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dukegrrr81

Which US cruiser line do you recommend?

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Hey guys I'm looking for the opinion of cruiser players about the US tech tree. I almost always play Battleship but have since started working down the cruiser line and am at the Tier 5 Omaha. What is your opinion of the US light vs heavy line? I'm used to having an average engagement distance of 14km and tanking hits. I've heard the light line is pretty much useless aside from the consumables and AA but I'd rather get the opinion of players who use them.

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4 minutes ago, dukegrrr81 said:

Hey guys I'm looking for the opinion of cruiser players about the US tech tree. I almost always play Battleship but have since started working down the cruiser line and am at the Tier 5 Omaha. What is your opinion of the US light vs heavy line? I'm used to having an average engagement distance of 14km and tanking hits. I've heard the light line is pretty much useless aside from the consumables and AA but I'd rather get the opinion of players who use them.

IMO,

The light cruisers are thin skinned fire bugs with 152mm guns with high arcs of fire.

 

The heavy cruisers are not really better armored. They have the 203mm guns and get better pens at shallow angles. They have fairly high arcs, but not as high as the CLs.

 

Both the CLs and CAs have good to great AA and from T8 up, get RADAR.

 

Neither line is tanky.

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You won't be tanking anything in either line. The heavies have some pretty awesome AP that can reliably score citadels on most things and the lights spam HE from orbit. Really though after the New Orleans their play style is pretty much the same. Find an island and hope someone wanders close enough to punish them.

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17 minutes ago, dukegrrr81 said:

Hey guys I'm looking for the opinion of cruiser players about the US tech tree. I almost always play Battleship but have since started working down the cruiser line and am at the Tier 5 Omaha. What is your opinion of the US light vs heavy line? I'm used to having an average engagement distance of 14km and tanking hits. I've heard the light line is pretty much useless aside from the consumables and AA but I'd rather get the opinion of players who use them.

Prefer the heavies although its me least favorite ca nation. The cl are good if you like/can hit ships you lead off screen. The wooster is the real deal, kiting in open water is deadly to bbs if you can do it, plus its a no brainer: i’m detected; i pop radar; i kill dd.

Edited by monpetitloup

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I think my biggest question is, is the light lines AA power worth that trade off for having less effective AP? With the Omaha I pretty much always have HE loaded unless I'm fighting an emerald or something like it with a huge citadel so I'm already used to relying on HE most of the time. I know already that armor on either is pretty much non existent compared to US battleships and tanking won't happen but does the AA capabilities make up for the lack of 203mm guns?

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Depends on what you want. I've no interest in anything above Tier 7 because of gameplay reasons but both Des Moines and Worcester I've heard are pretty good ships. If you like guns with good penetration angles that are really good at damaging and killing cruisers and dealing supporting damage to everything else, go with the CA line. If you like hardcore island camping (even more than with the CAs), racking up damage through a thousand cuts, metaphorically speaking, setting fires and being a big annoyance, go with the CLs.

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My take on the USN Cruisers from tier 6 on up. I've played most of them. Some of them a lot, some not so much and a few not at all. Remember, this is my opinion.

Pensacola; When she was downtiered WG beat her bloody with the nerf bat. She has excellent guns but she can be seen from orbit with the un-aided eye, has glacial turret rotation, and is pretty squishy.

Dallas; A pretty good ship. Her guns are good though floaty like all the USN CLs but once you get used to them you can do some decent shooting. She's more robust than I expected and she seems to have the best AA of any tier 6 Cruiser.

New Orleans: A good bote. Nothing great but not bad either. Good guns and decent survivability. Downtiering her didn't help much but it didn't hurt her either unlike the poor Pensacola.

Helena; A excellent ship. Her guns have the same floatiness as Dallas but she has 5 more. Those 15 guns are great for pummeling anything that's in your sights. She's a lot tougher than I expected and I aint complaining! Her AA is decent but nothing great. I like Helena more than I do Belfast.

Baltimore; She seems to be a pretty good bote though I don't have enough experience with her to make a call on how good she is.

Cleveland; A beast when not bottom tiered. reasonably accurate rapid fire guns and very good AA. She's also pretty tough.

Buffalo; I consider her to be a very good CA. Good guns and decent survivability. Some folks consider Buff to be a lousy ship but I've done pretty good with her.

Seattle; I don't have this bote and probably never will. I've heard nothing good about her and the ones that I've seen in battles didn't impress me.

Des Moines; A damn good bote with a good driver. Sadly, I aint one of those good drivers. Her guns are excellent with a insane rate of fire for guns of 8 inch caliber. Her AA will make CV drivers cry.

Worchester: I have this bote but I've never driven her in any battles yet. From what I've seen and heard, Woo-stah's a Minotaur on steroids.

Remember, this is my personal take on those ships.

Personally, I prefer CLs to CAs. I like the rapid rate of fire that most CLs have and while their AP aint as strong and range as far as the larger guns on CAs, you can still get a lot of cits with them. You just have to be closer to your target.

Edited by ReddNekk
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if you want to go to tier X then

DM is a monster that hugs the island like your wify

Worcester is a scary ATL for tier X

It all depends on your play style and want you want to achieve

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The CL line. The CA line has practically the same ranges, fires more slowly, has less utility, and sinks practically as fast.

In exchange the CA line gets better pen angles on AP.

Is balance komrad.

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37 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

The CL line. The CA line has practically the same ranges, fires more slowly, has less utility, and sinks practically as fast.

In exchange the CA line gets better pen angles on AP.

Is balans komrad.

FIFY  :Smile_teethhappy:

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10 hours ago, dukegrrr81 said:

Hey guys I'm looking for the opinion of cruiser players about the US tech tree. I almost always play Battleship but have since started working down the cruiser line and am at the Tier 5 Omaha. What is your opinion of the US light vs heavy line? I'm used to having an average engagement distance of 14km and tanking hits. I've heard the light line is pretty much useless aside from the consumables and AA but I'd rather get the opinion of players who use them.

I would suggest focusing on building your Omaha captain to at least 14 points before moving up. You really need concealment and IFHE the higher up you go on the light cruiser line. 

Trust me on not moving up too fast it will only frustrate you. Have fun don't make it about the grind.

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11 hours ago, dukegrrr81 said:

Hey guys I'm looking for the opinion of cruiser players about the US tech tree. I almost always play Battleship but have since started working down the cruiser line and am at the Tier 5 Omaha. What is your opinion of the US light vs heavy line? I'm used to having an average engagement distance of 14km and tanking hits. I've heard the light line is pretty much useless aside from the consumables and AA but I'd rather get the opinion of players who use them.

I have all tier 10 cruisers. Except the US CA Salem and the WG’s imaginary Battlebias Stalingrad that is....

Do the Germans. Prob best cruiser line of game. Then look at the French or Japanese.

If you have to do US line it gets tricky. IMO the Des Moines is slightly better than the Wooster. Also, in clan wars Des Moines is a favored ship and you almost never saw Wooster.

The two lines have little in common. The grind to the Wooster is a little more fun than grinding to Des Moines. Wooster line has more dakka dakka fire spam boats. Des Moines line is a little more durable and has superior AP. The Wooster line is completely vulnerable in open water. The Des Moines line is by no means invulnerable but you are not white knuckling the mouse quite as hard in them. 

——————————————

Some odd info to help you understand ( or more likely confuse you, lol) where I’m coming from:

I’m better statistically in the Wooster than I am Des Moines. However I’m better statistically in the Cleveland than the New Orleans.

I actually really like playing Atlanta even though it can get detonated by a gust of wind but the old T9 Baltimore is one of my 2-3 all time favorite ships.

Dallas sucks despite all upgrades from miserable Omaha but Pensacola ain’t bad despite super slow turrets.

Buffalo is great and a worthy successor to old Baltimore but consensus is that Seattle is very poor. I got buffalo for free and will never sell it despite rarely keeping 9s.  Never bought Seattle as it seemed like a poor investment of real time and virtual currency. Just free xp’d past it and have zero regrets.

 

 

Edited by thebigblue

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Both USN CA & CLs fundamentally play the same, but certain differences make them have variances at the same time.

 

Similar:

- Both have floaty shells eventually.  The USN CLs start getting those real floaty shells starting Tier VI.  USN CAs get floaty shells starting Tier VIII.

- The floaty shells both have strengths and weaknesses.  A big problem is that they make gunnery at range harder, especially against Cruiser and smaller sized targets past 10km.  The benefit is being able to lob shells over islands.  However, not all maps have islands you can use to do that.

- Both lines are rather mediocre long range Cruisers due to the floaty shells.  You can install upgrades to increase gun range in Tier IX-X, but it doesn't negate the fact you got very floaty shells that take forever to land at range.  Worcester and Des Moines at Tier X try to offset this with fast firing guns, but their shells still float badly.  The floaty shells make engaging a RU DD past 9km a big, BIG problem.

- Both lose torpedo access past Tier V Omaha.  VII Atlanta and VII Flint have torps, but ATL is a Premium and Flint is an Arsenal Steel Ship / Old Ranked Reward.  Atlanta's torps only go 4.5km.

- Both start featuring Radar at Tier VIII in the tech tree.

- Both start featuring AA.  Tier VI Pensacola for the CAs, VII Helena for the CLs.

- Citadel protection is a concern, as with all Cruiser Lines.

- Both feature mediocre Cruiser speeds.

 

 

Extra USN CL specific strengths & concerns.

+ Starting Tier VIII, unrivaled consumables access.  Radar + Hydro + Defensive Fire at the same time.  At IX-X, they also get Repair Party access.  No other Cruiser Line features this extensive consumables coverage.  Even Tier X Radar Minotaur doesn't get Defensive Fire.  If a USN Radar CA wants Hydro also, it has to slot it in place of Defensive Fire.  If you are a Cruiser player that wants Consumables to answer problems in a match for your team, USN CLs are the best.  You need Radar?  They got it.  You need AA?  You got it.  You need Radar + Hydro access while not getting easily picked off by a CV?  You got it.  You need a Cruiser that can do this stuff without getting spotted from the moon?  You go that also.

+ Tier IX-X they can feature super long range AA, capped with with Defensive Fire.  USN CLs in these tiers are the most dangerous AA Boats in the game.

+ On paper, USN CLs are great DPM ships.

+ Good Stealth Builds in Tier VIII & X.  Cleveland and Worcester in Stealth Build will feature ships that have concealment that matches or is less in range than their Radar range.  This is a big benefit if hunting a Destroyer.  If the DD spots Worcester or Cleveland, that means they are already in Radar range, so no guess work is involved wondering if the DD is in range for Radar range.  Des Moines can try the same thing, but it has a gap in concealment and Radar range where a DD can spot DM and not be in Radar range.

+ The respectable stealth, AA, unrivaled consumables access make USN CLs very good in DD support, especially with Worcester.  But it's a very fine line to dance as if caught, their 25mm armor becomes a big issue.

- In reality, range and the floaty shells at times reigns in their DPM.  Worcester at Tier X kind of offsets the problem due to her sheer reload speed and near-continuous gunfire.

- The heaviest armor USN CLs ever get is 25mm, even in Tier X Worcester.  25mm gets Overmatched by pretty much every BB AP shell there is.  This make USN CLs very vulnerable to BBs, more so than every any other Cruisers out there, except possibly Tier IX and below RU Cruisers which are very soft themselves (but RU Cruisers feature excellent ranged performance).

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_thresholds

25mm armor only needs 358mm or larger AP shells to Overmatch it.  Case in point, go ahead and be a High Tier USN CL spotted in Open Water.  Let's see what your Priority Target counter skyrockets to.

- The massive consumables access is costly to run.  A Tier IX-X USN CL with DCP, RP, DF, Hydro, Radar consumables are very expensive to run.

- To bring the full capability of USN CLs forward, they demand High Points Captains, especially the VIII-X ones.  CE & IFHE are needed.  If you want Full AA Troll against CVs, you also need AFT.  A 14 pt Captain isn't enough to bring the full capabilities out for some of these USN CLs, you need 18pts to have Seattle, Worcester have Stealth (CE), HE Pens (IFHE), and Long Range AA (AFT).

 

Extra USN CA specific strengths & concerns.

+ Very strong AP starting with VI Pensacola.  Starting heavy SHS AP shells access with Tier VIII-X USN CAs.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration#Armor-Piercing

USN CAs are one of the ship types that have favorable bounce angles.  Simply put, a ship that is angled but tries to show all or most of its guns will be vulnerable to USN CA AP because of the favored bounce angles.  Normal Cruiser AP may get bounced with less angled ships.

+ USN German HEAVY CRUISERS start featuring 27mm bows.  Refer to the Armor Thresholds link earlier.  Such bows lets these specific Cruisers bounce up to 380mm AP.  Anything similar in gun size or smaller than Bismarck, Richelieu, Alsace 380mm AP shells will get bounced by the bows.  In the past this wasn't as big a deal to me outside of very specific circumstances.  But with French BBs being added that sport 380mm guns as high as Tier IX, and with the arrival of a "Super Alsace" in Tier X that still has 380mm guns, both French & German BBs with their extensive 380mm reliance has made the 27mm Cruiser bow more valuable than before.

+ The crown jewel of the line, Des Moines, is fast firing.  Worcester shoots faster, but Des Moines is firing much more powerful 203mm shells at base 5.5 second reloads, before Adrenaline Rush and / or MBM3 is accounted for.

+ USN CAs being 203mm armed CAs, do not need IFHE for their HE to penetrate what they need to penetrate.  That's a crucial 4 points that you are not pressured to spend on a specific item.  You'd want AFT and CE as with the USN CLs, but you don't need IFHE at all.  Really, a 14pt captain can make the USN CAs be respectable in stealth and bring their AA to full strength.  The guns not needing IFHE enables this.  14pts for Cleveland and higher USN CLs is not enough.

- While respectable in stealth, they don't have the stealth of Cleveland and Worcester.  This is important in some specific situations as mentioned earlier for intercepting a Destroyer.

- The floaty shells strengths and weaknesses persist as with USN CLs.  USN CAs start having floaty shells the same time as SHS AP shell access at Tier VIII.

- For the VIII-X USN CAS, if you want Hydro, you have to sacrifice Defensive Fire.  An AA Build Des Moines without Defensive Fire is vulnerable to a Tier X CV.

- The 27mm bow is great, but do remember, all those 406mm+ armed BBs will punch right through it just fine and castrate you through the nose.  Even with the 27mm bow, if DM is getting shot at by BBs, she feels the most vulnerable of all the Tier X Cruisers.  Her citadel is very easy to punish.  Oh, Minotaur is squishier, but Minotaur has 8.9km stealth and smoke access.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Their squisiness is overstated by many.  For example, I put a double digit number of 16 inch shells from Missouri into a Seattle and a Des Moines today (LWM was actually in this match, second time in a week).  That's double digits EACH.  Neither sank.  That was inside 15 km and, for half of them, about 10 km an in.  Think about that.  You don't need a cruiser any tankier than that, honestly. 

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If you want a tanky cruiser - pick up the Kron. It's guns ain't nothing like US'es tho - pretty much the opposite.

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Also keep in mind of all the Tier 10 Cruisers the Worcester and DM only have more HP than the Minotaur. So they make up for being floating citadels with Tier 8 armor, by having dumpster HP.

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38 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

Also keep in mind of all the Tier 10 Cruisers the Worcester and DM only have more HP than the Minotaur. 

Guess the Zao doesn't exist.

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4 minutes ago, ThemasterTanker1 said:

Guess the Zao doesn't exist.

Zao doesn't care due to Long Range Zao Lazors with High Velocity gunnery, and Zao Hellfire Shells, topped off with Ninja Concealment Levels.  And of course, Zao recently got Shimakaze's 12km torpedoes :Smile_teethhappy:

Zao don't care.

Zao doesn't give a f--k!  One of the smoooothest playing Cruisers in the game, PERIOD!

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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2 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Zao doesn't care due to Long Range Zao Lazors with High Velocity gunnery, and Zao Hellfire Shells, topped off with Ninja Concealment Levels.  And of course, Zao recently got Shimakaze's 12km torpedoes :Smile_teethhappy:

Zao don't care.

Zao doesn't give a f--k!  One of the smoooothest playing Cruisers in the game, PERIOD!

I was referring to straight up HP numbers, but uh...ok.

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I dislike the CL island humper playstyle.  At least through T8, I feel the CA line is a better open water choice.

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Just now, ThemasterTanker1 said:

I was referring to straight up HP numbers, but uh...ok.

Zao's HP levels are irrelevant.  It can get 35k HP and she will still be a terror at Tier X.  She has tools to be dangerous and the stealth to be slippery.

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46 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Zao doesn't care due to Long Range Zao Lazors with High Velocity gunnery, and Zao Hellfire Shells, topped off with Ninja Concealment Levels.  And of course, Zao recently got Shimakaze's 12km torpedoes :Smile_teethhappy:

Zao don't care.

Zao doesn't give a f--k!  One of the smoooothest playing Cruisers in the game, PERIOD!

I tend to agree, I enjoy the Zao the most but do better damage wise in the Hindenburg, guess it’s because the Hindy shoots a bit further and is more of a brawler .. tougher

as for the US line the lack of Torps past Omaha was a turn off for me so I stopped at Pensacola Back in the day,De moins and the Wurs didn’t exist or I may have changed my mind, they look like fun boats and may yet grind them out

The Cleveland is good with now 6 second main gun reloads and with a decent rudder shift if rigged with that in mind however the 15k+ range is just dumb when facing X ships and the loopy shell arcs are difficult to get used to

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18 hours ago, dukegrrr81 said:

I think my biggest question is, is the light lines AA power worth that trade off for having less effective AP? With the Omaha I pretty much always have HE loaded unless I'm fighting an emerald or something like it with a huge citadel so I'm already used to relying on HE most of the time. I know already that armor on either is pretty much non existent compared to US battleships and tanking won't happen but does the AA capabilities make up for the lack of 203mm guns?

The CLs have smaller guns but a much higher rate of fire.  I don't have the numbers but DPM is probably comparable.  Once you get used to the guns the heavies are probably better ship killers, but the lights are better against DDs.  (Learn to switch ammo as appropriate.)

At this point in your grind, I wouldn't even consider what is at T9 and T10.  Make that decision later.

Considering the next two ships - Pensacola/New Orleans and Dallas/Helena - the CLs are just a lot of fun to play.  And more than a few players consider Helena to be the jewel of the USN cruiser lines.

 

Added:  If you have a 10 point captain, take IFHE and the HE effectiveness will surprise you.

Added:  Don't forget that at T6 your botes become eligible for Scenarios/Operations.  It's a great mode for grinding them.

 

Edited by iDuckman
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18 hours ago, dukegrrr81 said:

Hey guys I'm looking for the opinion of cruiser players about the US tech tree. I almost always play Battleship but have since started working down the cruiser line and am at the Tier 5 Omaha. What is your opinion of the US light vs heavy line? I'm used to having an average engagement distance of 14km and tanking hits. I've heard the light line is pretty much useless aside from the consumables and AA but I'd rather get the opinion of players who use them.

Watch this video. After you do so, you should have an idea if you want to play a heavy or light cruiser. The video really isn't on topic directly, but its fantastic nonetheless.

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I did both lines. Have DM and WSTR. I personally enjoyed the CL line more as the Dakka Dakka made up for the softness of the ships. The CA line was more of a "catch someone being dumb" to make the most of the guns, for me. 

Though I love my Atlanta, so I am sure that is a factor.

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