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awesomeartichokes

Tier X economics seem a little messed up

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Please NOTE! This is not a rant ONLY a commentary. I am starting to feel grinding to tier X is pointless because you have to play lower tiers anyhow.

I had a decent game as a Tier X. No Premium Camo but premium account.

victory.thumb.jpg.804de8dc31d016ac7253983814852fda.jpg

Lots of damage, capped, I was in the thick of the battle....(had to be with almost 700 secondary shells fired)... and 9 out of 12 enemies damaged....

detail-1.thumb.jpg.43076a41c8edf6e8479a4114a9ab9910.jpgdetail-2.thumb.jpg.4b3cbceb4c3aa05282c0e56b04015031.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fourth on the winning team.....

team.thumb.jpg.da2037bd7d6069109c431270ce0d0982.jpg

Yet even with a premium account I barely netted any credits.

if I didn't have a premium account I would have lost credits. As it is I barely made anything.  A non-premium account would have gotten -33K credits for a very good hard fought victory

credits.thumb.jpg.85b8696e52d9f478cd63bb3bc568d633.jpg

Its WG's game -- but WoWs! I always thought I wasn't netting any credits because I suck. This game I didn't and yet .. pennies earned.

 

 

Edited by awesomeartichokes
removed dup image

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Aside from the premium camo comments, something I can point out is that this wasn't a great game.

 

127k Damage for a GK is 'meh'.   Likewise the potential is also 'meh' for a GK.   You can make up for this by capping/defending and spotting but all those are low as well.

 

What you earned seems about right for a premium account.   Not saying that it wasn't a good battle, just that nothing seems out of the ordinary.

Edited by SyndicatedINC
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6 minutes ago, SyndicatedINC said:

Aside from the premium camo comments, something I can point out is that this wasn't a great game.

 

127k Damage for a GK is 'meh'.   Likewise the potential is also 'meh' for a GK.   You can make up for this by capping/defending and spotting but all those are low as well.

 

What you earned seems about right for a premium account.   Not saying that it wasn't a good battle, just that nothing seems out of the ordinary.

"Wasn't a great game" ... well, I was fourth on the winning team, 4th overall - I beat all the opposing team as well. So by WG's ranking, it was a "good game".

 

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1 minute ago, awesomeartichokes said:

"Wasn't a great game" ... well, I was fourth on the winning team, 4th overall - I beat all the opposing team as well. So by WG's ranking, it was a "good game".

 

Good yes, not knocking it.  Ultimately you won (which is the only important thing really).

 

Was just explaining how a good game can be 'meh' rewards.   Also important to note is total damage is less important than the percentage of total ship HP that damage represents of the target you hit.  In other words 12k on a shimakaze is worth more than 30k on a Yamato.  Looking it over you hit a lot of different ships, but didn't do even half damage to most of them.   This would also negatively impact your credit earnings.

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It's by design. They'd rather you pay for Premium (or a premium camo) after all.

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12 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

This is what you need to fix all of your concerns about Tier X economics

Yeah -- I get that. The economics of tier X premium camo mean that that costs ~$30.

I did say that this was NOT a rant for a reason. I spend money on this game. I am developer myself and I pay for 'free' things on the web more than most because I want those services to continue to be available to me.

That said, a good game like this should still be breakeven for a non-premium account.

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Just now, awesomeartichokes said:

Yeah -- I get that. The economics of tier X premium camo mean that that costs ~$30.

I did say that this was NOT a rant for a reason. I spend money on this game. I am developer myself and I pay for 'free' things on the web more than most because I want those services to continue to be available to me.

That said, a good game like this should still be breakeven for a non-premium account.

WG has always used tier 10 as a means to generate profit.  This is a free to play game, and so many users refuse to spend a dime on it.  I think the wows economy is actually far too forgiving as so many players have well over 500 million credits and nothing to spend them on.  Using just a premium account ($12/mo) makes it so you will never have to worry about credits ever.  I think this is fair.

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2 minutes ago, SyndicatedINC said:

Looking it over you hit a lot of different ships, but didn't do even half damage to most of them.   This would also negatively impact your credit earnings.

Is there any place where WG helps players understand how credits are determined? 

This statement is the first I have heard that it is best to deliver 50+% to a ship. Based on the "Confederate" achievement I always assumed that it was best to spread out damage delivered rather than focusing exclusively on 1 or 2 ships.

But if you are right then it is better from a credit perspective to focus on the DD's and cruisers than the BBs (easier to 1 shot 50+% of the health)

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3 minutes ago, bfk_ferlyfe said:

so many players have well over 500 million credits and nothing to spend them on.

Nice problem to have, I wonder what is the percentage of player base with this problem. No one I know has this "problem".

I thought I spent too much time playing... (probably I just suck more than them is the reason)

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Like WoT T10 isn't made for grinding credits. The only way to make money in T10 is

a) premium account,

b) play well,

c) know what kind of damage gives you the most money.

You can also add

d) premium camo

e) flags

Usually T6-T8 (and premium ships) print you the credits you need to run T10.

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12 minutes ago, awesomeartichokes said:

Yeah -- I get that. The economics of tier X premium camo mean that that costs ~$30.

I did say that this was NOT a rant for a reason. I spend money on this game. I am developer myself and I pay for 'free' things on the web more than most because I want those services to continue to be available to me.

That said, a good game like this should still be breakeven for a non-premium account.

No. The economy is designed so that you need to visit lower tiers to fund high tier. It keeps the game population from being top heavy.

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16 minutes ago, awesomeartichokes said:

Is there any place where WG helps players understand how credits are determined? 

This statement is the first I have heard that it is best to deliver 50+% to a ship. Based on the "Confederate" achievement I always assumed that it was best to spread out damage delivered rather than focusing exclusively on 1 or 2 ships.

But if you are right then it is better from a credit perspective to focus on the DD's and cruisers than the BBs (easier to 1 shot 50+% of the health)

I would say the wiki, but that seems fairly out of date.   I know it is in writing from several DEV posts and Q&A.   I recall seeing it in a training video or some such aimed at new players, but I can't recall where.   

Correct though, like much of the game mechanics it is not fully explained well.

 

Also yes, from a credits perspective as a GK you want to focus out DDs and Cruisers where possible while charging in and tanking as much damage as possible.   

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I enjoy the mid tiers the most...T6-T8.  I even enjoy the low tiers now and then.  And also the high tiers. I pretty much play whatever I feel like.  This play style has netted me an ever increasing bundle of credits.  Never have to worry about Premium consumables.  Never need to worry about losing money when I potato at T10.  Never need to worry about paying for a ship.  I can't remember when I last sold a ship.  Basically, I get to just enjoy a beautiful game, have a lot of fun....and just go into battle with whatever I feel like at the moment without any thought whatsoever about economy.

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so first, i see -15%, that means you get 5% flag from ranked.

now im not sure where the last 10% is from , but clan gives you 10%, flags gives you another 10%, so it could be 25% instead of 5% for you (for someone that reached r10 it would be 30%, someone that reached r5 it would be 40%)

for no clan people they would have to miss out on the 10%

so that is 18000 you could've saved

 

the other thing is , bulk of your damage comes from GK

a very common misconception is raw damage number=reward

no, this is very wrong.

i can almost guarentee you that scoring 15k on a gearing will give you far more reward than the 60k on the GK. not just "how much it contributes to victory", but also actually credit and XP income

 

 next time a perma camo event comes up, participate in it and grab yourself a free perma camo so you can freely TX without worrying about credits

there has already been three (HSF yamato , sharks and eagles des moines, sharks and eagles worcester), so i think there will be more coming

there are also salem who has built in perma camo and a reduced servicing fee

Edited by jason199506

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One issue is that you get more rewards for damaging higher Tier ships, which is impossible in Tier X.  Note that someof your damage was done to Tier VIII ships, for instance.  I run my Tier Xs in PvE quite a bit to practice and normally make a small amount of credits or at least break even with a Premium account and signals.  I keep stocked through frequent scenario battles, along with Ter VII battles.

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38 minutes ago, awesomeartichokes said:

Is there any place where WG helps players understand how credits are determined? 

This statement is the first I have heard that it is best to deliver 50+% to a ship. Based on the "Confederate" achievement I always assumed that it was best to spread out damage delivered rather than focusing exclusively on 1 or 2 ships.

But if you are right then it is better from a credit perspective to focus on the DD's and cruisers than the BBs (easier to 1 shot 50+% of the health)

I got most of my information on credit/XP earning from patch notes and the forum.  The 0.5 patches were the last big change to the economy and the notes explain it a bit.

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47 minutes ago, awesomeartichokes said:

Is there any place where WG helps players understand how credits are determined? 

This statement is the first I have heard that it is best to deliver 50+% to a ship. Based on the "Confederate" achievement I always assumed that it was best to spread out damage delivered rather than focusing exclusively on 1 or 2 ships.

But if you are right then it is better from a credit perspective to focus on the DD's and cruisers than the BBs (easier to 1 shot 50+% of the health)

Earnings are primarily based on percentage of damage dealt relative to the overall health of the ships you are dealing damage to, as well as the tier of the ship.  There are additional earnings for things like damage absorbed, capping, but it has much lesser impact.  So, if you hit DD for 1,500 damage you will get paid more than hitting BB for 1,500 damage, simply because BB has larger health pool and the same damage will take out lesser percentage of overall health.  If you keep hitting T10 DD from T8 ship, you will be making most credits.  Shooting at T8 BB from T10 ship will make much less credits for you.

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43 minutes ago, awesomeartichokes said:

Yeah -- I get that. The economics of tier X premium camo mean that that costs ~$30.

I did say that this was NOT a rant for a reason. I spend money on this game. I am developer myself and I pay for 'free' things on the web more than most because I want those services to continue to be available to me.

That said, a good game like this should still be breakeven for a non-premium account.

With the normal cost of 5k doubloons, T10 perma-camo comes out to $23.56. Less if you get a doubloon sale or buy a bunch of doubloons at once.

ueyTsK3.jpg

 

 

40 minutes ago, bfk_ferlyfe said:

WG has always used tier 10 as a means to generate profit.  This is a free to play game, and so many users refuse to spend a dime on it.  I think the wows economy is actually far too forgiving as so many players have well over 500 million credits and nothing to spend them on.  Using just a premium account ($12/mo) makes it so you will never have to worry about credits ever.  I think this is fair.

Yep, that is also why co-op pays out so little credits. To play T7-8+ co-op, you really need premium time, perma-camo or both. T10 perma-camo cuts the 180k service cost to 90k and provides +20% credits.

 

39 minutes ago, awesomeartichokes said:

Is there any place where WG helps players understand how credits are determined? 

This statement is the first I have heard that it is best to deliver 50+% to a ship. Based on the "Confederate" achievement I always assumed that it was best to spread out damage delivered rather than focusing exclusively on 1 or 2 ships.

But if you are right then it is better from a credit perspective to focus on the DD's and cruisers than the BBs (easier to 1 shot 50+% of the health)

I don't think that there is more out there than this. 

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Economy

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Economy#Operating_Cost

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54 minutes ago, awesomeartichokes said:

"Wasn't a great game" ... well, I was fourth on the winning team, 4th overall - I beat all the opposing team as well. So by WG's ranking, it was a "good game".

 

If you're going to come in here trying to make a point, don't take the feedback so personally. 4th overall in a tier X is not remarkable. At all.

A 10 second look at your stats shows pretty conclusively that your damage output is lower than average and your MBH % is pretty low as well. These are bad things when it comes time to trying to squeeze credits out of high tiers. 

So yeah... the economy in higher tiers is challenging. That's not going to change. 

Ever. 

But what you can do is take some constructive feedback, dial in your aiming and keep working on improving so that you can get more out of each high tier game.  Manage your signals and camo and you're away to the races. 

Edited by _ENO_

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OP, just be glad this isn't WoT.  There, you would be lucky if you broke even, even with Premium.  Also, its a lot easier now than before in WoWS to make a 'profit' in tier 10.  In addition to Premium, WG has given access to camo that increase credits earned and/or decrease service costs, flags that increase credits earned, signals that increase credits earned and/or decrease service costs,  and clan buildings that decrease service costs.  Its been argued that one of the reasons that tier 8s get uptiered to tier 10 battles so much is because the economy of playing a tier 10 ship is 'favourable', leading to more people able to play tier 10s more often.

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1 minute ago, Patton5150 said:

OP, just be glad this isn't WoT.  There, you would be lucky if you broke even, even with Premium.  Also, its a lot easier now than before in WoWS to make a 'profit' in tier 10.  In addition to Premium, WG has given access to camo that increase credits earned and/or decrease service costs, flags that increase credits earned, signals that increase credits earned and/or decrease service costs,  and clan buildings that decrease service costs.  Its been argued that one of the reasons that tier 8s get uptiered to tier 10 battles so much is because the economy of playing a tier 10 ship is 'favourable', leading to more people able to play tier 10s more often.

Guilty as charged.

4800 battles overall, over 1400 at TX...

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7 minutes ago, Patton5150 said:

OP, just be glad this isn't WoT.  There, you would be lucky if you broke even, even with Premium.  Also, its a lot easier now than before in WoWS to make a 'profit' in tier 10.  In addition to Premium, WG has given access to camo that increase credits earned and/or decrease service costs, flags that increase credits earned, signals that increase credits earned and/or decrease service costs,  and clan buildings that decrease service costs.  Its been argued that the one of the reasons that tier 8s get uptiered to tier 10 battles so much is because the economy of playing a tier 10 ship is 'favourable'.

I could not agree more.  Playing T10 tanks in WOT is not sustainable.  Hell, even playing certain T9 tanks like T-54 is not sustainable, which is a shame - that's one hell of a tank.  So you are literally forced into playing lower tiers, which were made miserable with MM changes that force you to be bottom tier for vast majority of games.

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11 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

Guilty as charged.

4800 battles overall, over 1400 at TX...

Oh, I thought we were talking tanks.  Yeah, in ships majority of games played is in T10...

Edited by Ramsalot

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