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BeefBuoyancy

Bots playing craftier today in Co-op / Significant differences in behaviour

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The bots are much more evasive, and "situationally" smarter today. They aggressively cap in Standard Battle when able and not as much mindless tanking/ramming.  

This makes the battle take much longer, so we end up spending more time for the same reduced rewards compared to Random.

Inviting thoughts and discussion on this topic after you have a chance to play a few.

This makes the mercy rule even worse in Co-op when it was already really bad and frustrating.  So we spend more time chasing down enemy ships running away, then if/when their counter hits zero the longer-lasting battle is over with one or two enemy ships left to kill (and the associated benefit of damage and rewards is forfeit).  Just fought a battle where their YAMATO turned tail and ran away.  Had another where 4 of the 5 remaining ships were retreating and having to chase them down in a large map.  Very time-consuming and extremely frustrating if the battle ends because of the mercy rule and no additional damage is scored for the time spent chasing them. 

 

Edited by BeefBuoyancy
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The DDs stop in smoke.

If a ship is being shot at it turns away and runs.

Much smarter bots means players will actually lose once in awhile.

It would be nice to see better rewards for tougher game play, but that won't happen.

 

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In Update 0.7.8, we have further improved the logic of bots in Co-op Battles. The bots will now be more responsive to the dynamic and changing situations of battle.”

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I did see the line for "improving AI" in the patch notes, but I honestly haven't noticed any difference. That being said, if they do make it harder, I agree that they should increase the rewards.

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The rewards will increase when the bots become sentient. WG philosophy, if we make the bots better and we don't improve the rewards, less people will play Co op. People asked for it (better bots). Which just proves that you should be careful what you ask for, wishes always come with a price.

I forgot they upgraded the bots, now I have to go see it for myself.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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In some ways, I don't think they are "better".  Sometimes when confronted, they stop and go in reverse. 

There isn't much easier prey than a ship backing up slowly. 

They are worse for yolo'ing players, because they won't get spread out as much and are more likely to focus fire the yolo'er.

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13 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

I forgot they upgraded the bots, now I have to go see it for myself.

Oh they have, from about Tier 7 and up they are almost smart. And they hitting more often and setting fires easier. BUT the funny thing, from my view the Green Bots AI has not seemed to change - still cannot hit anything.

Edited by Chaos_EN2
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I did not notice this change in bot behavior until moments ago. I was online 4 hours earlier. Now, it takes coordinated human player effort to win. I was in a division and communicating with 3 players and we tried to adjust. Three games later we had three defeats.

I did not want the high intensity in Co-op battle that I can get in Random battles. WOWs should consider the player like myself. Instead of changing my play style they should reward it. There are others that may feel the same.

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Lost a game earlier with the Bot Minsk capping all 3 circles while avoiding detection.  I was shocked, but today is the first time I’ve seen it... figured they’d get smarter at the last update.

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56 minutes ago, ExploratorOne said:

In Update 0.7.8, we have further improved the logic of bots in Co-op Battles. The bots will now be more responsive to the dynamic and changing situations of battle.”

I remember seeing that but they felt like the same brain dead damn the torpedoes bots they always were but today they feel more like there is a human on the other end. I suppose that once we pick on on their triggers we will slap them like always.

 

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The new, improved red bots are a lot more fun.

Unfortunately, MM has been loading up the greens with 3-4 brain-dead AI DD's and the occasional lobotomized green CV, which is only slightly better than a human one.

Not hard to overcome by seasoned players at mid-to-high tiers, but it's playing hell with the poor baby seals.

The epic fail in this is that some genius at WG thinks this is the way to push people into Random. What it really is is the way to make new players give up and quit.

Edited by No_Sky_Cancer
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1 minute ago, No_Sky_Cancer said:

The new, improved red bots are a lot more fun.

Unfortunately, MM has been loading up the greens with 3-4 brain-dead AI DD's and the occasional lobotomized green CV, which is only slightly better than a human one.

Not hard to overcome by seasoned players at mid-to-high tiers, but it's playing hell with the poor baby seals.

The epic fail in this is that some genius at WG thinks this is the way to push people into Random. What it really is is the way to make new players give up and quit.

I was thinking the same thing....

Amazed during my usual 6 am Tier I battle where I blaze away in my Black Swan and get my typical 4 to 5 kills and then start work and had hardly taken a sip of coffee when I was repeatedly wracked with multiple hits and sunk...Took a couple of battles of real concentration to win with only one other live player.

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12 minutes ago, No_Sky_Cancer said:

The epic fail in this is that some genius at WG thinks this is the way to push people into Random. What it really is is the way to make new players give up and quit.

1

WG has the stats about % of players in  tiers 2-5 that are playing co-op as against random. What they don't have is any way of asking those people WHY they are playing co-op as against random. 

Surveys measuring "did you like this battle" give you pretty stock answers that look at your choices within that match but to not look to see why you chose to play that type of battle to begin with.

They should work in a  multiple choice "why did you play co op for this battle as against random" question  - but I'm pretty darn sure WG are so focused on game play within a battle that they can't fathom that somebody wouldn't want to play with as many variables as possible.   Its the classic "We love this - you people that don't just don't understand" approach to tech.
 

 

 

Edited by Anonymous50
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I do notice the bot DDs will smoke fire if there is spotting, and the bot CV sometimes will stay stationary in their spawn.

Edited by Tom_Lin

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1 minute ago, Anonymous50 said:

They need to work in a  multiple choice "why did you play co op for this battle" question.

Totally concur. But even if they were to do a survey of primarily/exclusively Co-op players I doubt they'd take any heed of the results. The mantra is, "PvP good, PvE bad!" regardless of player opinion.

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Yesterday Played one game on CO-OP and we were like WIPED OUT to like 50% within 6 minutes...I thought I was playing on RANDOM for a minute until I checked the SHIP Roster and....it was BOTS!   Oh they were GOOD..and in a sense thats good for us human players...more challenge and not to take the Bots too lightly as before.  I like this NEW SIDE of BOTS.   Will they play the same in the Training Room me wonders? 

Score  - WE LOST

Edited by dionkraft

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I have been saying this for weeks the AI has been adjusted to almost human. We asked for it so we got it! Enjoy!

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I, too, noticed that bot carriers seem to be staying stationary more.  I noticed this when hunting down the carrier as the last one or two bot ships left.  Saw this three times so far.

Edited by Seaneroo
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1 hour ago, No_Sky_Cancer said:

Not hard to overcome by seasoned players at mid-to-high tiers, but it's playing hell with the poor baby seals.

The epic fail in this is that some genius at WG thinks this is the way to push people into Random. What it really is is the way to make new players give up and quit.

I would think that since WG protects the Tier 1 baby seals from experienced players up to Level 11 that WG also protects them from the higher AI bots as well.  There is no way for me to prove that it is just a thought.  Perhaps someone on a re-roll can verify it.

I really like playing the new Tier 9 and 10 bots.  You can deal up some real damage early in the morning when your team is mostly bots and the green bots are mostly potatoes.  Just be conservative in your tactics and you can still win and gain good XP as well.

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With the bots new found intelligence capping is actually important in co-op now. 

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8 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

With the bots new found intelligence capping is actually important in co-op now. 

That's the thing that makes it interesting...the bots are also playing the objective instead of chasing and earlier I had a battle that was the first draw I've been in since I started playing this game. They're a lot better than they have been.

 

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I like more powerful bots. But I think they could be scaled by tier if new seals find them far too difficult. 

I hope they increase the rewards too. 

Around t5 t6 they should start to be somewhat challenging. And maybe T10 be nearing 30-40% loss possible. 

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I actually lost a game in co-op just now.   A bot Omaha was juking all over the place and even was running and humping the border.  It was like it knew where I was shooting before I even pulled the trigger.  My Nagato hit nothing but air.  If it hadn't been for my secondaries and my suicidal dive tendencies, I would've gotten nothing out of the fight.

 

My opinion is for me to go back to randoms, rather than deal with dodging bots for crap pay.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Chaos_EN2 said:

Oh they have, from about Tier 7 and up they are almost smart. And they hitting more often and setting fires easier. BUT the funny thing, from my view the Green Bots AI has not seemed to change - still cannot hit anything.

Oh em gee! So much this.  I commented the other day in a co-op battle that the friendly bots were mentally challenged and the enemy bots were T-1000s.  If you end up in a battle with mostly bots on your team you better hope you're prepared to single-handedly kill the enemy team.

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Can they provide something remotely approaching worthwhile EXP now then?

I'd really like to level my Misaka Captain, but its only playable in Co-op because its stupid secondary range is only 3.1 before AFT and its main guns are flat out useless.

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