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MS406france1940

Which of the South American dreadnoughts was the best desing?

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So yeah, I am asking another thing here because why not?

In all seriousness, I am resorting to the superior knowledge of this forum to ask the question that is on the tittle. 

Out of the three classes of battleships built and commisioned by South American navies: 

The Rivadavia class for Argentina

Resultado de imagen para ARA Rivadavia

 

The Minas Geraes for Brazil: 

Resultado de imagen para Minas Geraes-class battleship

And Almirante Latorre for the Chileans 

Resultado de imagen para acorazado latorre

Which one was the best one on paper and imagining that all external variables are the same which one would win?

 

Edited by MS406france1940

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36 minutes ago, TheSeventhSeeker said:

Rivara?  Surely, you mean Rivadavia, right?

Edited, thanks for correcting the typo.

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The Rivadavia, was American built dreadnought, better armor, than the Minas.  They had the same armament and the Rivadavia,  was slightly faster.  The Minas was in commission 4 years before the Rivadavia,  so an older design.   I would give an edge to the Rivadavia.  The Almirante Latorre  was a true Battleship, not a dreadnought, built much later in 1920, she was built with lessons learned in WW1.  With 14 inch guns she would have dominated the other two...if and when they got in range, the battle would even up a bit as the armor is about the same for all three.  Usually in battles with ships that are this similar it would come down to tactics and the lucky citadel, but I give a Almirante Latorre  a significant edge overall.

Hope that helps

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The Almirante Latorre in my opinion is the best of the three.

While none of them are great - typically sacrificing armor for armament and speed, the Latorre has advantages -

Latorre:

  • Lain down November 1911
  • 14in main armament - 15,860lb broadside
  • All guns on the centerline
  • Sensible arrangement with fighting top ahead of funnel
  • 229mm belt from end to end of turrets, but sometimes submerged, 178mm upper belt
  • 22.7kt

Rivadavia:

  • Lain down May 1910
  • 12in main armament - 10,440lb broadside
  • Old-fashioned arrangement of wing turrets - vulnerable to damage, limited firing angles
  • Sensible arrangement with fighting top ahead of funnel
  • 280mm belt from end to end of turrets, 229-203mm upper belt
  • 22.5kt

Minas Geraes:

  • Lain down April 1907
  • 12in main armament - 8,500lb broadside
  • Old-fashioned arrangement of wing turrets - vulnerable to damage, unable to fire across-deck
  • Silly arrangement of fighting top aft of funnel, vulnerable to smoke/heat
  • 229mm belt extends from B-X turrets only
  • 21kt

There is a huge difference between the three. Dreadnought design advanced very quickly through the period and 4 years really shows. Minas Geraes is just out of contention, a very old (and very British) design.

Rivadavia and Latorre are more competitive, but I'd say although Rivadavia has a slightly superior armor scheme (Latorre is really a down-armored Iron Duke) the turret arrangement and heavy gun broadside of Latorre give her a big advantage - able to throw significantly more metal on 10 guns than the 12 lighter ones of the Rivadavia.

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It should be noted that HMS Agincourt was sort of a South American design.  She was designed with the limitations of Brazil in mind, which couldn't readily manufacture 14" shells, but they still wanted a Dreadnought to outgun their opponents.  The result was the Battleship equipped with the most main battery guns and turrets.  Only when the time came, Brazil couldn't actually afford this ship because of their sunken economy.

HMSAgincourt11.jpg

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48 minutes ago, Sventex said:

It should be noted that HMS Agincourt was sort of a South American design.  She was designed with the limitations of Brazil in mind, which couldn't readily manufacture 14" shells, but they still wanted a Dreadnought to outgun their opponents.  The result was the Battleship equipped with the most main battery guns and turrets.  Only when the time came, Brazil couldn't actually afford this ship because of their sunken economy.

HMSAgincourt11.jpg

There was also a naval revolt that gave the goverment second thoughts about investing in the navy. 

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2 hours ago, Morpheous said:

The Rivadavia, was American built dreadnought, better armor, than the Minas.  They had the same armament and the Rivadavia,  was slightly faster.  The Minas was in commission 4 years before the Rivadavia,  so an older design.   I would give an edge to the Rivadavia.  The Almirante Latorre  was a true Battleship, not a dreadnought, built much later in 1920, she was built with lessons learned in WW1.  With 14 inch guns she would have dominated the other two...if and when they got in range, the battle would even up a bit as the armor is about the same for all three.  Usually in battles with ships that are this similar it would come down to tactics and the lucky citadel, but I give a Almirante Latorre  a significant edge overall.

Hope that helps

Latorre served in the RN during WW1 as the HMS Canada including service in the Battle of Jutland.  She's definitely, the best in class vs the other PanAm/ABC nations.

Edited by crzyhawk

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19 hours ago, crzyhawk said:

Latorre served in the RN during WW1 as the HMS Canada including service in the Battle of Jutland.  She's definitely, the best in class vs the other PanAm/ABC nations.

YES not sure how I missed that...thanks for the additional info!

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