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GiN_nTonic

Moskva Concealment should be buffed

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With the addition of the Worcester, Stalingrad, and even Conqueror I believe the Moskva doesn't "deserve" to have its concealment be BB rated (if not actually worse).  Add to these additions the buffs to Yamato and upper tier French cruisers there has been a fairly substantial power creep around the Moskva.  It just doesn't feel logical to me that BB's can out-spot any cruiser - and the Moskva's reputation of being a quasi-BB is surely diminished with the arrival of the Stalingrad....not that Moskva was really as tanky as it reputation suggested anyways.

Not suggesting general buff in any way - its a good ship.  I just feel/suggest the concealment rating is hard to justify in today's game with additions and changes we've seen.

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6 minutes ago, GiN_nTonic said:

With the addition of the Worcester, Stalingrad, and even Conqueror I believe the Moskva doesn't "deserve" to have its concealment be BB rated (if not actually worse).  Add to these additions the buffs to Yamato and upper tier French cruisers there has been a fairly substantial power creep around the Moskva.  It just doesn't feel logical to me that BB's can out-spot any cruiser - and the Moskva's reputation of being a quasi-BB is surely diminished with the arrival of the Stalingrad....not that Moskva was really as tanky as it reputation suggested anyways.

Not suggesting general buff in any way - its a good ship.  I just feel/suggest the concealment rating is hard to justify in today's game with additions and changes we've seen.

    They literally just buffed its armor.

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12 minutes ago, Alabamastan said:

    They literally just buffed its armor.

Yep.  50mm bow plating more than makes up for its lack of concealment.

Then again, it is a HUGE ship.  It's concealment, or lack thereof, should be reflective of that.

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40 minutes ago, GiN_nTonic said:

and the Moskva's reputation of being a quasi-BB is surely diminished with the arrival of the Stalingrad....not that Moskva was really as tanky as it reputation suggested anyways.

Moskva is still excellent at tanking, perhabs even more than Stalingrad. She has less of that vulnerable 25mm plating than Stalingrad, and takes less damage from fires (given the shorter fire duration). Not to mention the lower Torpedo Damage Reduction on Stalingrad.

The only real advantage of Stalingrad is that she has 7k hp more

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I dont think Moskva should have good concealment....give it the worse concealment for a cruiser in the game if you want (thought I think Stalingrad should that that honor).  To give other BBs of tier 10 better concealment than a cruiser seems out of wack to me.  Moskva isn't that tanky. 

My opinion is mostly based upon intro of Worcester, which is changing tier 10 game-play...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHMmyMjjQJM

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moskva can't bow tank with its 25mm nose

concealment buff is needed considering it has worse concealment than Yamato, that's ridiculous

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On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 8:21 AM, SavageTactical said:

Dude, the thing can reliably bow tank Yamato shells.

Reliably
My 
[edited]
 
Because Yamato actually have to point at the lower portion of the bow where it actually is 50mm, and even then, that only happens at Uber close range. At any higher ranges, due to dispersion, shells end up hitting the side plating, the upper 25mm portion, the superstructure, and other parts of the ship that aren't 50mm. 
Yamato may not be able to crack open Moskva in two salvos, but it will still easily deal 8-14k damage. It just stops citadels from coming through so frequently. Belt tanking is still a better option and bow tanking overall in Moskva isn't the smartest idea in a lot of scenarios. Of course it works. But focused fire will still drop it. The 50mm plate buff was minor. Just means at closer ranges battleships can't aim at the waterline bow and blap you.  

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5 hours ago, Happy668 said:

 considering it has worse concealment than Yamato, that's ridiculous

That is exactly my point.  I believe there is only 1 BB at tier X that even has worse concealment than the Moskva and that is the Großer Kurfürst at default 18.18 Km.  The Moskva has 18 Km.

Moskva is a natural predator ship to the Worcester if not for the concealment factor. 

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On 9/7/2018 at 3:18 PM, GiN_nTonic said:

That is exactly my point.  I believe there is only 1 BB at tier X that even has worse concealment than the Moskva and that is the Großer Kurfürst at default 18.18 Km.  The Moskva has 18 Km.

Sorry for the slight necro.

The Moskva actually has slightly worse concealment than the Kurfurst on account of the fact that CE has a larger % bonus effect on BBs than cruisers.  As far as I know of all the ships between Tier 8 and 10, the only one with worse max concealment than the Moskva is the Stalingrad.  

Edited by yashma

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tbh, something might've* been needed before the 50mm lower bow and Hindenburg nerf. Now, not really...  

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I'm new to the Moskva, have as much concealment added as possible. On a few of the "smaller" maps its a pain to play, as soon as you hit the "W" key you spotted (yes, I know it not that bad). I actually got in to a heated debut in chat because I was not moving up at the start of the game by a DD and an Mino. When I made the statement on my concealment range, it was well you shouldn't be running a commander that was less then 10pt. Its not a 10 point commander. It that game I was getting set on fire left and right. Asking for help from the mino and got nothing but [edited]. When he died from torps as he sat in smoke, me started an in chat campaign to report me, when a few BB spoke up and tole him to [edit] off.

From tier 7, 8, and 9 there is a slow loss of concealment, then you get to the Moskva and you say to yourself. [Edited] I did not click the resupply button, or something. I would like to see 1KM drop in detection or bigger maps with more island so I can get in to protection before I open  fire.

But I'm still learning how to use her.

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Moskva and Stalingrad are Russian's version of BB's.

Russia doesn't have but one battleship, they do however have Battleships that take up Cruiser slots. With Radar to boot.

but it's detection is not that bad, at 22%off detection, you can end up at 14km. Or 13.8km's with camo.

For a tough as nails Russian "Cruiser"; aka Battleship, that's a nasty surprise for any other cruiser to have that thing show up (and considering its shells and velocity) right on top of you.

I don't own one, but stats-wise (and from having to face them) they are one of the more powerful cruisers in terms of engaging other cruisers and BB's.

Edited by Levits
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you just have to play it from the rear as a long range shooter.  I basically sit at spawn at the start.  Get the Legendary Mod.  Helps a ton.  I agree however that concealment is a bit too large.

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"Get the Legendary Mod.  Helps a ton."

After having gone through the grind of getting this Mod, I am so sick of the Moskova that I haven't used it yet.  It is very easy to say get the mod, however the process, isn't so easy, especially the Base XP section.

In many respects, the Moskova is so weak that other players concentrate on the Moskova even when there are better, closer, targets as it is so easy to score points against.

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I play the Moskva a lot (both in randoms and clan battles) and agree a 1km buff to its concealment (bringing it to 12.8 after CE and Concealment mod) would be nice but I personally don't think its needed.   Its shell velocity, range and accuracy (19.1 with Legendary mod)  means one can hit anything they can see (assuming there is not a sand bar in the way).  

Sure everyone shoots at you (because you are dangerous to everything) but I feel that is part of my job as a Moskva driver, draw fire away from my team mates.  BB's can seem to keep themselves from firing thus giving away their position and intentions way to early.   Can that go bad quickly if RNG decides it not your day?   Sure but I find more often then not, I can both deliver significant damage and keep pushing back DD's with the 11.7 KM radar and the rail guns.   Playing it 11.7km of the furthest edge of a cap, or 13.8-15km if there is a DM/Woooster helping early to mid game (engage targets in the space between your detection range and max range of your guns) then pushing in with a plan (not simply yoloing in and getting over extended) once the opfor has been thinned out some again drawing focus (oh <bleep> Moskva!  KEEELL IT!!" away from your friendly BBs and DDs. while pushing anything that shows some broadside (not to mention setting fires)

So yeah.. a little better concealment would be nice but its not really needed as far as I'm concerned. 

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On 11/22/2018 at 7:56 PM, ReddWolfz said:

 (19.1 with Legendary mod)

 

btw - Moskva range with Legendary Mod is 21km 

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Thank you for the correction   I messed up the numbers in my head there.    with legendary it 19.44*1.08== 20.99 or simply 21KM  again thank you 

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On 9/6/2018 at 2:56 AM, GiN_nTonic said:

I dont think Moskva should have good concealment....give it the worse concealment for a cruiser in the game if you want (thought I think Stalingrad should that that honor).  To give other BBs of tier 10 better concealment than a cruiser seems out of wack to me.  Moskva isn't that tanky. 

My opinion is mostly based upon intro of Worcester, which is changing tier 10 game-play...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHMmyMjjQJM

 

On 9/6/2018 at 9:21 AM, SavageTactical said:

Dude, the thing can reliably bow tank Yamato shells.

^Beat me to it... this whole thread gave me a laugh. I can bow tank against Yamatos and WIN. Nothing else to see here close the thread lol

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On 12/3/2018 at 8:53 PM, HeathenForay said:

 

^Beat me to it... this whole thread gave me a laugh. I can bow tank against Yamatos and WIN. Nothing else to see here close the thread lol

Except its not true...perhaps in your imaginary world this is a true and legit point, but in the real game you cannot "bow tank" Yamato shells.  FFS not even most legit BBs can bow tank Yamato shells.

The only thing that can help you "bow tank" Yamato shells is RNG.  

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Dude, give it up. It has 50mm armor on it's bow and can bounce Yamato shells all day long. Two matches in the ship and you're already screaming for a buff? The ship's massive, it's concealment reflects that.

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12 hours ago, HeathenForay said:

Dude, give it up. It has 50mm armor on it's bow and can bounce Yamato shells all day long. Two matches in the ship and you're already screaming for a buff? The ship's massive, it's concealment reflects that.

Dude...you're completely full of crap and delusional.  The "bow armor" is 25mm not 50mm.  This means a tier 8 BB can over-match...and you can't bow tank.

Here is a quick link to prove my point (i link to the correct part in the video) - besides the fact you can see this clearly in port.  The video is "deceptive armor" due to the fact 

 

And as a general FYI i've played the ship in ranked more than general battles.

 

bow.png

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...as an additional note.

I think WG could provide options to Moskva players through module upgrades and/or consumables.  Something like the option to slot an extra concealment mod in place of radar - provide a give-n-take over straight buff.

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50mm armor belt can bounce shots all day long. You want to resort to petty insults because you want to make your point fine, I won't be bumping this stupid whine thread anymore to respond to you. Flamu vid, yup seen it. That little tiny bit of 25 mm needs quite a bit of RNG to get 1 maybe 2 shells in if they're lucky all of which will result in a pissing contest with you should this continue. Learn to bait shots on your belt, bye now.

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