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FlakKnight

113mm and ifhe

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I didn't see this listed on the blog (maybe I missed it) but now that we're only days away from being access to these, I'm curious if this was ever changed.  Are RN DDs with the 113s getting preferential HE pen like the IJNs or what's the plan?  Not even being able to damage 19mm DD hulls without ifhe would be a curious decision after giving the 100s absurd 1/4 pen baseline.  Is the AP pen RN cruiser grade maybe?

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4 minutes ago, FlakKnight said:

I didn't see this listed on the blog (maybe I missed it) but now that we're only days away from being access to these, I'm curious if this was ever changed.  Are RN DDs with the 113s getting preferential HE pen like the IJNs or what's the plan?  Not even being able to damage 19mm DD hulls without ifhe would be a curious decision after giving the 100s absurd 1/4 pen baseline.  Is the AP pen RN cruiser grade maybe?

No better HE penetration coefficient. No better AP or bounce angles/fuses.

You'll take your IFHE and you'll enjoy doing it!

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4 minutes ago, mofton said:

No better HE penetration coefficient. No better AP or bounce angles/fuses.

You'll take your IFHE and you'll enjoy doing it!

I thought they were reducing the armor down to 13mm on most DDs. (Not lord and savior khaba though)

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Just now, Merlox said:

I thought they were reducing the armor down to 13mm on most DDs. (Not lord and savior khaba though)

They were talking about it, the last we heard was that they were trying something else though.

Reducing the armor to 13mm meant getting overmatched by 8in AP from heavy cruisers rather than autobouncing it, meant taking far more damage from all the 4in secondaries in the game and completely screwed DD on DD AP use as their fuses only arm on somewhat angled 19mm plates as it is, and never would outside of autobounce on 13mm.

Dropping DD armor as a way of removing 'the BB AP effect' was a terrible idea, the side effects were huge. A simple 'is this a DD, if so max 10% damage' check would appear far more sensible.

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28 minutes ago, mofton said:

No better HE penetration coefficient. No better AP or bounce angles/fuses.

You'll take your IFHE and you'll enjoy doing it!

Bleh.  Guess we'll see how it works out.  Doesn't seem great if the Daring can't HE anywhere on a BB and even AP will ricochet of superstructure if angled at all, but haven't played with it yet.  I guess that's also why we get access to the 5-8 now and 9-10 get another month of tweaks.

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1 minute ago, FlakKnight said:

Bleh.  Guess we'll see how it works out.  Doesn't seem great if the Daring can't HE anywhere on a BB and even AP will ricochet of superstructure if angled at all, but haven't played with it yet.  I guess that's also why we get access to the 5-8 now and 9-10 get another month of tweaks.

With IFHE you can at least hurt BB superstructures with HE, though nothing else - same as most T9-T10 DD. AP will work... sometimes.

The real positive is an 8% fire chance, or 7% after IFHE plus on Daring 161 RPM with the ROF module.

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2 minutes ago, mofton said:

With IFHE you can at least hurt BB superstructures with HE, though nothing else - same as most T9-T10 DD. AP will work... sometimes.

The real positive is an 8% fire chance, or 7% after IFHE plus on Daring 161 RPM with the ROF module.

Yea, it might work out fine in the end, just meh at having a max 11 pt captain on ships that require ifhe and ce.

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4 hours ago, FlakKnight said:

I didn't see this listed on the blog (maybe I missed it) but now that we're only days away from being access to these, I'm curious if this was ever changed.  Are RN DDs with the 113s getting preferential HE pen like the IJNs or what's the plan?  Not even being able to damage 19mm DD hulls without ifhe would be a curious decision after giving the 100s absurd 1/4 pen baseline.  Is the AP pen RN cruiser grade maybe?

Nothing I have seen about giving UK DDs 1/4 pen.

 

You are only days away (patch 7.9 Sep 19th) from accessing the T5-T8 early access DDs, ala the French early access from that release. You will be able to earn XP on an early release UK DD if you get a mission in a RN event container drop, but can not research the next ship in line.

 

The UK DD full line is dropping on patch 7.10 Oct 17th.

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/development/royal-navy/

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Just wait then.

 

I don't remember Akizuki player complain that much about taking IFHE but after maybe a year or two, they decided to give her 25mm base pen. The HE DPM against DD is pretty scary with Daring so I don't think it will be that bad, and someday WG will eventually give her 1/4 HE pen. Though I'm a bit hesistant about that because I heard Daring HE DPM is actually the best of all T10 and on top of that, it has a pretty high fire chance for a ship with 2.5 reload. 

 

And don't forget AP exist. How Akizuki player managed to deal damage against target when IFHE was not even in the game ? 

Edited by AlcatrazNC

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20 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

Just wait then.

 

I don't remember Akizuki player complain that much about taking IFHE but after maybe a year or two, they decided to give her 25mm base pen. The HE DPM against DD is pretty scary with Daring so I don't think it will be that bad, and someday WG will eventually give her 1/4 HE pen. Though I'm a bit hesistant about that because I heard Daring HE DPM is actually the best of all T10 and on top of that, it has a pretty high fire chance for a ship with 2.5 reload. 

 

And don't forget AP exist. How Akizuki player managed to deal damage against target when IFHE was not even in the game ? 

There were complaints. Specifically about having to have a 14-point commander in order for Akizuki to be competitive, while all other ships only needed 10 points. Something would have to be given to these RN DDs, else they too will require a 14-point commander build, just to be competitive.

Fires were Akizuki's primary damage source, even with people switching over to AP against burning targets. When a DOT effect is the primary source of damage, for a ship, there's a problem, especially since DOTs do very little damage in the short term, unless one gets lucky and catch a battleship with its DC on cooldown.

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35 minutes ago, Counter_Gambit said:

There were complaints. Specifically about having to have a 14-point commander in order for Akizuki to be competitive, while all other ships only needed 10 points. Something would have to be given to these RN DDs, else they too will require a 14-point commander build, just to be competitive.

Fires were Akizuki's primary damage source, even with people switching over to AP against burning targets. When a DOT effect is the primary source of damage, for a ship, there's a problem, especially since DOTs do very little damage in the short term, unless one gets lucky and catch a battleship with its DC on cooldown.

 

I'm not saying there was NO complain, I know some people requested WG to change this. But even if you need a 14 pts commander to have a decent Akizuki captain it doesn't mean the ship will not work. What I wanted to say is just wait and play her with IFHE without that 1/4 HE pen. Maybe it will turns out to be good, or maybe not that great.  

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11 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

 

I'm not saying there was NO complain, I know some people requested WG to change this. But even if you need a 14 pts commander to have a decent Akizuki captain it doesn't mean the ship will not work. What I wanted to say is just wait and play her with IFHE without that 1/4 HE pen. Maybe it will turns out to be good, or maybe not that great.  

Or maybe there will be something else about these new Destroyers, that makes another skill more worthwhile than IFHE.

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8 hours ago, mofton said:

A simple 'is this a DD, if so max 10% damage' check would appear far more sensible.

I suspect that the code that does the pen calculations and application of damage has no knowledge of such high-level concepts as "ship type".

 

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4 hours ago, iDuckman said:

I suspect that the code that does the pen calculations and application of damage has no knowledge of such high-level concepts as "ship type".

Obviously, WG should just insert an if statement that does whatever multiple dereference/lookup operation is required to grab the ship type from the armor model description. That will have no long term repercussions whatsoever. Obviously. /s

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20 hours ago, FlakKnight said:

I didn't see this listed on the blog (maybe I missed it) but now that we're only days away from being access to these, I'm curious if this was ever changed.  Are RN DDs with the 113s getting preferential HE pen like the IJNs or what's the plan?  Not even being able to damage 19mm DD hulls without ifhe would be a curious decision after giving the 100s absurd 1/4 pen baseline.  Is the AP pen RN cruiser grade maybe?

https://www.facebook.com/wowsdevblog/

Well, now the 113mm's have USN CA AP autobounce angles (no ricochet to 30', chance of ricochet 30-22.5').

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20 hours ago, Merlox said:

I thought they were reducing the armor down to 13mm on most DDs. (Not lord and savior khaba though)

Nope, like mof stated they tried it and it was really not well received. Yes it reduced overpens but it made 8inch  AP shred.  

 

Currently we are there is no solution that has been conveyed to the community, however that does not mean they arent working on something else. 

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13 hours ago, iDuckman said:

I suspect that the code that does the pen calculations and application of damage has no knowledge of such high-level concepts as "ship type".

 

True, but it does differentiate between areas of the ship. On other ships, only the citadel area takes 100% damage. The rest of the ship is another "area", that they arbitrarily assigned a 66% (or however the math works) damage reduction.

No reason they can't invent another "area" with a greater damage reduction.

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