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AND THEY'RE BACK.

Just as quickly as WG fixed their biggest mistake , they decided to unfurl their giant middle shaped finger flag to co-op players.
These new bots are GARBAGE.  Yeah, they play more like humans, but if I wanted to play against humans I WOULD PLAY AGAINST HUMANS.
If anyone else despises This change sound off below with your own comments and critiques.

griefs-
Bots are cowards, they panic and sail around in circles once hit.
games take way longer , more time for the same low reward
battleships still deadly accurate.
I'm old and I'm getting older every day. This wans't so bad because I had my co-op play so now I don't so much. SO I"M BLAMING YOU WG.
Why the Hell did a buy and American Dasha just to have her speak in Russian.I'd say worst mail order bride ever but my actual one steals from me.

things you could have done to make it more interesting.
1. unlock co-op to 12v12
2. unlock 2 CV (rare but possible)
3. better balancing.  never more bb's then cA's  never more dd's then either.
4. bring back matlock.

!!!!RRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by CalamitousIntent
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9 minutes ago, CalamitousIntent said:

4. bring back matlock.

ROFL

Bless you

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For years people have complained about Bot's, they fix it and Surprise people complain about bot's!:Smile_facepalm:

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2 minutes ago, Raven114 said:

For years people have complained about Bot's, they fix it and Surprise people complain about bot's!:Smile_facepalm:

I don't think any of us asked for co-op bots to run away more.

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No issue with bots been smarter, but don't want bots have their cheats. Allowing 12v12 is a good idea, also please at high tiers, at least make people run premium time and premier camo can make a little bit of profit when the MM isn't that good. Kind of think they should remove bot CVs since the bot CV on human side are not that useful and tend to lose the air fight.

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It really sucks when all your team mates are  bots and both teams turn and run. 

If they want coop to play like random then it should pay like random.

 

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Bots are as stupid as ever, just they evade more and don't push into smoke as hard as before.

The only thing that should be changed is their cheating (knowing where DDs are even if unseen, knowing where your torps are coming from even if unseen, super-accurate first shots that target your torp launcher the moment your are about to use them). The cheating has to go. The rest is fine.

If your team is losing to bots, then your team sucks. No reason to lose to bots at any tier, other than when the green team is comprised of mostly bots and they die early.

Edited by alexf24
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18 minutes ago, Crucis said:

What would be more interesting is people who know the difference between then and than.  Or who can write a complete sentence that doesn't require a translator.

As for the bot changes, I prefer them.  The old bots were completely and boringly predictable.

if your contribution to the world is confined to spellcheck, THEN count yourself more useless THAN a tip calculator.
Strange though, everyone else seems to understand what I'm saying just fine to agree and disagree. maybe you just suck at reading comprehension.

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I'm truely sorry about your recent co-op experience, I guess that is one of the unintended consequences of WG's recent AI change.

Their intent definetly is not sinister, they view co-op mostly as a stepping stone for players to prepare for the unforgiving meatgrinder that is Random, Ranked, even clan wars. They did seem to forget their more casual and light-hearted population that just want to see pixel ships to go boom.

I play almost entirely pvp, but I wish opinions like this can be heard and being discussed, instead of being blindly rejected. 

World of warships as a game should and will encourage players to "git gud", but we should also remember that a game should be "fun" for its player base. And in this case I agree WG could've been a little more empathetic and considerate.

Edited by The_first_harbinger
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12 minutes ago, alexf24 said:

The cheating has to go. The rest is fine.

That's pretty much it.  but even that I can live with, I really have no complaints lol bots are bots, I can still kick butt and have fun.

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11 minutes ago, CalamitousIntent said:

if your contribution to the world is confined to spellcheck, THEN count yourself more useless THAN a tip calculator.
Strange though, everyone else seems to understand what I'm saying just fine to agree and disagree. maybe you just suck at reading comprehension.

I read English just fine.  The sentence I highlighted was indecipherable.

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Man I love everything about this post. +1 from me man, I'm with ya.

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1 minute ago, Raven114 said:

For years people have complained about Bot's, they fix it and Surprise people complain about bot's!:Smile_facepalm:

  Because they didn't fix the most problematic irritating aspects- they made changes few asked for instead.  You know, par for the course.

 For example:

 Nobody asked for cowardly bots that run, hide and refuse to engage or brawl- but that's what we got.

what we DID ask for- repeatedly- was an adjustment to the brainless hyperfocus on single ships,  and some of the just plain dumb things they did.  (like turning around and mass charging the middle of 2 Brothers because a player loitered by the other end of the channel)

  All that was really required to fix many of the quality of play problems was to simply adjust the bots' prioritizing of targets from the "weakest" ship to the greatest threat.   A torpedo armed ship that's right in your face is CLEARLY a priority threat vs a running away low health ship 20km away that's essentially out of the fight.  Not to mention a DD that's 2 caps over.  Yet the bots would completely ignore the real threat, in favor of the "squirrel".   Thus, stupidity like the entire bot team chasing a single ship to the far corner of the map- just because it's a DD or a low health whatever wouldn't happen nearly as often.

 

 Co-op is now much more like Random,  with the slow paced, campy, snipy style of game where everyone rides the edge of their detection, and runs as soon as they're fired on.  which is silly, because players wanting that experience can just PLAY in Random, and earn a lot more to boot.   Players played Co-op for the fast paced, action packed, brawlier style that was a result of the bots being aggressive, and NOT camping, hiding, or running away.   That last is what was "fixed", which is why so many of us are very unhappy- it's what we LIKED about the game.

 

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22 minutes ago, alexf24 said:

Bots are as stupid as ever, just they evade more and don't push into smoke as hard as before.

The only thing that should be changed is their cheating (knowing where DDs are even if unseen, knowing where your torps are coming from even if unseen, super-accurate first shots that target your torp launcher the moment your are about to use them). The cheating has to go. The rest is fine.

Bots have to cheat. The alternative is somebody coding an amazing AI that can simulate the knowledge and intuition of an actual player. 

If you did so, you might as well play PvP against a team of unis. Of course, you could add yet another layer of complexity, and allow the bots to be "wrong" at random times.

At least now, you know that the bots know where you are, and how they will act. Make the AI more complex, and now you don't know if they've anticipated your location, and therefore don't know what they're going to do.

It's easy to make an AI do something completely random, or 100% perfect. Getting an AI to do a "merely decent" job is extremely difficult.

Yes, PvE makes up a decent chunk of the playerbase. Just not enough to justify making an AI play like a human, especially when there's already a game mode that gives you human opponents.

 

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Huh, so far my only real complaint is that bot CV's just SIT there, even after coming under fire.  At the very least they should start moving when they take fire.  Other than that, I'm finding them much easier to deal with now than before.  Go figure. :Smile_hiding:

 

I'd love to have a 12v12 with a 2 CV possibility type thing in Co-Op.  That would rock. :Smile_playing:

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31 minutes ago, Volron said:

I'd love to have a 12v12 with a 2 CV possibility type thing in Co-Op.  That would rock. :Smile_playing:

I have to admit, I prefer the smaller teams in co-op, but having 12v12 once in awhile wouldn't be too bad, just not constantly. I wish they'd let random battles have smaller teams on a regular basis, might convince me to go back to those at some point. I do have to say though, I really hate when the bots just run from you, if I wanted to have to chase ships down just to fight them, I'd be playing randoms right now. I switched from randoms to co-op ages ago because I hated how static things had gotten and the brawl-fest that is co-op was exactly what I was looking for. I've gotten quite good at brawling, even in ships that aren't really meant for it. It's also nice to be ale to play in a mode where concealment isn't the end-all be-all of builds, it's plain stupid that concealment is the only build viable for randoms or so say many prominent voices and that causes it to snowball until everyone is running concealment builds. I'm getting a bit side tracked, but it is unhealthy for the game and co-op and scenarios are the haven for many of us more aggressive players that live to brawl, are satisfied so long as we gave at least as good as we got, and don't give a darn about a few scratches on our paintwork. 

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55 minutes ago, Fletcher7_1944 said:

  Because they didn't fix the most problematic irritating aspects- they made changes few asked for instead.  You know, par for the course.

 For example:

 Nobody asked for cowardly bots that run, hide and refuse to engage or brawl- but that's what we got.

what we DID ask for- repeatedly- was an adjustment to the brainless hyperfocus on single ships,  and some of the just plain dumb things they did.  (like turning around and mass charging the middle of 2 Brothers because a player loitered by the other end of the channel)

  All that was really required to fix many of the quality of play problems was to simply adjust the bots' prioritizing of targets from the "weakest" ship to the greatest threat.   A torpedo armed ship that's right in your face is CLEARLY a priority threat vs a running away low health ship 20km away that's essentially out of the fight.  Not to mention a DD that's 2 caps over.  Yet the bots would completely ignore the real threat, in favor of the "squirrel".   Thus, stupidity like the entire bot team chasing a single ship to the far corner of the map- just because it's a DD or a low health whatever wouldn't happen nearly as often.

 

 Co-op is now much more like Random,  with the slow paced, campy, snipy style of game where everyone rides the edge of their detection, and runs as soon as they're fired on.  which is silly, because players wanting that experience can just PLAY in Random, and earn a lot more to boot.   Players played Co-op for the fast paced, action packed, brawlier style that was a result of the bots being aggressive, and NOT camping, hiding, or running away.   That last is what was "fixed", which is why so many of us are very unhappy- it's what we LIKED about the game.

 

I agree 100%. You took the words right out of my mouth. :Smile_veryhappy:

Only good thing I see about this AI change is the bot DD's actually using their smoke, instead of abandoning it after activating it. Otherwise, what the change did is to unnecessarily drag out the Coop matches, which nobody asked for. :Smile_sceptic:

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I've lost more in coop in the last few days than in the three months before that - and not only because of the green bots.  But that said, I generally appreciate the better AI, with an exception or two.  I can do without bots kiting to J10 when the match is already well and truly lost for the red team (IF point differential >= 200 AND ship differential >= 3 THEN ExecuteProcedureBanzaiCharge...someone turn that into actual code and we're good to go); one gets enough of that elsewhere.  For that matter, when the same conditions apply, I wouldn't mind any cyclones in process immediately clearing up - no one needs an extra 5 minutes chasing down a CV when the match is essentially over.

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@CalamitousIntent The AI Bots have been improved at the request of many in the community who prefer co op play and those who use it as a break! 

I hereby request of WG and the WoWs Community that Something, Anything be done to improve JERKS such as you! 

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

I read English just fine.  The sentence I highlighted was indecipherable.

Why the Hell did a buy and American Dasha just to have her speak in Russian.

lol Seriously,? You can't read that?

GTFOH  You can probably decipher that though, right?

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The behavior changes are fine, but the "cheats" have become ridiculous and grossly unfair.

To wit: red AI DD firing guns UNDETECTED with dead aim  from smoke at less than1.5 km at my wildly zigzagging DD.

Total bullscat.

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3 hours ago, CalamitousIntent said:

Just as quickly as WG fixed their biggest mistake , they decided to unfurl their giant middle shaped finger flag to co-op players.
These new bots are GARBAGE.  Yeah, they play more like humans, but if I wanted to play against humans I WOULD PLAY AGAINST HUMANS.
If anyone else despises This change sound off below with your own comments and critiques.

griefs-
Bots are cowards, they panic and sail around in circles once hit.
games take way longer , more time for the same low reward
battleships still deadly accurate.
I'm old and I'm getting older every day. This wans't so bad because I had my co-op play so now I don't so much. SO I"M BLAMING YOU WG.
Why the Hell did a buy and American Dasha just to have her speak in Russian.I'd say worst mail order bride ever but my actual one steals from me.

things you could have done to make it more interesting.
1. unlock co-op to 12v12
2. unlock 2 CV (rare but possible)
3. better balancing.  never more bb's then cA's  never more dd's then either.
4. bring back matlock.

While I do find the new BoT AI more of challenge, as others have said  I do not think Wargaming is out to get anyone. And as PvE player I am happy with the base change of the AI, I do wish the Red BoTs would miss more, and set less fires, but I can deal with it.

Coward/Cowards - This is a word thrown around a lot in this game, I have been called a coward for withdrawing with my Light Cruisers until the Red BoTs lose lock on my ship, then I turn around and attack again. To me a sunken allied ship means it can no longer support the rest of the team.

12vs12: My only issue with is server population, I play the most at 2AM EST. So this is when there can be less players online, I have been in matches where I am the only human with the current match size, at 12vs12 this type of situation may become harder than needed for a casual players.

Two CVs: While I have no problem with this, there is a large group of players who do not want no CVs in Co-Op. So Two per side would cause S-Storm!

American Dasha --- I hope the OP, has watched her videos and realized that is not her voice in the video, and if you had realized that, why in the name of the Seven Seas would you expect her to speak english as a Captain?

I happy with the in-roads the PvE players have gain in many of the updates, but we cannot expect Wargaming NOT to make it harder if they are giving us more. And also all gaming adjustments take time.

2 hours ago, The_first_harbinger said:

I'm truely sorry about your recent co-op experience, I guess that is one of the unintended consequences of WG's recent AI change.

Their intent definetly is not sinister, they view co-op mostly as a stepping stone for players to prepare for the unforgiving meatgrinder that is Random, Ranked, even clan wars. They did seem to forget their more casual and light-hearted population that just want to see pixel ships to go boom.

I play almost entirely pvp, but I wish opinions like this can be heard and being discussed, instead of being blindly rejected. 

World of warships as a game should and will encourage players to "git gud", but we should also remember that a game should be "fun" for its player base. And in this case I agree WG could've been a little more empathetic and considerate.

+1 BTW, The_first_harbinger a well thought post.  

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I have played few extra rounds this morning, and noticed the bots have a terrible tendency to flee. I mean, if the bots run away, we are likely to win, but it takes too long to chase and hunt down the bots. The game tends to waste extra 3-4 minutes just for chasing and hunting down those bots. I have no idea why the programmers from WG thoughts people just simply gonna flee after been shoot at. I don't think players in random just gonna flee without considering push. Right now in CO-OP mod, the bots are not likely to push, they tend to have an extremely small push at the start of the game, and spending the rest of the game simply running away, the entire game became a shooting practice, and it is not fun at all.

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Remember, kids....the enemy bots are smarter now.  

 

Friendly bots, should you be unfortunate enough to have them on your team (like I did 4 times in the test server yesterday) are just as dumb as the originals.

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1 hour ago, Volron said:

Huh, so far my only real complaint is that bot CV's just SIT there, even after coming under fire.  At the very least they should start moving when they take fire.  Other than that, I'm finding them much easier to deal with now than before.  Go figure. :Smile_hiding:

 

I'd love to have a 12v12 with a 2 CV possibility type thing in Co-Op.  That would rock. :Smile_playing:

A small disagreement here. Yes they do sit when they run out of planes.

But on the average, esp at lower tiers, bot CVs are better than many CV players I've seen.

They scout the center of the map, often and early. They do not play the merry-go round till all their planes are set in a package, while the DDs have to do the scouting, instead of easily knowing what's ahead. Sending one DB or one fighter ahead of the early DDs is a no brainer. Bots do it. Other players? Rarely. They haven't figured team play out yet. If I am in coop and there is a CV, I'd rather be a green bot CV. Unfortunate, but reality.

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