the first time you play with 11.4km bismark secondaries. You want aft and manual fire for secondary armament for sure. You can get bft and all the upgrades if you want to go all in secondaries on her. Personally I would NOT get bft, but get all the secondary gun upgrades. Compared to superintendent and basics of survivability, that secondary buff from bft isnt worth it

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On Gneisenau I did Preventive Maintenance, Expert Marksman, Adrenaline Rush, Basic Fire Training, Advanced Fire Training, Concealment Expert, and Superintendent. I also use Catapult fighter and secondary gun Signal Flag. This build lets you sneak up on targets a little better, fights well close range to mid range, and really helps against air attacks as added bonus.

Upgrades you need Main Armaments Mod 1, Damage Control System Mod 1,  Secondary Modification 2, and  Rudder Shift Mod 1.

If you find that your main guns are having to much trouble hitting targets then the secondary Mod 2 can be switched out for Aiming Mod 1 for better aim and slightly less secondary range, but certainly still useable and some prefer this.

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Honestly, I didn't think the Gneisenau was a very good secondary ship.  I went AR, BFT, AFT, and Manual Secondaries with SBM2 for the additional range.  The secondary battery is fantastic, but they lack the range needed (8km vs 11.3km) to truly be effective.  Mind you, the Gneisenau is built to be an in-your-face berserker with its high speed, great armor, and torpedoes, but you're still going to be doing the majority of your damage from your main battery.  Because of that, I felt like I was doing more consistent damage taking ASM1 to improve the main battery accuracy.  Without it, the Gneisenau is atrociously inaccurate - probably the most inaccurate ship in the game - and I was missing targets at point blank range. 

Overall though, it's a very flexible ship.  You can go the full secondary route.  You can also build it into a really mean AA platform, or take things like Superintendent and Concealment Expert to maximize its survivability.  The ship does really well as a Stoßtruppen where you appear out of nowhere and go full berserker mode right in the enemy's face. 

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I skip BFT, it's not a very useful skill for secondary builds. A 10% reload improvement on a gun which already has a very quick reload is insignificant. Gneisnau's 150mm secondaries have a reload time of 7.5s... a 10% reduction in this is 0.7s, which takes you to 6.8s. With the stock reload time you get 8 rounds/min out of the 150mm guns. With BFT you get 8.8 rounds/min. It's not even a full 1 round/min increase from stock for 3 points. IMO not worth the investment of points which could be used to improve survivability.

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25 minutes ago, Gen_Saris said:

I skip BFT, it's not a very useful skill for secondary builds. A 10% reload improvement on a gun which already has a very quick reload is insignificant. Gneisnau's 150mm secondaries have a reload time of 7.5s... a 10% reduction in this is 0.7s, which takes you to 6.8s. With the stock reload time you get 8 rounds/min out of the 150mm guns. With BFT you get 8.8 rounds/min. It's not even a full 1 round/min increase from stock for 3 points. IMO not worth the investment of points which could be used to improve survivability.

Unless you are worried about air attacks in which case BFT is great since it buffs both AA and Secondaries.

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1 minute ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Unless you are worried about air attacks in which case BFT is great since it buffs both AA and Secondaries.

For 3 points on a BB I'd rather have Basics of Survivability or Superintendent.

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6 hours ago, SeaKnight_1990 said:

Someone tell me if 1: I should do this

 

I would not recommend a secondary build on the Gneisenau.

 

Consider a couple key traits of a secondary focused ship:

- Tough enough to endure a close quarters battle

- High potential DPM from a secondary build

 

The Gneisenau is not nearly as tough, tier for tier, as the Bismarck, Tirpitz, or GK. I will not mention big Freddy since it is an abomination. Additionally, the Gneisenau secondary DPM is not nearly to a level where it is worth it.

 

I would recommend playing the Gneisenau to its strengths, it is an agile cruiser killer with the ability (in late game) to knock out any BB it faces with a well placed Torpedo attack. If you like the idea of having your secondaries a part of the equation, you could go for a hybrid build and forgo manual secondaries but select AFT and BFT. These together will give you good secondary range and DPM for BOTH ship to ship secondaries as well as a better AA suite. Just something to consider.

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I was thinking about this a little bit more, as I am leveling up the German line and really getting a feel of how all these ships play.  Because the Gneisenau has torpedoes, it's "armament package" is spread very thin across it's main battery, secondary battery, and torpedoes.  It has:

  • An already low alpha strike / DPM main battery that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn even if you paid a premium for same-day shipping.
  • An awesome secondary battery whose range prevents it from being as effective as it should be.  Makes for great AA though!
  • A torpedo spread that's really meant to be defensive in nature.

As a primarily American battleship player, where every ship feels "reliable" across the board, the German line very much feels like you're balancing a number of "unreliable" factors to great success.  The Gneisenau is an awesome ship, but you can't maximize on any one of its armaments to any reliable degree.  The only thing that makes sense is to capitalize on its main battery and embrace it's raider role that it was built to be in real life. 

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