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Yorck — German Tier VII cruiser.

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Yorck — German Tier VII cruiser.

Owing to her well-balanced characteristics, the ship surpassed the first generation cruisers of her time, that were subject to the Washington Naval Treaty, in terms of protection, and light cruisers in terms of artillery power.
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This topic is the starting point for discussing this type of cruisers.
When a full-fledged guide appears, this topic will be replaced.

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Worthy of as much contempt as you can have for a pixelbote.

Armour is ineffective except in getting citadelled more trivially than Nurnberg and Kinogsberg COMBINED, guns cannot keep up with hull traverse even with equipment and EM skill, torpedoes are a bad joke as it lacks the armour and speed to close (battleships no longer charge German cruisers, they've learnt well enough), engine dies if sneezed upon, also has terribad camo.

The guns also have the worst possible combination: high muzzle velocity and high drag. This means no railguns like Russianbias cruisers, and also no shooting from island cover like non-Russian light cruisers. The ONLY upside is the high HE pen, which does not even register (given the gun calibre) compared to all the downsides.

 

The only boat worse than this thing for tier I know of is perhaps Seattle. But this is a Tier 7 and thus a less ridiculous Free XP sink, hence the Seattle might actually be worse. Otherwise, without considering that, this is the worst ship in the game.

 

If you're going to post individual good games to brag against my claim, don't bother waving your e-peen around. Overall stats for ship or get out.

Edited by Guardian54
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6 hours ago, Guardian54 said:

Worthy of as much contempt as you can have for a pixelbote.

Armour is ineffective except in getting citadelled more trivially than Nurnberg and Kinogsberg COMBINED, guns cannot keep up with hull traverse even with equipment and EM skill, torpedoes are a bad joke as it lacks the armour and speed to close (battleships no longer charge German cruisers, they've learnt well enough), engine dies if sneezed upon, also has terribad camo.

The guns also have the worst possible combination: high muzzle velocity and high drag. This means no railguns like Russianbias cruisers, and also no shooting from island cover like non-Russian light cruisers. The ONLY upside is the high HE pen, which does not even register (given the gun calibre) compared to all the downsides.

 

The only boat worse than this thing for tier I know of is perhaps Seattle. But this is a Tier 7 and thus a less ridiculous Free XP sink, hence the Seattle might actually be worse. Otherwise, without considering that, this is the worst ship in the game.

 

If you're going to post individual good games to brag against my claim, don't bother waving your e-peen around. Overall stats for ship or get out.

Hi Guardian54.

Your statistics in the Yorck seem pretty solid, doing well above the server average for damage.  Without seeing replays, I'm not sure what it is about your situation that makes the Yorck so disagreeable.

She is the KM cruiser oddity, especially due to her shell ballistics.  Like all KM cruisers, however, she isn't intended to play close in during early match, and her shell arcs don't allow her to camp close to islands like the USN and RN cruisers.  I use her excellent range and good HE shell ballistics to kite.  You might be aware that WG plans to buff the shell ballistics (possibly in 0.7.9).  Time-to-target for HE will improve somewhat, but AP will improve dramatically, which should make AP viable beyond 10km.

While the Yorck technically has a turtleback, her 16mm bow and stern is overmatched by all battleships (including the Scharnhorst), so she shouldn't be trying to tank battleship salvos.  Because she is beefier than the Nürnberg and Königsberg, she is prone to more full penetrations and fewer overpens.

Her turrets are relatively slow because the 210mm guns are very potent for tier VII, which--I think--is also why WG wanted to limit the viability of AP at range.  WG slows turrets as a way to balance ships (same reason the new tier-VI Pensacola has slow turrets).  Conversely, the Yorck is unusually nimble for a KM cruiser with a relatively quick rudder and small turning radius.  To me, this magnifies the perceived slowness of the turrets.

Like all of her KM siblings, her torpedo systems were never intended for long-range engagements like that of IJN and even some RN cruisers.  Her torpedo systems are mainly for ambush situations--opponents coming around islands, or you closing the distance under cover and striking when the opponent is distracted or cannot escape.

I've included the statics for my Yorck play from the last several months.  Admittedly, earlier in my WoWs career, I didn't play as well, partly because I had not mastered the KM cruiser play style, and partly because I was not following good cruiser practices in general.  Since then, she's become my favorite tier-VII cruiser, followed closely by the Helena.

Agree or disagree with my feedback, but either way, good luck.

--An Iolair Ghorm (The Blue Eagle)

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1 hour ago, AnIolairGhorm said:

Without seeing replays, I'm not sure what it is about your situation that makes the Yorck so disagreeable.

It is almost certain to be the rate of fire (i.e. shells per minute) coupled with awful ballistics (i.e. almost frustrating at long range as getting pelted by a Harugumo in my Tier 8+ ships which is "NEEDS DOWNFALL" level rage) and relatively low alpha for when they do actually hit.

Nurnberg was a fire hose that didn't have the ballistics problem and could just lol HE forever. Yorck's ROF is utterly awful in comparison, and low number of hits = less reliable at starting fires.

Also the Nurnberg felt more nimble than the Yorck, understandable given the size disparity but when Yorck's turrets cannot keep up it's both less agile AND less able to use its agility.

 

Also my cruiser play has not a wooden nickel of a clue what island-humping is or how to do it properly (and everyone runs away when I try) so I'm generally addicted to rabid DEUS VULT hyper-aggression and baiting shots, which works well enough if your turrets can keep up with the hull, but if you have to stop turning for even 2 seconds to shoot... welp.

The firepower characteristics are utterly incomprehensible given how Tier 7 Pensacola was superior in every way (able to pen 99% of what Yorck's HE could pen) from shells per minute to ricochet angles, and Pensacola is now down at Tier 6, with the only thing that it has worse than Yorck being lack of torpedoes.

Best explanation I have is that it's a German boat in a Russian game.

 

I counter your claim that 210mm are somehow special on a cruiser at Tier 7 when every other heavy cruiser has better rounds per minute and generally better guns/handling.

Edited by Guardian54

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39 minutes ago, Guardian54 said:

It is almost certain to be the rate of fire (i.e. shells per minute) coupled with awful ballistics (i.e. almost frustrating at long range as getting pelted by a Harugumo in my Tier 8+ ships which is "NEEDS DOWNFALL" level rage) and relatively low alpha for when they do actually hit.

Nurnberg was a fire hose that didn't have the ballistics problem and could just lol HE forever. Yorck's ROF is utterly awful in comparison, and low number of hits = less reliable at starting fires.

Also the Nurnberg felt more nimble than the Yorck, understandable given the size disparity but when Yorck's turrets cannot keep up it's both less agile AND less able to use its agility.

 

Also my cruiser play has not a wooden nickel of a clue what island-humping is or how to do it properly (and everyone runs away when I try) so I'm generally addicted to rabid DEUS VULT hyper-aggression and baiting shots, which works well enough if your turrets can keep up with the hull, but if you have to stop turning for even 2 seconds to shoot... welp.

The firepower characteristics are utterly incomprehensible given how Tier 7 Pensacola was superior in every way (able to pen 99% of what Yorck's HE could pen) from shells per minute to ricochet angles, and Pensacola is now down at Tier 6, with the only thing that it has worse than Yorck being lack of torpedoes.

Best explanation I have is that it's a German boat in a Russian game.

 

I counter your claim that 210mm are somehow special on a cruiser at Tier 7 when every other heavy cruiser has better rounds per minute and generally better guns/handling.

The Yorck's reload at 12s matches the Algerie for the fastest reload of all heavy cruisers at tier VII (USN at 13+s, IJN at 14+s).  Even the tier-VII Pensacola was slower reload (15s) and had slower turrets (36s).  The Pensacola benefits from the favorable USN cruiser AP pen angles, where the Yorck's HE benefits from the KM one-quarter pen ratio (i.e., can pen 52mm compared with 33mm for non-KM 203mm HE).  The Yorck's HE alpha is 2900/shell, compared with 2800 for USN and French 203mm, and compared with 3300 for IJN 203mm.

If you're firing AP at targets beyond 10km (or even 8km), I recommend you stop since I totally agree the ballistics get really wonky.  I generally only fire HE at targets beyond 10km, regardless of angle presented.

The Yorck's turret traverse is indeed second slowest of tier-VII heavy cruisers at 34.62s.  In that regard, I agree its challenging, especially in closer quarters.  However, if one is playing at range, firing on targets 12+km away, turret rotation is less critical.  That being said, the Yorck is one of the two KM cruisers for which I take Expert Marksman.  Frankly, my hunch is that at some point WG will also improve the Yorck's turret rotation since it is being power-crept by the Algerie and New Orleans (~25s), in which case Expert Marksman will be unnecessary.

Comparing the Yorck and Nürnberg is kind of apples and oranges.  The Nürnberg is a machine gun because it's a light cruiser.  It's also super-squishy with the least HP of all tier-VI cruisers save the Leander (which has Repair Party), so WG "balances" the Nürnberg by giving it the fastest reload of all tier-VI light cruisers and 360-degree rear turrets.  I find the HE ballistics on the Yorck are totally playable, but yes, because the RoF is slower than any light cruiser, aiming and learning the ballistics are more critical.

Given your positive remarks regarding the Pensacola, my guess is that you learned to master its shell ballistics.  The Yorck should be no different, but the shell behavior is different.  USN shells tend to have higher arcs, but time-to-target is pretty linear with range.  The KM cruiser shells are lighter, so they are rail guns out of the barrels, but speed falls off much more rapidly than USN shells, so time-to-target is much more non-linear, especially beyond 8-10km.

Given your comments about "island-camping", I suspect your cruiser play might be too aggressive.  The Yorck doesn't island-camp like USN cruisers, but like all cruisers, it needs to be played so that you limit which targets can shoot at you, and you keep an eye on the ones that can.

I suspect the challenges you've described echo those who have also disliked the Yorck.  Don't get me wrong--I know the Yorck is disliked by many.  I would like to believe (biases admitted) that part of it is learning the ship, which is true of any vessel.  Some are just easier to learn than others.  I'm not blind enough, however, to ignore that there's a reason the Yorck is at the bottom of the pile for tier-VII heavy cruiser stats across on the NA server.  I think this is precisely why WG is tweaking the ballistics to make them more "German"--flatter arcs, faster time-to-target.  I personally am quite excited about this change, and I hope it helps others enjoy the Yorck more as I have.

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9 hours ago, AnIolairGhorm said:

I generally only fire HE at targets beyond 10km, regardless of angle presented.

I can't switch to AP quickly enough when they present broadside at under 8km.

Beyond that I can't hit anything with AP anyhow, so HE all day every day. Adequate but unsatisfying.

EM is basically mandatory, and that turret rotation module being put on after you have your commander is ideal if you can wait for a module sale.

And also, Yorck's reload is equal to those? Um, nope. Not even close. When you have to stop twitching for a few seconds (which often has to be delayed to not be lol deleted) to finally get your guns on target, that more than nerfs the Yorck's actual reload down enough. And THAT is the REALLY ragey part of this slag heap.

I don't give a wooden nickel what your guns can do on paper. I only care if they are reliably on target. My T-54 stats in World of Tanks aren't anything special for being done like 3 years ago, except that I never fired a single premium shell, because the gun handling was just that good and I could leverage the paper DPM... and this was before Type 5 and their ilk.

9 hours ago, AnIolairGhorm said:

I suspect your cruiser play might be too aggressive.

The highest record on Priority Target I've walked away from without losing more than 20% of my HP was, if I recall correctly, having at least 11 guys on the enemy team aimed on me... In a Cleveland, just southwest of C on Trap.

Yeah, I suspect my cruiser play might be too WoT-inspired. 15K+ matches where you learn cowardice is the fastest way to lose isn't easy to unlearn...

By the time the boat will change I'll be out of it, ugh.

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5 hours ago, Guardian54 said:

And also, Yorck's reload is equal to those? Um, nope. Not even close. When you have to stop twitching for a few seconds (which often has to be delayed to not be lol deleted) to finally get your guns on target, that more than nerfs the Yorck's actual reload down enough. And THAT is the REALLY ragey part of this slag heap.

Well, I'm sorry you've had such a dissatisfying experience with the ship.  Based on your comments and without seeing replays, all I can discern is that you are likely trying to play the ship to a style that it's not aligned to.  If time between salvos is substantially more than the posted 12s because you're constantly waiting for turrets to catch up, then I suspect you aren't leveraging its range and planning/anticipating your targets where turret traverse time (for any ship) is less critical.

Moreover, when you're playing cruisers and routinely seeing high priority target counts, then you almost certainly are playing them too aggressively.  Typically, if I'm in a situation where I have more than two folks aiming at me, especially if at least one is a battleship, then I find it's time to silence my guns, go into concealment, re-position, and then re-engage.

I'm not sure how close you are to getting the Hipper, but her turrets (and those of her bigger sisters) are the fastest of heavy cruisers in the game at 22.5s/180 degrees.  Expert Marksman is generally not required (only reduces the time to 20.8s).  I hope you find that vessel more agreeable.

Either way, good luck.

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5 hours ago, AnIolairGhorm said:

If time between salvos is substantially more than the posted 12s because you're constantly waiting for turrets to catch up

Been working on getting better about that as I ground through the damned thing.

5 hours ago, AnIolairGhorm said:

silence my guns, go into concealment

This is agreeable with a Cleveland or Buffalo. Not so much for German visible-from-orbit cruisers though... I'm mostly trapped with the strat of "sees enemy or gets lit, turn the hell around, shake your stern every few seconds as if you were twerking in slow motion, and try to go full Parthian Shot".

5 hours ago, AnIolairGhorm said:

I'm not sure how close you are to getting the Hipper

About 90K XP on Yorck right now, so not that far.

I still put EM on all my German cruiser captains IIRC, though I might be able to take it off eventually if Hindy turrets prove sufficiently twitchy.

Edited by Guardian54

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28 minutes ago, Guardian54 said:

This is agreeable with a Cleveland or Buffalo. Not so much for German visible-from-orbit cruisers though

Unless you can island-camp or otherwise get into cover, you'll want to engage from beyond your detection range so that you can silence guns and get into concealment.  Fair warning, the detection ranges (at best) for Hipper, Roon, and Hindenburg are 10.9km, 11.1km, and 12.3km, respectively.  Since their ballistics are very good, playing from beyond your surface detection range is viable.

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17 minutes ago, AnIolairGhorm said:

Unless you can island-camp or otherwise get into cover, you'll want to engage from beyond your detection range so that you can silence guns and get into concealment.  Fair warning, the detection ranges (at best) for Hipper, Roon, and Hindenburg are 10.9km, 11.1km, and 12.3km, respectively.  Since their ballistics are very good, playing from beyond your surface detection range is viable.

The main issue I have with trying to go dark as Yorck is that this happens:

1) I fire while moving toward enemy if I only see 1 BB, preferably AFTER my team's BBs have shot and they get into a trade.

2) I turn TOWARD enemy because turning sideways would get me deleted

3) I wait for the first BB reply salvo to land, then throw helm hard over to run away if there are less than 5 guys aiming at me (i.e. no second BB holding fire to delete me). If there are 5 guys or more though, well that's what islands to disengage are for.

...If I see 2 BBs or more then I turn around before I start firing, or wait for an ally to draw fire first.

Trying to go dark with the Yorck's speed, typical BB speeds, and the range window is hard for me to manage effectively without being predictable to get deleted after you go dark... and then there's how I often get spotted by a DD before I can even start shooting at the enemy BBs.

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On 9/17/2018 at 3:52 PM, Guardian54 said:

The main issue I have with trying to go dark as Yorck is that this happens

Yeah, you really want to know where their BBs are in advance. use terrain to mask your approach to objectives, and limit how/when opponents can fire on you.  Being out in the open within range of five BBs is kind of suicide...

Edited by AnIolairGhorm
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Still grinding Yorck as well...can't wait for the shell velocity buff...might make AP a little more usable and make it easier to hit DDs, too...

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Yorck changes 0.7.9

Tier VII German cruiser Yorck: HE and AP shells’ 10 km flight time has been reduced from 5.65 and 6.72 seconds to 5.09 and 5.14 seconds accordingly. Damage caused by AP shells has been increased from 5,500 to 5,600. These changes pull the cruiser's ballistics in line with its branch, emphasizing the effectiveness of AP shells specific for German ships.

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OK, I've only had the chance to sail one match in the Yorck since the shell ballistics change came out with 0.7.9.  However, even in that one match, I observed the AP changes are very noticeable and really excellent.  No issues hitting targets at range.  The HE is faster, too, but not dramatically so.  Good luck, captains, and happy sailing!

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10 hours ago, AnIolairGhorm said:

OK, I've only had the chance to sail one match in the Yorck since the shell ballistics change came out with 0.7.9.  However, even in that one match, I observed the AP changes are very noticeable and really excellent.  No issues hitting targets at range.  The HE is faster, too, but not dramatically so.  Good luck, captains, and happy sailing!

As I also posted to the 0.7.9 forum thread:  I played several matches today in the Yorck.  The ballistics are definitely much better, especially the AP.  With this change, I think WG has brought the Yorck's gun systems in line with her bigger sisters, with one important exception--her turret traverse speed.  They are still the second slowest of tier-VII heavy cruisers, which is decidedly "un-German", but one step at a time as I'm otherwise very pleased with the ballistics change.

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Note that her wiki page is still written to reflect the old shell ballistics.  An update is forthcoming to reflect changes in 0.7.9.

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I've played a couple matches post-patch.

The shell ballistics improvement is nice, but does not address by far the most common grievance which is the turrets not keeping up with hull traverse.

 

This thing was basically the World of Warships version of the SP I C before the buff. Now? It's maybe marginally less terrible.

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On 9/22/2018 at 10:56 PM, AnIolairGhorm said:

Hi Folks!  In case anyone is interested, the latest replay I've posted to my YouTube channel discusses the shell ballistics changes for the Yorck.

 

That was a great video! I enjoyed it and found it very useful to know about the new ballistics for the Yorck.

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2 hours ago, GreenHeart06 said:

That was a great video! I enjoyed it and found it very useful to know about the new ballistics for the Yorck.

I'm very pleased to hear you found the video useful.  I've been using the AP on the Yorck much more often now, getting very good results, including a devastating strike on an opposing Atlanta at more than 14km.  😀

 

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So, while I'll certainly admit that the Yorck could use a buff, I always like to throw the concept that there is no such thing as a "bad" ship. (Besides Krasny Krym lol)

Any ship can be good if you take advantage of the pros and avoid con situations. For instance, the Yorck has two torpedo tubes carrying three torpedoes on each side, perfect for ambushes. And while the Yorck is prone to citadels, use the priority target commander skill and make use of the armor by angling. It has generous range and mediocre fire chance. AP isn't bad, and is quite useful against cruisers who decide that existence sucks and charge in front of you showing their broadside, which happens a lot more than you'd think. And while I'm still kinda new to the forums, I am a firm believer that any ship can be good if played right.

(Including the Krasny Krym. True story.)

~Cheers

Edited by ZenTheRebel

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