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The_Painted_Target

So where's this BB AP solution WG has been murmuring about for a couple weeks?

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Looking forward to the day I can be spotted as a DD and not get chunked for 10k because someone 15km away clicked on me.

Inb4 the solution makes things worse somehow.

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1 minute ago, The_Painted_Target said:

Looking forward to the day I can be spotted as a DD and not get chunked for 10k because someone 15km away clicked on me.

Inb4 the solution makes things worse somehow.

The solution they seemed to be mulling over was reducing DD's armor so BBs always overpen... the flipside of it was IIRC, you'd take more damage from DDs and 203mm HE shells.

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3 minutes ago, The_Painted_Target said:

Looking forward to the day I can be spotted as a DD and not get chunked for 10k because someone 15km away clicked on me.

Inb4 the solution makes things worse somehow.

Sure, if they nerf torpedo dmage across the board for « balance »

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1 hour ago, 212thAttackBattalion said:

The solution they seemed to be mulling over was reducing DD's armor so BBs always overpen... the flipside of it was IIRC, you'd take more damage from DDs and 203mm HE shells.

The problem was that 203mm cruiser AP started doing ridiculous amounts of damage. DDs already universally damage each other (not counting khaba) with HE, AP on angles and some flat broadsides (z52 / Gearing). Cruiser HE has always been good at dealing damage to DDs.

It's absolutely ridiculous that the class claimed to be the counter to BBs has the most to fear from them.

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1 hour ago, The_Painted_Target said:

Looking forward to the day I can be spotted as a DD and not get chunked for 10k because someone 15km away clicked on me.

Inb4 the solution makes things worse somehow.

If you are in a DD and get hit for 10k by a BB from 15km away I say that problem is on you.  A BB would be lucky to hit a decent DD player with 1 shell at 15km if it is dodging like it should when spotted, let alone get slapped for 10k worth.  And even if you did get that amazing shot on a DD for 10k from 15km how often does that actually happen? Once in 1,000 times?  Cause if you balance the game around things that happen that rarely you are going to have a #&*( show of a game.  

As a DD, BB are the things I fear the least.

Edited by JToney3449
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There is already a solution. Use WASD and speed hacks to actively dodge incoming rounds and never sail straight away form BBs as their AP will penetrate the length of your ship causing full AP dmg.

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33 minutes ago, JToney3449 said:

If you are in a DD and get hit for 10k by a BB from 15km away I say that problem is on you.  A BB would be lucky to hit a decent DD player with 1 shell at 15km if it is dodging like it should when spotted, let alone get slapped for 10k worth.  And even if you did get that amazing shot on a DD for 10k from 15km how often does that actually happen? Once in 1,000 times?  Cause if you balance the game around things that happen that rarely you are going to have a #&*( show of a game.  

As a DD, BB are the things I fear the least.

I hit DDs 15km away a lot, its not that hard, also most of the time a DD is being shot at by multiple ships, the DD is not going to ignore all the close range rapid incoming fire to look out for that BB shell that may or may not come in.

There have been many times that i have dodged 80% of the incoming fire then i get undetected then moments later a BB shell hits me from a BB far away which i was not even aware was even targeting me because up until then he had not shoot at me once when the main barraging was going on.

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19 minutes ago, Final8ty said:

I hit DDs 15km away a lot, its not that hard, also most of the time a DD is being shot at by multiple ships, the DD is not going to ignore all the close range rapid incoming fire to look out for that BB shell that may or may not come in.

There have been many times that i have dodged 80% of the incoming fire then i get undetected then moments later a BB shell hits me from a BB far away which i was not even aware was even targeting me because up until then he had not shoot at me once when the main barraging was going on.

Why are you so true and brave??

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Learn WASD hacks and stop expecting WG to play the game for you. A spotted DD should be dodging like mad and shouldn’t stop until they are well and truly no longer under fire. 

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4 hours ago, monpetitloup said:

Sure, if they nerf torpedo dmage across the board for « balance »

You want them to nerf the lowest performing ships for "balance"? Interesting .

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2 hours ago, Final8ty said:

I hit DDs 15km away a lot, its not that hard, also most of the time a DD is being shot at by multiple ships, the DD is not going to ignore all the close range rapid incoming fire to look out for that BB shell that may or may not come in.

There have been many times that i have dodged 80% of the incoming fire then i get undetected then moments later a BB shell hits me from a BB far away which i was not even aware was even targeting me because up until then he had not shoot at me once when the main barraging was going on.

I hit them at 15km away to, they are usually not dodging worth a damn when I do it.  That does not mean BB should be nerfed, it means those players should be more aware.  And why is it when I say dodge so often people go well im getting shot at by everything under the sun so that means the bb hitting me needs nerfed! No, it means if you are getting shot at by everything under the sun and getting hit you #%*)ed up!  And if an unknown bb fires at you that didnt fire at you right off the bat how is that even relevant? 

You getting shot at by multiple ships has nothing to do with BB AP, a BB that didnt shoot at you asap isnt relevant, the question is "is BB AP broken vs DD?" and I have to say no its not.  Full pen shots on DD with BB AP are not something that happens so often that it effects the over all balance of the ship classes.  Show me a BB that consistantly lands shells on a decent DD player at 15km range for 10k damage.  Ill go so far as to say consistant being 5 out of 10 volleys so we have a baseline.

Id really like to see WG post the numbers for BB AP vs DD so we could see the % of pen vs over pen, im willing to bet over pen would be 85% or above.  I wont even mention the flat out miss %.   

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27 minutes ago, JToney3449 said:

Id really like to see WG post the numbers for BB AP vs DD so we could see the % of pen vs over pen, im willing to bet over pen would be 85% or above.  I wont even mention the flat out miss %.   

You can actually test the pen vs over-pen thing yourself. Just pick a range and angle then spend a couple of hours in a training room lobbing shells and recording the results.

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1 hour ago, JToney3449 said:

Full pen shots on DD with BB AP are not something that happens so often that it effects the over all balance of the ship classes. 

Actually, WG outright said BB AP is overperforming against DDs and it is effecting the balance.  Also, WG is now looking at radar and they specifically mentioned focus fire as a problem with radar.  Problems of focus fire from radar, and overperforming BB AP, these two things combined show this isn't a git gud problem, its a balance problem.  At least that's how WG seems to see it.

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I think you have bigger issues to deal with if you're getting smacked by a Battleship in a speeding DD when they're 15km away from you....

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removing the double dip would go a long ways in fixing BB AP vs DDs.   I would like to see them fix that, then see how things are before they do massive armor changes.

 

im just amazed that bug has been in the game this long, impacting one of the biggest parts of the game.(aka shooting other ships)

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12 minutes ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

removing the double dip would go a long ways in fixing BB AP vs DDs.   I would like to see them fix that, then see how things are before they do massive armor changes.

 

im just amazed that bug has been in the game this long, impacting one of the biggest parts of the game.(aka shooting other ships)

It sounds like the armor nerf "fix" is off the table.  Thank goodness.  Well, I say that now, but who knows what kind of knuckleheaded idea they will come up with next.

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10 hours ago, The_Painted_Target said:

Looking forward to the day I can be spotted as a DD and not get chunked for 10k because someone 15km away clicked on me.

Inb4 the solution makes things worse somehow.

When each BB shell weighs roughly 2,000 lbs, with 10's to over 100lbs of that is explosives, and it is traveling at hundreds of feet per second, what do you think it will do to a DD, hmm? Even an overpen of 2,000 pounds of metal encased explosive will do a LOT of damage from kinetic force as it passes through the ship. A 5" tank kinetic penetraor passing through a tank will flip the roughly 5-10 ton tank turret up to 100 feet in air and it only weighs 10 lbs or so. So a 14+ inch projectile weighing roughly a ton will do a LOT more damage. More than one would be bad. At least DDs don't have citadels to make it worse. Removing those was a big buff to DDs.

Edited by Kizarvexis
fixed the amount of explosive in an AP shell
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41 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

When each BB shell weighs roughly 2,000 lbs, around a 1,000 of that is explosives, and it is traveling at hundreds of feet per second, what do you think it will do to a DD, hmm? Even an overpen of 2,000 pounds of metal encased explosive will do a LOT of damage from kinetic force as it passes through the ship. A 5" tank kinetic penetraor passing through a tank will flip the roughly 5-10 ton tank turret up to 100 feet in air and it only weighs 10 lbs or so. So a 14+ inch projectile weighing roughly a ton will do a LOT more damage. More than one would be bad. At least DDs don't have citadels to make it worse. Removing those was a big buff to DDs.

Hello, and I'm sorry to say this, but with that out of the way, SHUT UP. This isn't a simulatorAND THIS HAS NOT A LICK TO DO WITH REALISM, OKAY!?

 

IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH BALANCE! Look below for the reason:

1 hour ago, Slimeball91 said:

Actually, WG outright said BB AP is overperforming against DDs and it is effecting the balance.  Also, WG is now looking at radar and they specifically mentioned focus fire as a problem with radar.  Problems of focus fire from radar, and overperforming BB AP, these two things combined show this isn't a git gud problem, its a balance problem.  At least that's how WG seems to see it.

... my point is made.

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8 minutes ago, legoboy0401 said:

Hello, and I'm sorry to say this, but with that out of the way, SHUT UP. This isn't a simulatorAND THIS HAS NOT A LICK TO DO WITH REALISM, OKAY!?

 

IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH BALANCE! Look below for the reason:

... my point is made.

No :etc_swear: Sherlock, it isn't a simulator. But the damage and pens amounts are still based on real life. In any case, what I have seen people talking about, and what I found happened once in the training room, is an AP shell will get a pen AND an overpen on the same hit. That bug is hiding somewhere in the code and needs to be fixed. Pens and overpens (when the DD is angled or bow on to the point that the AP shell arms) is fine.

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6 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

No :etc_swear: Sherlock, it isn't a simulator. But the damage and pens amounts are still based on real life. In any case, what I have seen people talking about, and what I found happened once in the training room, is an AP shell will get a pen AND an overpen on the same hit. That bug is hiding somewhere in the code and needs to be fixed. Pens and overpens (when the DD is angled or bow on to the point that the AP shell arms) is fine.

Still, it does not matter what YOU OR I THINK, IT MATTERS ONLY WHAT WG THINKS, AND WG HAPPENS TO THINK THAT PENS AND OVER PENS(WHEN THE DD IS ANGLED OR BOW ON TO THE POINT THAT THE AP SHELL ARMS) ARE NOT FINE.

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32 minutes ago, legoboy0401 said:

Still, it does not matter what YOU OR I THINK, IT MATTERS ONLY WHAT WG THINKS, AND WG HAPPENS TO THINK THAT PENS AND OVER PENS(WHEN THE DD IS ANGLED OR BOW ON TO THE POINT THAT THE AP SHELL ARMS) ARE NOT FINE.

True, WG has the final say.

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1 hour ago, Kizarvexis said:

When each BB shell weighs roughly 2,000 lbs, around a 1,000 of that is explosives, and it is traveling at hundreds of feet per second, what do you think it will do to a DD, hmm? Even an overpen of 2,000 pounds of metal encased explosive will do a LOT of damage from kinetic force as it passes through the ship. A 5" tank kinetic penetraor passing through a tank will flip the roughly 5-10 ton tank turret up to 100 feet in air and it only weighs 10 lbs or so. So a 14+ inch projectile weighing roughly a ton will do a LOT more damage. More than one would be bad. At least DDs don't have citadels to make it worse. Removing those was a big buff to DDs.

Sorry to say, but BB AP has nowhere near that amount of explosive filler in them.  Yamato's 18.1" main battery shells are 3,219 lbs.  They have 74.6 lbs of bursting charge in them.  Queen Elizabeth's 15" guns are 1,938 lbs, and have 48.5 lbs of filler.  The ratio you are suggesting is not even close to HE for these vessels, QE has 224 lbs of filler at 1,938 lbs.  Yamato's HE has 136 lbs of filler, total weight of 2,998 lbs.  Just a nit pick.

 

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_18-45_t94.php

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_15-42_mk1.php

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1 minute ago, Iridium81 said:

Sorry to say, but BB AP has nowhere near that amount of explosive filler in them.  Yamato's 18.1" main battery shells are 3,219 lbs.  They have 74.6 lbs of bursting charge in them.  Queen Elizabeth's 15" guns are 1,938 lbs, and have 48.5 lbs of filler.  The ratio you are suggesting is not even close to HE for these vessels, QE has 224 lbs of filler at 1,938 lbs.  Yamato's HE has 136 lbs of filler, total weight of 2,998 lbs.  Just a nit pick.

 

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_18-45_t94.php

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_15-42_mk1.php

I'll correct it. Thanks.

 

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