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Irish_Wolfhound11

BOTS in Co-op battles unplayable

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Well it would seem that the "upgrade" on the bots in Co-op battles has hit full force.

There is zero reason to play co-op anymore as you wont be able to learn anything about new ships, or try new combinations as these will now just faceroll you.

I suspect new players will simply uninstall and go to a different game, as I have just done, as these are now nearly impossible to defeat.

Randoms used to be where you'd go to get your face punched in after learning the ropes in Co-op.  Now you don't want to play either, as a new or relatively low to mid skilled player.  Getting smashed in 90% of your games is no way to entice new players to come aboard, nor does it keep the middle of the pack players interested.

This was a horrific idea, and will lead to an exodus of players.  Enjoy the money I spent in the premium shop, it's the last penny or minute of my time this game will see.

It was bad enough before when you had zero ways for a new player to learn the game, this now puts it out of reach except for the top 10% or so of the players.

Let all the trolling "Hur dur git gud" commence since that's all anyone seems to be able to offer on the internet anymore.

 

Former enjoyer of your game,

DOS

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Have a nice evening!

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Instead of a 98.5% winrate people will drop to 95%!!!  Oooohhhhh nnoooooo.

Its not that bad or even that different.

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The only issue is that co op lasts longer, for the same small rewards.

Before the changes playing this mode was a fraction of the time of a Random Battle for a fraction of the earnings.

Now that the battles have been lengthened and approach the duration of Random Battles occasionally they still give a fraction of the earnings.

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7 minutes ago, galspanic said:

Instead of a 98.5% winrate people will drop to 95%!!!  Oooohhhhh nnoooooo.

Its not that bad or even that different.

The av is actually around 92%, iirc. Lol.

 

Still, co-op being harder is a good thing, it's supposed to help you learn, and we learn by being challenged. I played co-op the other day, like 12 rounds, I actually found it easier than it used to be.

 

But then, I've learned.

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6 minutes ago, galspanic said:

Instead of a 98.5% winrate people will drop to 95%!!!  Oooohhhhh nnoooooo.

Its not that bad or even that different.

I think you overestimate the player base.....too many co-op players, this is far to tough to make it fun and entertaining, the whole reason they play co-op to begin with.

WG continues to try to make the players into something they aren't...competitive..:Smile_teethhappy:

 

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21 minutes ago, galspanic said:

Instead of a 98.5% winrate people will drop to 95%!!!  Oooohhhhh nnoooooo.

Its not that bad or even that different.

No kidding.

Much as I play a fair amount of coop, it's ridiculously easy and could stand to have the bots be more of a challenge.

 

 

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Yeah, any team that loses to bots, even the new-improved bots, is basically bot-level themselves.  

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The new AI sucks but they are no harder to beat then they were before. Just going to take some time adjusting from aggressive bots to pussified bots. They just kite is all, just like human players and you defeat them just like you do humans, spam HE. Any BB player still trying to use AP is just going to be disappointed, just burn them to death and don't worry about playing your ship correctly. 

For those of you saying this is more a challenge, ehh it isn't. Just drags the games out unnecessarily. It delays the inevitable is all. Just like in a PvP match where everyone is complaining because the last ship on the enemy team is running away into a corner without any hope of winning. Same sort of frustration is all. 

What made PvE fun and profitable was the quick games. The aggressive nature of the bots made for a fun match that was over quickly. You could complete 3 or 4 games in the time it takes your standard PvP match. Dragging the match out is just pointless. Wargaming seems to be good at "pointless". 

Edited by Taylor3006
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1 hour ago, Irish_Wolfhound11 said:

Randoms used to be where you'd go to get your face punched in after learning the ropes in Co-op.  Now you don't want to play either, as a new or relatively low to mid skilled player.  Getting smashed in 90% of your games is no way to entice new players to come aboard, nor does it keep the middle of the pack players interested.

Have you tried the Scenarios? Good credits or XP or Captains points or free XP or the grinding of some ships and the daily missions. Much better payouts than Co op or Randoms. Don't throw the baby out, with the bath water.

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These new bot do give you a run for your money.  We were almost out capped in a battle today.  And that was by bots that left caps and returned.  Along with some guarding of caps.  One thing that is missing is the inactivity.  If a bot had no spotted targets in range or shooting them, they tended to stop.  These new bots seek out objectives.  One player summed it up in chat, "Guess I can't sit and farm in the back anymore and expect to win."

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Just now, Sovereigndawg said:

Have you tried the Scenarios? Good credits or XP or Captains points or free XP or the grinding of some ships and the daily missions. Much better payouts than Co op or Randoms. Don't throw the baby out, with the bath water.

I am restocking my Elite XP and credits with the current scenario.  My Cleveland or Chappy brings in over 400k and 20k+ in Elite XP with a few flags.  Knocks the Anniversary and Daily Missions out pretty quickly.  Unfortunately, the Supply Lines event is Random only.

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while the AI change is surely flawed... saying the bots faceroll the players best not be true because if so those players are in a struggle

 

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I seem to recall posts like this about the RDF skill... and derpwater torps... and on and on...... :cap_popcorn:

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I've noticed the green bots appear smarter as well.  For months they were just charging in to ram other ships, torpedo each other, or let the enemy torp them.  Now they'll smoke up, disengage.  Actually had multiple bots surviving and killing things.

 

Yes the red ones got smarter but at least the ones on your side have similarly changed up the tactics a bit.

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18 minutes ago, ExploratorOne said:

These new bot do give you a run for your money.  We were almost out capped in a battle today.  And that was by bots that left caps and returned.  Along with some guarding of caps.  One thing that is missing is the inactivity.  If a bot had no spotted targets in range or shooting them, they tended to stop.  These new bots seek out objectives.  One player summed it up in chat, "Guess I can't sit and farm in the back anymore and expect to win."

That is because you abandoned the cap. The new bots will not fight for a cap like they used to, once they start taking fire they run. You have to run them out of the cap, get the cap, then push them away or destroy them. They will return to the cap if you are out of position is all. I literally chased a DD out of our base with bombers when they were close to winning by capping our base. The new AI is worse than the aggressive AI in all respects and it drags the games out. The one thing I like about the whole mess is the bots using smoke, I like that. They are easy to kill with torps just like humans hiding in smoke. But honestly watching a full health bot Tirpitz try and kite a half dead human light cruiser is pretty sad. It is an example of lazy programming by people who just don't seem to care. 

BTW that same match where I chased a red DD out of our base, I had gone forward in my carrier sticking with a Tirpitz. We were close to the enemy base and there was a red New Mexico in their base and a red Tirpitz bearing down on us. They managed to sink our BB and got close enough to me where my secondaries were going off and I thought I was dead.. My Lexington made BOTH battleships run away from secondary fire as they turned to kite me which gave me time to put out fires and launch attack planes. I destroyed them. Two battleships RAN from the secondary fire of my Lexington..... They are truly pitiful bots. 

Yes Optio, the new friendly bots manage to do well against the reds. I have had several games as the only human, playing a carrier, and if you help keep the reds spotted and the attack planes off your team, they destroy them easily. 

Edited by Taylor3006
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No, coop is not unplayable, the bots have just gone from bow-tanking constantly to kiting constantly. All this has done is make coop take longer, which would seem to be another of WGs ham handed ways of forcing people to play the random battles that so many people have come to despise and abandoned. Rather than fix the problems with randoms, the command economy staff decided once again that they can force people to play what they want, how they want. American car companies thought this way, it worked ever so well for them. Well, until they went broke.

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18 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

That is because you abandoned the cap. The new bots will not fight for a cap like they used to, once they start taking fire they run. You have to run them out of the cap, get the cap, then push them away or destroy them. They will return to the cap if you are out of position is all. I literally chased a DD out of our base with bombers when they were close to winning by capping our base. The new AI is worse than the aggressive AI in all respects and it drags the games out. The one thing I like about the whole mess is the bots using smoke, I like that. They are easy to kill with torps just like humans hiding in smoke. But honestly watching a full health bot Tirpitz try and kite a half dead human light cruiser is pretty sad. It is an example of lazy programming by people who just don't seem to care. 

BTW that same match where I chased a red DD out of our base, I had gone forward in my carrier sticking with a Tirpitz. We were close to the enemy base and there was a red New Mexico in their base and a red Tirpitz bearing down on us. They managed to sink our BB and got close enough to me where my secondaries were going off and I thought I was dead.. My Lexington made BOTH battleships run away from secondary fire as they turned to kite me which gave me time to put out fires and launch attack planes. I destroyed them. Two battleships RAN from the secondary fire of my Lexington..... They are truly pitiful bots. 

Yes Optio, the new friendly bots manage to do well against the reds. I have had several games as the only human, playing a carrier, and if you help keep the reds spotted and the attack planes off your team, they destroy them easily. 

In my experience, their previous behavior was charging into and through a cap.  If left alone, they tended to drive right on out of it.  Actually, in my battles the bots left the cap because I chased them out.  I finished the cap and was moving to the next one when the indicator started turning red.  It was just as you said and I had to evict more than one more than once.  And, they escaped around islands or by kiting away with weaving included.  Pretty good target practice for a DD drive or any cap contester.

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The bots are better than you?  You can't adapt to counter the bot's change in tactics?

Here kitty kitty kitty.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Dadrox said:

Here kitty kitty kitty.

That is harsh, very harsh. But i liked it.

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9 minutes ago, ExploratorOne said:

In my experience, their previous behavior was charging into and through a cap.  If left alone, they tended to drive right on out of it.  Actually, in my battles the bots left the cap because I chased them out.  I finished the cap and was moving to the next one when the indicator started turning red.  It was just as you said and I had to evict more than one more than once.  And, they escaped around islands or by kiting away with weaving included.  Pretty good target practice for a DD drive or any cap contester.

They would charge thru caps to chase ships, usually a DD or cruiser but if there was not a priority target close, they would cap. Games used to be over so quickly that bot capping behavior wasn't always apparent but have tons of matches in co-op and have seen it often enough. Late game both red and green bots become capping fools unless they are after a surviving destroyer... They used to really hate DDs. 

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1 hour ago, warheart1992 said:

The only issue is that co op lasts longer, for the same small rewards.

Before the changes playing this mode was a fraction of the time of a Random Battle for a fraction of the earnings.

Now that the battles have been lengthened and approach the duration of Random Battles occasionally they still give a fraction of the earnings.

When the smart bots show up the experience is a bit better because you can and have to play the objectives but still not up to random match level for similar match times.

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I can say that that CV AI seems to have traded moving his ship with better airstrikes.  In a game with Carriers, make sure your CV is sending out fighters.

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Also communication might become a bit more important now in CoOp.  Not that people don't talk in CoOp, many do, but it'll involve more coordination than before in taking them out (oh sailing right in with a Mass....good times :Smile_Default:)

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I'm a noob (tiers 1 & 2 and just got my one tier 3, and less than 300 games) and I can tell you that I WILL NOT play ANY more if the co-op bots remain the same.  I'm NOT interested in getting to tier10 and simply play for the fun of it.  Played 4 games today and died in ALL 4 and a winrate of 25%.  THIS is GARBAGE!!!  At 55 years old, I have more fun things I can do than waste time with WoWs.  I guess it's back to ARTY in WoT. (not that WoT is all that fun)

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