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Vulgarr

CV Rework Condensed Version

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In case you missed it live.
 

 

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So far what is proposed I think will bring in a new generation of players into the game to populate the CV contingent to make the game more diverse. I think the Devs are going in the right direction for the most part. The only peev I have is that airplanes cannot have unlimited range much like ships don't have unlimited range for their guns. For that I suggest a consummable to extend for that one squad to stay in the air longer but when the timer for the consummable times out its a U-Turn and back to base.  That will make the CV push closer to target areas to attack enemies.  Of course none of what I suggest is cast in concrete as WOW is just trying to program the basics - let alone the minute details.  But this suggestion for consummables brings up some ideas. Some had suggested SMOKE Bombs from planes to obsecure or protect friendly ships.  Another is flying in first person view. Or first person view when your going to bomb or torp a ship.   Joystick support would be nice for that.  Anyways...all kind of ideas will appear in the near future I am sure.  Whats YOURS?

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I know we are stuck with CV's in this game, but if ever another naval action type game comes out and it dose not have the kill you over the horizon, air cancer arty ships, then I will play it and hope they don't screw it up with gimmicky power creep and CV's that really don't belong in a surface action naval sim.

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1 hour ago, dionkraft said:

So far what is proposed I think will bring in a new generation of players into the game to populate the CV contingent to make the game more diverse. I think the Devs are going in the right direction for the most part. The only peev I have is that airplanes cannot have unlimited range much like ships don't have unlimited range for their guns. For that I suggest a consummable to extend for that one squad to stay in the air longer but when the timer for the consummable times out its a U-Turn and back to base.  That will make the CV push closer to target areas to attack enemies.  Of course none of what I suggest is cast in concrete as WOW is just trying to program the basics - let alone the minute details.  But this suggestion for consummables brings up some ideas. Some had suggested SMOKE Bombs from planes to obsecure or protect friendly ships.  Another is flying in first person view. Or first person view when your going to bomb or torp a ship.   Joystick support would be nice for that.  Anyways...all kind of ideas will appear in the near future I am sure.  Whats YOURS?

From my understanding you don't have direct control over your carrier, only can set waypoints to move it, (missed a lot so could be wrong)

If you can't control your carrier then the planes need entire map range, otherwise moving close enough to use your planes would be a death sentence.

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1 hour ago, Ruthless4u said:

From my understanding you don't have direct control over your carrier, only can set waypoints to move it, (missed a lot so could be wrong)

If you can't control your carrier then the planes need entire map range, otherwise moving close enough to use your planes would be a death sentence.

From what I gathered - you can steer the CV via the mini map with way points. Someone said the speed can be controlled as well.  But as i suggested having the CV on the corner of the map sending planes out is a waste in my opinion. The CV captain should move the CV to involve himself in a more strategic fashion than just park the boat the whole game.  Thats why I suggested that the flight time should be limited so that the captain can move to areas which benefit his team as well as add some risk to his game just like everyone else does.  In some ways if the enemy CV is spotted then you could plan your distance to avoid plane strikes as well from them. Welll, unless the CV has the LONG DISTANCE PLANE consummable LOL! 

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2 hours ago, Turbotush said:

I know we are stuck with CV's in this game, but if ever another naval action type game comes out and it dose not have the kill you over the horizon, air cancer arty ships, then I will play it and hope they don't screw it up with gimmicky power creep and CV's that really don't belong in a surface action naval sim.

I agree , I'll do the same and bail on WOW's in a heartbeat if someone builds a game like that . Let WG put a no CV button in the game and see what happens to their precious sky cancer then .

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3 hours ago, Turbotush said:

I know we are stuck with CV's in this game, but if ever another naval action type game comes out and it dose not have the kill you over the horizon, air cancer arty ships, then I will play it and hope they don't screw it up with gimmicky power creep and CV's that really don't belong in a surface action naval sim.

But this is not a sim, not even close.

 

If you have a game featuring a lot of WW2 era ships, then you will have a lot of players wanting carriers. They were simply too big a part of the war, and enough famous ships for a playerbase not to want them included.

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27 minutes ago, Ruthless4u said:

If you have a game featuring a lot of WW2 era ships, then you will have a lot of players wanting carriers. They were simply too big a part of the war, and enough famous ships for a playerbase not to want them included.

Except if they have the effect they had in real life. Making every other type of ship obsolete (except subs, but lets not go there) except as a CV escort. Yes, that is real but is hardly fun and engaging for players not playing CVs. The video looked terrifying if that is the way it plays out in the game (hopefully it isn't). AA seemed largely ineffective, even on ships that are supposed to have decent AA, getting multiple torp hits on targets. Fixing the CV should not make it miserable to play everything else. Too often in the game now it is the quality of the CV players that decide the match.

There are a number of players that are hoping for a CV fix/rework. There is a larger number of players that would rather CVs remain rare or just go away. The reality is trying to engage in surface combat while under even light air attack was a recipe for disaster as the IJN found out attacking Taffy3. WG will need to test this new system very carefully as it could be game breaking.

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47 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Except if they have the effect they had in real life. Making every other type of ship obsolete (except subs, but lets not go there) except as a CV escort. Yes, that is real but is hardly fun and engaging for players not playing CVs. The video looked terrifying if that is the way it plays out in the game (hopefully it isn't). AA seemed largely ineffective, even on ships that are supposed to have decent AA, getting multiple torp hits on targets. Fixing the CV should not make it miserable to play everything else. Too often in the game now it is the quality of the CV players that decide the match.

There are a number of players that are hoping for a CV fix/rework. There is a larger number of players that would rather CVs remain rare or just go away. The reality is trying to engage in surface combat while under even light air attack was a recipe for disaster as the IJN found out attacking Taffy3. WG will need to test this new system very carefully as it could be game breaking.

AA was set to zero for most of the demonstration,  man.  Pay attention and do some digging before jumping to conclusions.  The one instance where it ISN'T results in heavy damage for the planes in the squadron after a single pass.

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3 minutes ago, Palladia said:

AA was set to zero for most of the demonstration,  man.  Pay attention and do some digging before jumping to conclusions.  The one instance where it ISN'T results in heavy damage for the planes in the squadron after a single pass.

Even with the AA turned down (heard rumor that the close-range AA batteries were shut down on the bots), the player was still losing aircraft if they lingered too long. I don't play CVs, but the changes look like a step in a good direction.

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7 minutes ago, Red_Hammer_Fleet said:

Even with the AA turned down (heard rumor that the close-range AA batteries were shut down on the bots), the player was still losing aircraft if they lingered too long. I don't play CVs, but the changes look like a step in a good direction.

Close range AA is the undodgeable AA.  Entering into the close range bubble immediately begins dealing damage to planes.  My hope is that it depends on proximity,  otherwise dive bombers and rockets are NEVER going to be a good idea over torpedo bombers.

But yeah,  if they'd had AA on for the entire duration we'd have seen a lot more planes going down and a lot less demonstrating.

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1 hour ago, Palladia said:

Close range AA is the undodgeable AA.  Entering into the close range bubble immediately begins dealing damage to planes.  My hope is that it depends on proximity,  otherwise dive bombers and rockets are NEVER going to be a good idea over torpedo bombers.

But yeah,  if they'd had AA on for the entire duration we'd have seen a lot more planes going down and a lot less demonstrating.

Indeed. I won't blame them for setting it up the way they did. It seems like the new system will lower both the skill floor and skill ceiling, while still retaining some requirement of skill to inflict damage.

It does look like a more balanced system, here's hoping it works out.

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27 minutes ago, Red_Hammer_Fleet said:

Indeed. I won't blame them for setting it up the way they did. It seems like the new system will lower both the skill floor and skill ceiling, while still retaining some requirement of skill to inflict damage.

It does look like a more balanced system, here's hoping it works out.

I'm crossing my fingers.  I personally like the RTS system but the strafing mechanic kinda drove me off of CV's.  I was decent with it,  the problem was that it wasn't fun for me.  It removed a tactical decision ((Where to put your fighters and who to attack with them)) and replaced it with a twitch one.  While this ENTIRE system is being changed to a twitch system,  you now just have to focus on attacking enemy ships and I am okay with that.  I realize, however,  that a bunch of current CV players aren't going to be.

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The problem I had with CV play was more what happened once you ran out of planes than anything else.

I'm not a fan of this. It's a play experience that's not a ship, which is what World of Warships is supposed to be. If you wanted to play with planes on naval attack missions, you have World of Warplanes for this. At least in the RTS setup, your carrier was one of the units to play with.

I mean if you're going to allow players to be airplanes in a game about boats, why the hell don't we have submarines yet?

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I have for years said you should get direct control of you secondaries on CVs. Mostly I talk about restricting until you run out of planes but all time may not be bad either.

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9 hours ago, Norsehound said:

The problem I had with CV play was more what happened once you ran out of planes than anything else.

I'm not a fan of this. It's a play experience that's not a ship, which is what World of Warships is supposed to be. If you wanted to play with planes on naval attack missions, you have World of Warplanes for this. At least in the RTS setup, your carrier was one of the units to play with.

I mean if you're going to allow players to be airplanes in a game about boats, why the hell don't we have submarines yet?

I too want to see the physical CV kept in the game. I enjoy actually having a ship to play with, not just planes, even if said ship is garbage. I mean, you can still ram or cap with it. You can't do either with planes, but especially the latter.

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20 hours ago, Ruthless4u said:

But this is not a sim, not even close.

 

If you have a game featuring a lot of WW2 era ships, then you will have a lot of players wanting carriers. They were simply too big a part of the war, and enough famous ships for a playerbase not to want them included.

Then if we go down that road the CV will be the rule and the surface ship the exception.  You might as well call the game "World of CV Warships" were the CV is the key ship and all other ships will be made to support it's needs.  I don't want a game like that, I want to shot and be shot at on terms that are at least fare.  All the CV rework is doing is trying to please all the less then skilled CV drivers...….screw the rest of us.

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I am really sorry they are dumbing down carrier play to make more people play it. It is a shame there will be no need for multiple squadron load outs, no coordinated multi squadron attacks, no scouting, no directing fighters to intercept other planes. No worry about loosing planes with an infinite number per carrier. I actually like the micromanagement and the RTS style, even if it was a bit hectic. But, I guess I am in the extreme minority.
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21 hours ago, Norsehound said:

The problem I had with CV play was more what happened once you ran out of planes than anything else.

I'm not a fan of this. It's a play experience that's not a ship, which is what World of Warships is supposed to be. If you wanted to play with planes on naval attack missions, you have World of Warplanes for this. At least in the RTS setup, your carrier was one of the units to play with.

I mean if you're going to allow players to be airplanes in a game about boats, why the hell don't we have submarines yet?

Precisely right!  I can't say they won't entice more people to play this type (I can't say ship anymore can I?) of gameplay.  That doesn't sound right either, heck lets call it what it is Airplay.

 The RTS is what made this unique, challenging and fun.  

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3 hours ago, OldGrognard said:
I am really sorry they are dumbing down carrier play to make more people play it. It is a shame there will be no need for multiple squadron load outs, no coordinated multi squadron attacks, no scouting, no directing fighters to intercept other planes. No worry about loosing planes with an infinite number per carrier. I actually like the micromanagement and the RTS style, even if it was a bit hectic. But, I guess I am in the extreme minority.

Another good post.  I don't know that I would call 1 in 4 games with CVs present a extreme.  But definitely a minority.

The RTS was what I liked about the CVs.  I was close to spending on a Tier 10 CV then this came out.  Wow, putting the money back into the wallet.  World of Warplanes, which I have just started playing, and actually don't like it much...and have stopped playing doesn't offer that much interest to me.

Now do I continue to play this game as a Destroyer?  No RTS. 

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22 hours ago, Red_Hammer_Fleet said:

Indeed. I won't blame them for setting it up the way they did. It seems like the new system will lower both the skill floor and skill ceiling, while still retaining some requirement of skill to inflict damage.

It does look like a more balanced system, here's hoping it works out.

I'm not sure it will.  It seems like they are just introducing World of Warplanes to the World of Warships.  I've played World of Warplanes.  It's not that fun.

I'm not sure you can say that you can't blame them.  There's a lot of time and effort put into playing this RTS.  Now they're going to dumb it down, so they can crew more money?  The people that are fond of the RTS style can't be very happy with this.  Maybe a minority, but so is every class of ship out there.  Look at it from their perspective.  Change the gameplay of the Battleship to RTS, are you going to like that?  Its one thing to nerf, its another to change the game completely to something you didn't invest time (and admittedly I I'm not in this group) and money.

Hopefully the change is a good one, but for the RTS people there's no alternative.

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no other ship has the ability to ruin a match like a skill gap in cvs. You can be bad in ANY other ship and not cause as much damage to your own team as one bad cv player. This alone is why they need to get rid of cvs all together. 

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Okay I want to cover a few concerns that I have seen in the community that have been answered but may have been missed or overlooked.

I want to see the physical CV kept in the game.
There will be a physical CV in the game that your planes launch from. It will be controlled with waypoints on autopilot. Which is how most CV players steer their carriers in the game already.

I want carrier play to be about the carrier, not planes.
Carrier play has always been about the planes. Even in the current system you spend the whole game controlling squads of planes more than the ship.

Rockets seemed weak compared to torpedoes and bombs.
Rockets are not intended to do large amounts of damage to a ships hit points. They are meant to weaken a ship with fires and module damage.

AA seemed useless and torpedoes seem impossible to dodge.
Bear in mind all you have seen is a preliminary test of the flight control system. AA is still being worked on and as far as torpedoes go, they were being fired on dumbed down AI target ships. Not live players.

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1 minute ago, Vulgarr said:

Okay I want to cover a few concerns that I have seen in the community that have been answered but may have been missed or overlooked.

I want to see the physical CV kept in the game.
There will be a physical CV in the game that your planes launch from. It will be controlled with waypoints on autopilot. Which is how most CV players steer their carriers in the game already.

I want carrier play to be about the carrier, not planes.
Carrier play has always been about the planes. Even in the current system you spend the whole game controlling squads of planes more than the ship.

Rockets seemed weak compared to torpedoes and bombs.
Rockets are not intended to do large amounts of damage to a ships hit points. They are meant to weaken a ship with fires and module damage.

AA seemed useless and torpedoes seem impossible to dodge.
Bear in mind all you have seen is a preliminary test of the flight control system. AA is still being worked on and as far as torpedoes go, they were being fired on dumbed down AI target ships. Not live players.

Thanks that helps a lot:Smile_honoring::Smile_medal:

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On 9/5/2018 at 8:02 AM, nacho_grande_ said:

no other ship has the ability to ruin a match like a skill gap in cvs. You can be bad in ANY other ship and not cause as much damage to your own team as one bad cv player. This alone is why they need to get rid of cvs all together. 

I understand what you're trying to say and yes this is part of the problem with the current carrier mechanic.
When carriers are in the game it becomes vital for the teams survival that the carrier does well. They need to protect their fleet and themselves from the opposite carrier.
No other ship class in the game has a solo ship with that much responsibility in a single match.
If one carrier dominates the other, than the match is almost always virtually lost at that point.

I personally believe this is part of the reason why the CV player base is so small. Too many people don't want to be responsible for losing the match. And I don't blame them. I myself hardly ever play carriers because I know if I come up against a player better at strafing with fighters than me, then the whole match is on my shoulders, and to me, that's not fun.
The rework appeals to me because carriers for the most part will be focusing on the fleets and not each other, since fighters will be AI controlled as a consumable. This means that hunting down the other carriers squadrons shouldn't be the main focus anymore and it will be more the entire fleets responsibility to neutralize the enemy carrier and not yours alone.

 

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