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mrieder79

Are the rumors about kitakaze/harugumo nerf real or just salty IG chat?

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I've been hearing people declare, with utter certainty, that kitakaze and harugumo are getting nerfed. I've been checking the dev blog and havent seen anything and was wondering if anyone else knew anything. Part of me suspects it's all a bunch of salty, in-game chat, but I'm curious becuase I like these ships and am strongly considering getting permacamo for them, but if there is even a chance of nerfage, i'm going to hold off. 

Thanks for your replies.

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At the moment the battles played are too few to tell for certain whether Kitakaze needs a nerf. In addition, based on stats from WoWs stats and numbers, across all servers the performance of Kitakaze has been comparable to the one of Chung Mu. On our server, Kitakaze has a little bit more damage and 1,6% lower winrate than Chung Mu.

Granted, this data doesn't paint a picture of the whole playerbase, but its a useful indicator. My point is that if Chung Mu hasn't been nerfed after one year while having similar results to the Kitakaze, why should the latter get a nerf?

As for Harugumo, she has even less battles so it's too early to even talk about tendencies or indicators.

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I don’t think it’s all about performance. If the player base fusses loudly enough, that can do it too. 

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Both are broken. This recent trend with the high DPM HE spam starting with the Worcester is detrimental to the game. 

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  It is too early.  Most of the Kit and Haru are played by experienced players.   Most of the folks who are negative about them don't have them.  This is just the NEW ship that people focus on until the next one comes along.

  Read so many complaining that they were sunk by them and it was unfair.   A little analysis of the player making the complaint usually turns up a player that needs more practice/skill.

  Look, these IJN gunboats are fun and in the right hands scary.  All 3 (Akizuki, Kitakaze, Huragumo) have a strength and a couple of weaknesses.  The Akizuki has been in the game for a while and shares many traits with the Kitakaze...but are people complaining about the Akizuki?  

  I have all three and enjoy playing each.  Each has a slightly different feel, but the play style is basic throughout all three.  Position, stay undetected, push/defend caps, use torps when needed, use cover,  use smoke, beware of torps, etc...

  I hope they aren't nerfed because I use them to help punish the wealth of Radar ships at high tier (and loner BBs).

VR,

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I doubt they get nerfed. They have huge downsides that mediocre/bad players struggle with. Yeah they do massive amounts of "burst" damage but it doesn't make players smarter. I've deleted a fair number that were parked in smoke firing non-stop. 

 They're more likely to be game breaking by good/great players, especially in a div, but be average for everyone else. Sorta like Khaba.

 

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I’ve seen ‘gumos dominate th game a couple of times; in both cases for at least some of the time he was visible in open water and no one was firing at him. When people learn to treat them more like Atlantas (prioritize to kill on sight), I have a feeling they’ll settle into their niche without needing much change. 

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6 minutes ago, TexJapan said:

  It is too early.  Most of the Kit and Haru are played by experienced players.   Most of the folks who are negative about them don't have them.  This is just the NEW ship that people focus on until the next one comes along.

  Read so many complaining that they were sunk by them and it was unfair.   A little analysis of the player making the complaint usually turns up a player that needs more practice/skill.

  Look, these IJN gunboats are fun and in the right hands scary.  All 3 (Akizuki, Kitakaze, Huragumo) have a strength and a couple of weaknesses.  The Akizuki has been in the game for a while and shares many traits with the Kitakaze...but are people complaining about the Akizuki? 

I agree with most, but Akizuki back in her time didn't have the 25mm stock HE penetration she has now, that can be further boosted to 32mm with IFHE. She therefore required some skill to pepper superstructures and constant ammo switches to use the AP on any broadside.

Now, and this is the only issue I have with the ships, they are just able to mindlessly spam HE and have the same penetration as a CL with IFHE.

Since the whole reasoning behind the HE penetration change was to make it feasible for the ships to run without IFHE and perform well, 20mm HE penetration would allow anyone to penetrate superstructures and DDs without making it totally mindless.

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16 hours ago, TexJapan said:

  It is too early.  Most of the Kit and Haru are played by experienced players.   Most of the folks who are negative about them don't have them.  This is just the NEW ship that people focus on until the next one comes along.

  Read so many complaining that they were sunk by them and it was unfair.   A little analysis of the player making the complaint usually turns up a player that needs more practice/skill.

As @firemedic1428 above noted, they are very bad for the game. "Unfair" or not, exchanging fire with ships that do not hide and smoke is fun and engaging. "Playing" against one of these IJN firespam botes is boring and stupid -- they spam out HE and the best you can hope for is that you can kill them in smoke with torps or get out of range. Those ships are only fun for those who drive them. For the people who have to endure that endless arc of firespam, they are one of the things that make players move down to T7 and below and stop playing high tier matches.

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1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

I agree with most, but Akizuki back in her time didn't have the 25mm stock HE penetration she has now, that can be further boosted to 32mm with IFHE. She therefore required some skill to pepper superstructures and constant ammo switches to use the AP on any broadside.

Now, and this is the only issue I have with the ships, they are just able to mindlessly spam HE and have the same penetration as a CL with IFHE.

Since the whole reasoning behind the HE penetration change was to make it feasible for the ships to run without IFHE and perform well, 20mm HE penetration would allow anyone to penetrate superstructures and DDs without making it totally mindless.

My point is still valid about the Akizuki...yes she was buffed but where are the claims of OP on it.   IMO, it's just the new ship is OP until the next ship comes along.   Give it time.

vr,

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Too early to tell. It really depends on if they create too big of a sustained imbalance between themselves and other gunbote style DDs or are simply gunning down Cruisers in straight gun fights with regularity. 

Until they've produced a few months of data I wouldn't expect any changes. The key times probably being at the end of Ranked or next CW season. 

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14 minutes ago, Ares1967 said:

I doubt they get nerfed. They have huge downsides that mediocre/bad players struggle with. Yeah they do massive amounts of "burst" damage but it doesn't make players smarter. I've deleted a fair number that were parked in smoke firing non-stop. 

 They're more likely to be game breaking by good/great players, especially in a div, but be average for everyone else. Sorta like Khaba.

 

Agree.

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Just now, TexJapan said:

My point is still valid about the Akizuki...yes she was buffed but where are the claims of OP on it.   IMO, it's just the new ship is OP until the next ship comes along.   Give it time.

vr,

Of course, you are correct in that regard, I am mostly voicing my dislike to a certain choice by WG when it came to the HE pen of the ships. Power creep will always exist in games like this.

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I think they were fine in their first iteration without quarter HE pen, but out dpm'ing most cruisers you fight is a bit ridiculous.

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3-4 months give or take as if keeping the normal pen rules was really that silly of an idea. It would have been easy to slap on hydro and def aa in a separate slot. 

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1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

Of course, you are correct in that regard, I am mostly voicing my dislike to a certain choice by WG when it came to the HE pen of the ships. Power creep will always exist in games like this.

  Power creep is real but the main issue is really Power Shift.   The shift in what was strong or what meda worked is changing.  The increase in radar ships, inclusion of HIGH Tier Premium ships, nerfs/buffs to certain ships, crazy increase in AA power at high tier, etc...this game is evolving and players need to adapt. 

vr, 

  

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23 minutes ago, Komrade_Rylo said:

I think they were fine in their first iteration without quarter HE pen, but out dpm'ing most cruisers you fight is a bit ridiculous.

If they are out DPMing cruisers, the cruisers themselves screwed up, or the Harugumo is being properly supported by his team. A Harugumo on its own, should be easily eaten alive by cruisers.

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Nerf, maybe, maybe not. Either way it will take months of data collecting for WG to determine this. It's really no different than any other new ship, it shifts the meta, people adapt, the masses get their hands on them and it all balances out.

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There is nothing official yet, but I am approaching the Harugumo under the assumption it is going to be nerfed.  It's still too early to tell what the stats will say, but the Harugumo is just one of those ships were you can immediately tell something feels wrong when you play it, much like the pre-nerf Conqueror.  I haven't played it enough to make up my mind about whether it's over powered or not, but I've got a gut feeling it gets changed before too long.  

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Wait until the masses start playing them in numbers and the averages stabilize.  When the dust settles these ships will be like the Knab, weak cruisers.

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These ships are sales gimmicks as WG attempts to change the game play format towards a real Arcade FPS format....  To do that, they needed a IJN gunboat systems.....  The Russian have them, the UK has them, the US has them and now the IJN has them.... 

If you haven't notices since the cruiser line split, the entire game has been changing away from traditional roles to a format more of a FFA....  That is intentional because traditional naval conflict were boring and the WG marketing was quickly seeing the 16-24 market dwindling because the era WoWs occupies is very strict and very narrow....  We started seeing "gimmicks" Amine, Space stuff and school theme stuff to draw that age group back and it didn't meet the revenue projections.....

So, they are changing the entire game play into what those kids really want:  an arcade game without roles or anything historic that required any real thought to use.....an FFA arcade that has high volume guns.  They did the same thing in WoTs and drove off all of the serious baby boomers and replaced them with kids who could care less about history....  They spend more than the baby boomers for gimmicks and thrive on silly crap.....

WoWs is changing as WoTs did and it is only a few more months till the game I just joined ceases to be anything near historical...........soon, it will be just another arcade FPS filled with kids who could care less about tactics, roles or teams.....

The radar and HE spam meta were marketing tests................the kids won.  Time for many of us to start looking elsewhere again........it's deja vu.   Sorry, it is the way this will go.....there's too much money on the line for it not to.

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16 hours ago, Pytheas said:

If they want to fix a broken boat, they can start with the Wistah

Also broken. I can't even imagine the kind of thinking that lead to the development of those high ROF ships. They add zero fun to the game. 

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1 hour ago, TexJapan said:

  It is too early.  Most of the Kit and Haru are played by experienced players.   Most of the folks who are negative about them don't have them. 

imo, people predicting a Harugumo nerf:

50% people that just got wrecked by one and are salty.

50% people who just wrecked other people with one and think its too good to last.

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