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Sepia

Why this game just isnt as fun as it should be...

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Obviously these are opinions, but this is why I believe this game isnt as fun as it should be.

 

--Destroyer

1. Move in and attempt to cap, spot the enemy DD and he spots me, everyone shoots at me and everyone shoots at enemy DD, run like a [edited] or smoke, if smoked radar.

2. Get near 10km to torp, radar'd, run like a [edited], torps miss due to hydro.

3. Get as close as possible to torp, radar'd by a CA hiding behind an island, dead...

4. Sail near max torp range and hide like a [edited] all match.

5. Get within gun range, smoke and pew pew until radar'd.

6. Hide behind islands refusing to spot and pew pew.

7. Screen for team firing torps at approaching enemies, run when radar'd.

8. Let enemy BB take incoming fire, pew pew until fired at, run like a [edited].

 

--Light Cruiser

1. Hide behind island and pew pew, never leave island waifu unless divorcing island waifu to marry another island waifu. 

2. Sail into DD smoke and radar enemy DD, get radar'd, die.

3. Keep ally BB in sight, fire upon things firing at him near your max range, run like a [edited] if fired at.

 

--Heavy Cruiser

1. Fire from behind islands when possible, fire at max range when no islands available. Fire HE from max range, kite if fired at.

2. Attempt to ambush light cruisers with AP broadsides, go bow on if fired at. Stay bow on or die.

 

--Battleship

1. Sail at max range and snipe. Shoot AP at everything unless Brit, if Brit shoot HE.

2. Sneak in close using islands in an attempt to brawl. Click crapso your 2ndaries actually fire. 2ndaries still not firing due to AI retardation, take 400 HE shells lobbed at you from targets you cant engage due to (island,smoke)

 

This is why I am starting to find this game less fun as time goes on. The rock, paper, scissors strategy of the game seems to be thrown out of whack. Personally I would like ships broken into separate categories as to what they are supposed to do.

1. Tank

2. DPS

3. Scout

4. Counter Scout

5. Counter Air

I am not saying these should be hard archetypes. A ship should do a mix of multiple of these. If a ship is the best at one it should suffer in others. Some BB should be about absorbing damage, some about dealing damage, some about anti-air, basically any class ship can be anything with limitations. A heavy cruiser shouldnt tank as well as a BB focused tank. But a heavy cruiser might tank better than a damage focused BB. We need more trade offs. We need more options. Each Tank focused BB can tank in different ways. Maybe one Tank focused BB is heal focused like the Mass. Maybe another BB is damage control focused. Maybe another is speed and maneuverability focused.  If a BB is near citadel immune it should suffer for that advantage. The Mass is an excellent start toward this idea. The Mass has lower main gun range than some cruisers which is a good trade for decent 2ndaries. A close range tanky ship shouldnt have huge gun range, that defeats its purpose. 

Tanky ships should last a lot longer in battle than the current meta. HE spam, fires, and flooding are a bit ridiculous.  The problem is that you cant have a tanky ship 1 shotting people left and right, like the current meta. If you die slow you should kill slow, unless someone  makes a critical error. A DD ramming a tanky ship, yea, insta death. I am tired of seeing a full broadside heavy cruiser being 1 shot by a ship with over 100k health. I am also tired of seeing a BB geting 1 flood and basically is game over. Flood and HE should be consistent damage over time with added debuffs. Floods should ruin ship maneuverability while fires should debuff the guns where the fire is or if its the bridge, hmm, something else. Modules damage should also be more interesting, maybe two stage, reduced speed, slower rudder shift, etc, before they break entirely. Damage control should not instantly remove debuffs, fires, flooding. Damage control should reduce the duration of these things. Damage control should  last longer but at reduced benefit. Repair party should also last longer but be slower. 

Games are just to fast and you are punished to hard for making mistakes. Taking a risk might give you and your team a benefit but it just might get you instantly killed. This is why people are prone to taking as few risks as possible. What do you guys think?

 

 

 

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It sounds like you just want a different game.

I disagree with your synopses, sure some are true, but take Battleships for instance: there is also picking fights at the right time, checking your position, providing presence so your cruisers can move more freely, and anchoring flanks.

Or DDs and using tactics that help provide safety such as baiting radar near its max range and then tipping out or area denial with torpedos.

And tanky ships do last longer in battle than a ship that’s less tanky (assuming everything else is the same, such as concealment), unless you make mistakes like sailing broadside.

It really seems like you’re looking for a more standard-style MOBA rather than an arcade naval battle game.

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9 minutes ago, SmokeHenge said:

It sounds like you just want a different game.

I disagree with your synopses, sure some are true, but take Battleships for instance: there is also picking fights at the right time, checking your position, providing presence so your cruisers can move more freely, and anchoring flanks.

Or DDs and using tactics that help provide safety such as baiting radar near its max range and then tipping out or area denial with torpedos.

And tanky ships do last longer in battle than a ship that’s less tanky (assuming everything else is the same, such as concealment), unless you make mistakes like sailing broadside.

It really seems like you’re looking for a more standard-style MOBA rather than an arcade naval battle game.

Nope, im not looking for a moba. I am looking for a naval battle game. you can have a naval battle game with the ideas that I listed. My ideas dont turn ships into something else. Some of the ships even use ideas that I like. I did mention the Mass and how it sacrifices to be a brawler. So  are you saying that the Mass doesnt belong in the game?

Edited by Sepia

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14 minutes ago, Sepia said:

 

Nope, im not looking for a moba. I am looking for a naval battle game. you can have a naval battle game with the ideas that I listed. My ideas dont turn ships into something else. Some of the ships even use ideas that I like. I did mention the Mass and how it sacrifices to be a brawler. So  are you saying that the Mass doesnt belong in the game?

Huh? No, but you are talking about fundamentally changing ship attributes and their gameplay from what is already there.

You are bringing up items such as time-to-kill, expanded tactic roles between different ships, and incremental debuffs.  These are all points more intrinsic to different games such as MOBAs and RPGs, at least to the degree you are specifying.

It’s tough that there currently is no naval battle game that fits your bill, but it certainly looks like you open Warships and think “Man, I wish this was a different game.” Like going to a Chik-Fil-A and saying “You know, they should really toss a few hamburgers into their menu, cause that’s what i want.”

Minor differences between ships are already present: Alabama and torpedo belt, Mass and secondaries, Asashio with DWTs, Belfast with HE.  But your idea was to take the minor differences and exaggerate them.

Anyhow, best of luck, time for my sleep.

Edited by SmokeHenge
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I have been here since Beta testing and to me there is no less fun now than then. It appears to me that you are looking for a completely different game as am I and have been since my Atari 800 wargaming days! A real time Naval Combat Simulator battling on real world maps ie mostly empty ocean running aerial surface and sub surface search patterns taking hours and days gallons of coffee sleep depravation house full of pals to take shifts at the keyboard hygiene scoffing just to find the 1st enemy scout and then more of the same before CV strikes and/or surface/sub surface engagements of massive ie 20/30/40 + ship fleets commence.

Let me know if and when you find that game! I will be more than happy to be the first to sign up!   

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Stop with this different game crap. Asking for change is ok.  Trying to have a discussion. Imagine if someone said. CV suck and I want them changed. Then someone replied, but its the way they are, you must want a different game...

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12 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

I have been here since Beta testing and to me there is no less fun now than then. It appears to me that you are looking for a completely different game as am I and have been since my Atari 800 wargaming days! A real time Naval Combat Simulator battling on real world maps ie mostly empty ocean running aerial surface and sub surface search patterns taking hours and days gallons of coffee sleep depravation house full of pals to take shifts at the keyboard hygiene scoffing just to find the 1st enemy scout and then more of the same before CV strikes and/or surface/sub surface engagements of massive ie 20/30/40 + ship fleets commence.

Let me know if and when you find that game! I will be more than happy to be the first to sign up!   

Ever checked out Janes' Fleet Command (with the NWS update mod)? It's on Steam.

It is a rather old but still amazing combat sim set in the 1970's-1980's. Can be played at any scale via scenario editor- single ship, battle group, or multiple fleets over wide theater.  Very realistic. Has CV air, sandcrab air, subs, everything. Lots of countries, lots of boats.

I personally like the NTDS console battle UI.

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@No_Sky_Cancer I do have a Steam account with $100s games on it but almost 3 years ago my very nice Dell LT died and I was as I am now unable to replace it! So I had to grovel to family members and even though I provided compu specs I was gifted a nice but sub par HP LT. It handles WoT and WoWs fine but when I try to go to Steam all I get is a black rectangle and nothing else that wont close  without rebooting. I am however familiar with that game and others. The closest I ever had was the Great Naval Battles North Atlantic and Guadalcanal single player games and Harpoon. On Steam I had 3 Silent Hunter games that are great but my preference were the Nascar and Formula 1 racing games.  

@Skpstr Windows 10 latest version! But there is either some incompatible internal component in this HP or this Nursing Home Residents WiFi doesn't allow it through. Now that I think of it when I first got this LT I had my own Comcast High Speed Wifi and Steam did the same thing nothing but a black rectangle. In fact if I respond to a wish list email I get the same thing.

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To be blunt... 

This game is immensely enjoyed by folks who sit in port and look with wonder at the ships.

And we occasionally take them out and blow <stuff> up with them for kicks.

Then we are off to go to our job, refurbish the bathroom, clean out the garage, go on a date, replace the rear shocks on the car...   you know...  'normal' stuff.

We are brutalized by people who see this as a way to raise their self-esteem when the rest of their life is a failure.  Their fixation to this non-reality is sad.

Get citadelled???   Not as bad as getting a splinter in the palm of your hand where you need to cut into it with a razor to tweezer it out.

....

Take a step back and re-evaluate why you came to WOWS in the first place.  If you find you have over-indulged..  go back and revisit your other hobbies.

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4 hours ago, Sepia said:

Stop with this different game crap. Asking for change is ok.  Trying to have a discussion. Imagine if someone said. CV suck and I want them changed. Then someone replied, but its the way they are, you must want a different game...

Ok, take it this way: would you go to a Lexus dealer, look at one of the cars and say “this is ok, but can you get me one with four-wheel-drive, a roll cage, a power winch, and a full-size bed?”

No, if you want a truck, you go visit a car dealer that has trucks.

In such an example, I would respond “It looks like you want a different vehicle.” And then you tell me to screw off with this different vehicle crap.

You are not asking for a change or a tweak, you are asking for a completely different kind of game. For your CV example, WG is changing them to be more in line with the rest of the game.

I get it, this game has an aspect of what you want and there’s nothing else out there closer to what you want.  But what you looks to be NOT WoWS.  Our responses, although not what you want, are accurate.

Edited by SmokeHenge
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Why did I think I would actually get a discussion out of this. Never mind have a nice day...

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For me, the one thing you omitted are roles.  The radar meta is evolving and changing roles that were the basis of all tactical efforts.  Those cultures and societies all envisioned and had expectations that the ships were designed around and the roles were the extension of those expectations in action.....  Roles defined the era. 

The meta is eroding those expectations and roles are fragmenting into individual choices as players "adapt" to a disruptive technology....  I joined because of the roles and expectations from that era......  If I wanted advanced, digital non-LOS technologies, I'd would simply play Harpoon with all of my ex and retired Navy ship CPT's (real ship and sub captains).....  We still play once a month and have been since we all retired....

This game is headed away from it's value proposition.....  It's following WoTs's into the young adult Arcade FPS arena market.......and, that market requires fast, on-going game changes every update cycle or the kiddies leave.  OF course, we all left WoTs years ago and now, we are faced with those choices yet again; and, that's sooner than later me thinks....

The "find another game" is more true than they realize.......  History repeats itself, yes?

Edited by Asym_KS
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33 minutes ago, Sepia said:

Why did I think I would actually get a discussion out of this. Never mind have a nice day...

Discussion was there, if ignored.  You as well and hope you find the game you’re looking for.  Me? I like this one the way it is and the way it is being developed just fine.

Also, I noticed I got a downvote for my troubles of explanation yet I only see a thumbs-up icon on other people’s posts.  How to downvote?

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5 hours ago, Sepia said:

 

Nope, im not looking for a moba. I am looking for a naval battle game. you can have a naval battle game with the ideas that I listed. My ideas dont turn ships into something else. Some of the ships even use ideas that I like. I did mention the Mass and how it sacrifices to be a brawler. So  are you saying that the Mass doesnt belong in the game?

One problem is with your tank archetype. A ship set up to tank fire for teammates would be only for good players or Co-op.

Why? Because of how tanks work. The idea is to make enemies prioritise firing at you. You do that by fulfilling the necessary conditions to make that happen.

Vs. the AI, that's easy, as the conditions are the same for every enemy, in every game.

However, it's much harder against real people, because the conditions vary from player to player. And even if you fought the same player, the conditions can be different depending on what ship he plays, or even his mood from game to game. The conditions also vary depending on which of your teammates the enemy has the option to fire at.

Generally, players will fire at the biggest threat. That means you have to be more threatening than any of your nearby teammates, including that friendly Worcester that's spamming the crap out the enemy. The better player you are, the more threatening you can be. 

Of course, threat isn't the whole story. Players may prioritise based on prejudice against certain ships, certain players/clans, or may simply have tunnel vision, and not even be aware that you're a threat.

5 hours ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

@No_Sky_Cancer I do have a Steam account with $100s games on it but almost 3 years ago my very nice Dell LT died and I was as I am now unable to replace it! So I had to grovel to family members and even though I provided compu specs I was gifted a nice but sub par HP LT. It handles WoT and WoWs fine but when I try to go to Steam all I get is a black rectangle and nothing else that wont close  without rebooting

That has to be something fixable. The requirements for Steam are less than those for WoWS, (and the requirements for many of the games on Steam are less than that) assuming you're running at least Windows 7.

 

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I agree that the current game modes are not FUN. The key word being fun. They could implement better mode that focus more in teamwork and not just random circles.

 

How about mixing scenario missions with randoms.. give players more than one objective.. have player and AI ships... the goal could be to stop the AI ships from capping a certain key point (base, island, etc) all the while having to fend off enemy players.  Another could be attack and defend a convoy...etc. 

 

This game could be much more engaging and FUN.  

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1 hour ago, Sepia said:

Why did I think I would actually get a discussion out of this. Never mind have a nice day...

Yep, I understand completely 

 

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1 hour ago, Sepia said:

Why did I think I would actually get a discussion out of this. Never mind have a nice day...

The problem is that  this forum is full of trolls and well-meaning but sometimes dumb(yes, myself included) people who have trouble deciphering just what is the main point of a topic. 

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Match making is a joke, it really is. 

I have had 20 games today and only once did I end up in a same tier game. 

All other games i was a low tier ship by 2 levels vs high tier ships. 

Oh look I was tier 8 and they were tier 10. 

The issue is they are not looking at the issue. 

They have brushed it to the side like there is no issue.  I am really sick of this game now. 

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12 minutes ago, Deus_Drone said:

Match making is a joke, it really is. 

I have had 20 games today and only once did I end up in a same tier game. 

All other games i was a low tier ship by 2 levels vs high tier ships. 

Oh look I was tier 8 and they were tier 10. 

The issue is they are not looking at the issue. 

They have brushed it to the side like there is no issue.  I am really sick of this game now. 

I played at least 8 or 9 battles yesterday, at least half of them were bottom tier, and a lot of the others I either screwed up, someone got lucky, or our team utterly failed to defeat their DDs and we were smashed by them. I won exactly 2 of them, neither fun for me.

 

1 as bottom Tier in my Scharnhorst against Tier IXs on The Atlantic(a close one, thank goodness, but one in which I majorly screwed up), and one as top(or middle, I don't remember) tier in my Fuso on Fault Line, our team played a little better and got all the good luck and RNG, and it was a stomp. I barely did anything(14,000 damage) because it was over so fast.  The enemy team lost by getting to 0 points.

It was mostly won by our DDs, in caps that they didn't bother to light up for me, because it was smoke v smoke and torps blind-fired into the enemy smoke screens won the day

Edited by legoboy0401

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Since we've been talking, I have played a few games all in Tier 8 9 10 ships. There is always tier 8 ships in with Tier 10. I am yet to see a game with the same tier. 

They need to fix this. 

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Just now, Deus_Drone said:

Since we've been talking, I have played a few games all in Tier 8 9 10 ships. There is always tier 8 ships in with Tier 10. I am yet to see a game with the same tier. 

They need to fix this. 

I am quite honestly only going to play a few games in Bismarck when I get her, fully-spec'd for secondaries, and with her 'The Last Conquest" camo on,(to taste the legend) and then shelve her, not bothering to grind any further down the line(I'm building a separate Survivability + Manual Secondaries build captain for FDG and Kurfurst), and only using my Bismarck for campaign missions.

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Just now, legoboy0401 said:

I am quite honestly only going to play a few games in Bismarck when I get her, fully-spec'd for secondaries, and with her 'The Last Conquest" camo on,(to taste the legend) and then shelve her, not bothering to grind any further down the line(I'm building a separate Survivability + Manual Secondaries build captain for FDG and Kurfurst), and only using my Bismarck for campaign missions.

Kurfurst is amazing as well as FDG however Im gonna hang up my hat on this game after tonight, the loss of the XP this week, the constant match making issues. 

I've had enough. 

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1 minute ago, Deus_Drone said:

Kurfurst is amazing as well as FDG however Im gonna hang up my hat on this game after tonight, the loss of the XP this week, the constant match making issues. 

I've had enough. 

You're leaving? I can't say I blame you, though.

Edited by legoboy0401

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1 minute ago, legoboy0401 said:

You're leaving? I can't say I blame you.

I have 61 ships, I won a ton of premium ships, I have 20,000,000 silver, 8 free port slots. 4,823 games played. 

I also have all the commemorative flags, the patches, I have Kreigmarine 3 which is top 3 XP earners in German ships over 50 games. 

Currently working towards the Kreigmarine 4 which is 100 games in the top 3. 

Match making is why I am leaving. 

 

I have 61 ships and I can't get a single one to fight in its correct tier. 

That is terrible game mechanics. I feel sorry for new players. 

Edited by Deus_Drone

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5 minutes ago, Deus_Drone said:

I have 61 ships, I won a ton of premium ships, I have 20,000,000 silver, 8 free port slots. 4,823 games played. 

I also have all the commemorative flags, the patches, I have Kreigmarine 3 which is top 3 XP earners in German ships over 50 games. 

Currently working towards the Kreigmarine 4 which is 100 games in the top 3. 

Match making is why I am leaving. 

 

I have 61 ships and I can't get a single one to fight in its correct tier. 

That is terrible game mechanics. I feel sorry for new players. 

I'm sorry. Well, I hope you find another game that you enjoy. Personally, I always try to have a back-up console game (that I love) for when a computer game(usually WoWS, but occasionally something else)gets on my nerves.

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